Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[steeltowngirl]

Cops and guards opinions in a prison should matter. Yes, the MH staff are the professionals, but they also only see the incarcerated individual a small part of the time. The prison watch staff see him the majority of the day, and see his routine behavior in his normal cell setting. The doc only sees what is presented in the prison doctor’s office. The opinions all have merit.

jmo

 

[susane7]

Now we know why they went all in on the Odinism. KAK/RL etc couldn't explain all these confessions.

MOO

I said in my previous comments here that IMO the defense choose to went with the odinist theory because they had to try to explain the confessions in some way. I still believe it. RA is a nightmare client. I hope today will be a interesting hearing about what the prosecution will say about RL and KL.

 

[grannygates]

I'm really interested to see a timeline for when the prison received the 1K pages, when RA received it, and when he started giving "detailed confessions." Also, who made the copies, where are the originals (and do they match), and did the person making the copies ever say anything to anybody else (coworkers, other guards, other inmates, their own families, podcasters, family members, etc.) about what they saw/read. And especially if they ever taunted RA about the contents.

I believe there are some intelligent and thorough creators working on a timeline. Hopefully it will presented in a way that's visually enlightening.

IMO MOO

I agree, the dates are really important here.

I was expecting some type of master list to be generated of all of the confessions and dates via the last witness, and I believe BR had to give Gull a thumb drive with hours of video to watch. I’m just assuming the door sheets were scanned? The letter to the warden disappeared, of course. Harshman gave an estimate of “61” which was odd to me, like an even 60 didn’t sound as real. I expected a known number. I should come back down to earth and stop expecting organization in this case.

IMO The inmate companions were apparently calling their families on the phone and telling them stuff about RA. I’m not sure how deep this “phone call” investigation goes, but the answer might be found in those recordings (if this Special phone call officer actually wanted to uncover the answer).

all MOO IMO

 

[Salah11]

The box cutter knife that would definitely be unique if that’s the type of knife used. I am assuming it would leave different type of cuts?

The interviewing his daughters friends after some confessions also raises eyebrows.

MOO

 

[statt#1]

What argument negates the confession of a murderer?

 

[grannygates]

RSMB

I’m very interested in this. I’ve even looked at reporting from what look like Pro-RA individuals and haven’t been able to find this or additional context surrounding it. When during the hearings did this come out (who said it)?

The morning witnesses who work at the prison (warden and investigator) discuss how they have to photocopy papers that come into the prison because of K2. They confirm that this includes the opening and photocopying of all legal mail as well.

In the motion to suppress there is also more detail regarding the issues surrounding discovery at the prison.

MOO

 

[KSwizzle]

If he's confessing things that literally only the killer would know, and he was never fed any of that information in any way or form, then what's the point of wasting money on a trial

 

[TTF14]

If he's confessing things that literally only the killer would know, and he was never fed any of that information in any way or form, then what's the point of wasting money on a trial

To abide by the United States Constitution.

 

[grannygates]

If he's confessing things that literally only the killer would know, and he was never fed any of that information in any way or form, then what's the point of wasting money on a trial

If the confession contained hold-back material before the day he received discovery, that’s big. Harshman said there was one that he believed only the killer would know, but was it before or after March 24?

 

[m00c0w]

The morning witnesses who work at the prison (warden and investigator) discuss how they have to photocopy papers that come into the prison because of K2. They confirm that this includes the opening and photocopying of all legal mail as well.

In the motion to suppress there is also more detail regarding the issues surrounding discovery at the prison.

MOO

I understand they have to photocopy things. I’m specifically talking about 1,000 pages of discovery being released to RA. You and others have said this came out at the hearing. I’m curious who said this specific thing so I can try to find more context to understand why this would have been allowed.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

@sunshineray

"MS also mentioned this in tge podcast I just posted. Aine said he was glaring back at a lot of people and at one point held her gaze. She said it made her think is this what the girl's last saw? She also noticed him staring at the victim's family members. Aine used the words, it was very odd behavior."

It was the lady from MS that brought it up on TVCOURT - so the same one.

Ok then it was someone else too because they mentioned they were sitting right next to the families, Aine was on the other side of the courtroom.

 

[KSwizzle]

To abide by the United States Constitution.

If it's a legitimate confession not under duress and before the defense had discovery what does it violate? He willingly confessed

Now if you want to say he wasn't of sound mind I get that but otherwise....

 

[Megnut]

If he's confessing things that literally only the killer would know, and he was never fed any of that information in any way or form, then what's the point of wasting money on a trial

It would appear that the Defense and the defendant don't share the same agenda.

JMO

 

[TTF14]

If it's a legitimate confession not under duress and before the defense had discovery what does it violate? He willingly confessed

Now if you want to say he wasn't of sound mind I get that but otherwise....

He can't be forced to plead guilty no matter what he says. He can change his plea if he wants to.

 

[AugustWest]

What argument negates the confession of a murderer?

Since false confessions are the number one cause of wrongful convictions in homicide cases, there are plenty of exonerees to ask.

Fact Sheet | False Confessions

 

[gremlin444]

@grannygates

#189 : "Oh man, this is why I hate that we can’t watch the hearings ourselves and we’re forced to listen to these podcasters trying to create drama to sell their shows. No one else who was present has reported that story or claim. MOO"

Couldn't agree with you more!

When it comes to the trial we are only going to get the highlights, summaries or what stood out most of all on the day rather than everything as it unfolds without anything being filtered.

@grannygates

#189 : "Oh man, this is why I hate that we can’t watch the hearings ourselves and we’re forced to listen to these podcasters trying to create drama to sell their shows. No one else who was present has reported that story or claim. MOO"

Couldn't agree with you more!

When it comes to the trial we are only going to get the highlights, summaries or what stood out most of all on the day rather than everything as it unfolds without anything being filtered.

Just a clarification--

In the video from Court TV last night, it was Susan Hendricks--author of Down the Hill who had a long career as a broadcast anchor on HNL and CNN--who talked about sitting with the families in court yesterday and noticing RA turn and glare. I don't see listed any podcast anywhere that she is in charge of when I search the different platforms, just ones where she has been interviewed over the years.

Sharing at the time stamp where she is talking about this:

 

[grannygates]

I understand they have to photocopy things. I’m specifically talking about 1,000 pages of discovery being released to RA. You and others have said this came out at the hearing. I’m curious who said this specific thing so I can try to find more context to understand why this would have been allowed.

JMO

You would need to find the notes on the warden and the investigator. There are organized law-focused places where you can find this. The prison photocopies every piece of paper including legal mail because of the K2/drugs. Unfortunately we don’t have transcript yet so I cant just send you the line but the context and reason why is in those testimonies (the drugs)

 

[Henry2326]

Just a clarification--

In the video from Court TV last night, it was Susan Hendricks--author of Down the Hill who had a long career as a broadcast anchor on HNL and CNN--who talked about sitting with the families in court yesterday and noticing RA turn and glare. I don't see listed any podcast anywhere that she is in charge of when I search the different platforms, just ones where she has been interviewed over the years.

Sharing at the time stamp where she is talking about this:

I just watched....Thanks for sharing.
Susan Hendricks also said that there was testimony that Richard Allen said he was sorry for killing Abby (9:24 in recording), but had no words about Libby. Wonder why? Wonder if there was a connection with Libby, but Abby wasn't supposed to be there. Wonder if this wasn't a chance meeting? IMO

 

[gremlin444]

I'm going to bring this back from the last thread. On the Indiana.gov website there is a link to document that discusses the rules being set up for a pilot program for copying inmate Legal mail (which had been exempt from copying before then) on page 4:

https://www.in.gov/idoc/files/ED-20-30-Offender-Correspondence-6-16-2020.pdf

I can't find any list of which facilities participated/are participating in the program. However, items that seem to address some of the questions I've seen here:

BBM
"2. Legal Mail or Privileged Correspondence shall be distributed to offenders at a designated location within the facility.
3. Legal Mail or Privileged Correspondence shall be opened in the presence of an offender and inspected for contraband and prohibited property.
5. If the mail is believed to be unadulterated, an on-site designated copier shall be used to make the offender an accurate, legible copy of the Legal Mail or Privileged Correspondence. The offender must be present for the copying.
6. The offender will sign State Form 11984, acknowledging receipt of an accurate copy of their Legal Mail or Privileged Correspondence.
7. The original mail shall be shredded in the presence of the offender."

 

[TTF14]

I'm going to bring this back from the last thread. On the Indiana.gov website there is a link to document that discusses the rules being set up for a pilot program for copying inmate Legal mail (which had been exempt from copying before then) on page 4:

https://www.in.gov/idoc/files/ED-20-30-Offender-Correspondence-6-16-2020.pdf

I can't find any list of which facilities participated/are participating in the program. However, items that seem to address some of the questions I've seen here:

BBM
"2. Legal Mail or Privileged Correspondence shall be distributed to offenders at a designated location within the facility.
3. Legal Mail or Privileged Correspondence shall be opened in the presence of an offender and inspected for contraband and prohibited property.
5. If the mail is believed to be unadulterated, an on-site designated copier shall be used to make the offender an accurate, legible copy of the Legal Mail or Privileged Correspondence. The offender must be present for the copying.
6. The offender will sign State Form 11984, acknowledging receipt of an accurate copy of their Legal Mail or Privileged Correspondence.
7. The original mail shall be shredded in the presence of the offender."

Thank you!