Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[susiQ]

Video start image: First time, I'm seeing RA with a fully buttoned overall and with his hands holding down, not to his breast. He looks quite normal.

RBBM
Yes, it’s amazing what can happen when you treat someone like a human being and not an animal. JMO

 

[grannygates]

I for one would be interested in hearing her opinion on a crime scene staged to look like a ritual killing as
opposed to actually be an actual ritual killing.

Absolutely. I’m hoping I’m wording this right but I’m curious if she is able to give detail as to what the knowledge-level, experience, etc the person who created this crime scene had in this religion. IE Was it very novice, did it show some advanced understanding, etc. MOO

 

[TTF14]

I don't know what it is about, but if JG has been in receipt of these motions you listed since APRIL and MAY -- why is it JULY and still "under advisement"? Does she need to rule on these or not? If so, by when? If not, does she need to issue a "denied without hearing" or something? I'm not a lawyer....

The motions were filed in April and May, and this week's three days of hearings are to argue those motions. So far, with all of them that have been argued, she hasn't ruled on any of them, but has taken them under advisement and will, hopefully, rule on them soon.

IMO MOO

 

[photographer4]

Maybe Carter was right, the perp had an ounce of conscience. Possibly dressing Abby, posing them, covering them with a blanket of leaves, sticks, if there was any way to interpret the crime scene thusly. But RA may indeed have an ounce of conscience, highly self-centered but that's why it's not more than an ounce. He's worried about his soul, eternity...

Consider: once RA made these confessions, the Defense could have conferred with their client, and moved to change his plea to guilty. Move to sentencing.

Imagine confessing to a crime you did commit and no one supports you. Your attorneys won't hear it, your wife hangs up on you. You confess to anyone in your limited orbit, you write to still others. You want to get it off your chest so you can focus on the relief of the next life. But nobody will listen to your confessions.

I can't get my head around this! We wish guilty suspects would own it and plead guilty and here's one who wants to confess. Who are his attorneys to go against that? Maybe THAT was RA's torment. He's talking and no one's listening.

Just like these attorneys FALSELY represented to SCION that they were ready for trial, it's no jump to imagine they FALSELY represented to RA that he NEEDED them to keep representing him.

I'm sorry. I think they had/have an ETHICAL responsibility to help him navigate a guilty plea. They should have done that months/nearly years ago.

My prediction: RA will now plead guilty or be found guilty, he'll be sentenced to LWOP or the DP. He won't care. Like so many convicts, he will have found Jesus. He'll adjust to life in prison, still segregated for his own safety. He will never have more than an ounce of conscience but it will serve HIM well. He'll forgive himself, imagine he's been forgiven, will justify what he likes, and rely on the promise of On The Other Side.

He'll do fine in prison, after sentencing, provided he is protected from "prison justice". He'll have Prison Jesus, he'll have meds, he'll have routines, he might still have his wife, if she can't break free of a lifetime of what I'd call encoding, her whole adulthood bonded to him, codependency mistaken for fidelity.

I never went to law school, not even for a day, but it has to be that sometimes the right thing for a defendant is to navigate his guilty plea, especially if he wants it.

His attorneys have created a circus, supplantimg their questionable best interest against their client's confessed one. For whom are they working?

JMO

It is entirely possible RA is making whatever statements verbally and in writing to everyone and their brother, but NOT to his lawyers ya know. Unless he instructs them to find a deal / accept an offer of a deal, they really cannot do this. They take their direction from him. They can't take direction from the rest of his family, the doctors, staff at the facility etc. They can't do anything unless he's in agreement with them, or asks them to. So this may not be a failing on their part IF they believe he is guilty (which they do not seem to - at least to the general public). This may be a game RA is playing. I don't personally think its a game, or that his "confessions" are really valid (yet) as I'm catching up and have not heard what he is meant to have said or to whom, in what context, under what mental conditions etc as yet.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I for one would be interested in hearing her opinion on a crime scene staged to look like a ritual killing as
opposed to actually be an actual ritual killing.

Also,if the Defense is saying that the timing is inaccurate as far as what has been established, does this expert believe that the bodies were placed in that area in the Middle of the night and then the ritual took place?

Or, were the girls taken elsewhere and brought back alive at night and THEN a ritual took place in pitch darkness? But, somehow these Heathens were able to make an elaborate set with ritualistic symbols?

Can someone please tell me exactly what the defense is saying?

Make it make sense please!

 

[grannygates]

Also,if the Defense is saying that the timing is inaccurate as far as what has been established, does this expert believe that the bodies were placed in that area in the Middle of the night and then the ritual took place?

Or, were the girls taken elsewhere and brought back alive at night and THEN a ritual took place in pitch darkness? But, somehow these Heathens were able to make an elaborate set with ritualistic symbols?

Can someone please tell me exactly what the defense is saying?

Make it make sense please!

I don’t think this is the right expert for that. She was just testifying about what the crime scene might say about the killers. I think that other experts would have to help fill in the timeline with other evidence. (The issue surrounding the cell phone being turned on at 4 AM and receiving text messages was mentioned)

We do know as of this morning that the autopsy did not indicate a time of death, so I’m not sure what actual evidence the prosecution is using to support their timeline.

MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

MOO Autopsy has no time of death so that’s why Holeman created his own IMO

Is that a factual statement?
I am truly interested in discussing the case facts here.

 

[photographer4]

I also would like to make note that the podcaster (when trying to form their narrative) said that the important date surrounding the confessions was his “come to Jesus moment”?

IMO A more important event (MAR 24 I believe) was when the prison received 1,000 pages of discovery, which some person (a trustee? A guard?) photocopied before giving to RA.

This was also the time span that the Dr referred to in her notes as a “psychotic process”.

it was also discussed that other members of the mental health team did see and meet with RA as well. So there is some opportunity to see if others corroborate the notes here.

The Dr said that the prison itself has a policy that a person may not exceed more than 30 days in solitary. The exception is extreme violence. The Dr said “that isn’t Rick”. RA was also diagnosed as “SMI” serious medical. I believe this is the lawsuit regarding IPAS Vs IDOC, and the SMI label, for those who want to read it.

Indiana Protection and Advocacy Services (IPAS) Commission v. Commissioner, Indiana Department of Correction 1:08-cv-01317 (S.D. Ind.) | Civil Rights Litigation Clearinghouse

index,follow

clearinghouse.net

All MOO IMO just my opinion

As I catch up, I was just wondering, why on earth would someone PHOTOCOPY the disclosure intended for RA? I assume that the disclosure was already a copy made by his lawyers, no? If so, why would anyone need to make a COPY to give RA? Where was the original (sent to RA) then held? By whom? Why?

 

[grannygates]

Is that a factual statement?
I am truly interested in discussing the case facts here.

It is a factual statement that was discussed in the court hearing today. You may refer to the notes that were posted from the reporter who attended the morning session. Holeman will testifying soon and I hope that we receive more information about what evidence he used to create his time of death.

 

[photographer4]

The motions were filed in April and May, and this week's three days of hearings are to argue those motions. So far, with all of them that have been argued, she hasn't ruled on any of them, but has taken them under advisement and will, hopefully, rule on them soon.

IMO MOO

Ty. Does she have some sort of legal timeline she must following in regards to issuing a ruling on these?

 

[photographer4]

I don’t think this is the right expert for that. She was just testifying about what the crime scene might say about the killers. I think that other experts would have to help fill in the timeline with other evidence. (The issue surrounding the cell phone being turned on at 4 AM and receiving text messages was mentioned)

We do know as of this morning that the autopsy did not indicate a time of death, so I’m not sure what actual evidence the prosecution is using to support their timeline.

MOO

Your post made me wonder, under what circumstances would forensics NOT be able to come up with an estimated time of death? I could understand if a body was out in the elements for months, years etc that they may only come up with probably between X year and X year... likely in X months (based on clothing worn by / near a deceased, if such are available). But when a body (in this case LG and AW's bodies) were found so close to the time when they were taken by someone, what would make it hard to guess at a time of death / provide estimate of same?

 

[TTF14]

Ty. Does she have some sort of legal timeline she must following in regards to issuing a ruling on these?

That I don't know! Maybe someone else who does know can chime in?

 

[grannygates]

As I catch up, I was just wondering, why on earth would someone PHOTOCOPY the disclosure intended for RA? I assume that the disclosure was already a copy made by his lawyers, no? If so, why would anyone need to make a COPY to give RA? Where was the original (sent to RA) then held? By whom? Why?

I have heard of this outside of this case because inmates were getting letters from friends etc and the pieces of paper had been soaked in K2 or this type of drug. So to stop that, the prison started photocopying all the papers that went through to the inmates.

I assumed that legal papers would be exempt from that, but it was said yesterday that people would send in papers and pretend like it was from law office but really it’s drugs, so they had to start photocopying all papers including all legal papers.

MOO

 

[photographer4]

I said in my previous comments here that IMO the defense choose to went with the odinist theory because they had to try to explain the confessions in some way. I still believe it. RA is a nightmare client. I hope today will be a interesting hearing about what the prosecution will say about RL and KL.

Respectfully, I've lost track of the initials in this case - I believe RL is the owner of the property where the girls were eventually found? But who might KL be pls and thanks? Any hints appreciated.

 

[photographer4]

I agree, the dates are really important here.

I was expecting some type of master list to be generated of all of the confessions and dates via the last witness, and I believe BR had to give Gull a thumb drive with hours of video to watch. I’m just assuming the door sheets were scanned? The letter to the warden disappeared, of course. Harshman gave an estimate of “61” which was odd to me, like an even 60 didn’t sound as real. I expected a known number. I should come back down to earth and stop expecting organization in this case.

IMO The inmate companions were apparently calling their families on the phone and telling them stuff about RA. I’m not sure how deep this “phone call” investigation goes, but the answer might be found in those recordings (if this Special phone call officer actually wanted to uncover the answer).

all MOO IMO

I'm very troubled to learn that RA had inmate "companions" assigned to sit outside his cell? What possible training might they have / had (if any) that would enable them to perform this type of work? Does anyone happen to know?

 

[photographer4]

I'm very troubled to learn that RA had inmate "companions" assigned to sit outside his cell? What possible training might they have / had (if any) that would enable them to perform this type of work? Does anyone happen to know?

Actually, while I'm here, how were they selected against other possible inmate companions? What made whomever was given this job the perfect candidate? Just curious.

 

[photographer4]

The box cutter knife that would definitely be unique if that’s the type of knife used. I am assuming it would leave different type of cuts?

The interviewing his daughters friends after some confessions also raises eyebrows.

MOO

RA worked at CVS - I was just wondering, all the talk of the box cutter that I'm catching up on - how common would they be for any of the employees of a store like CVS or Walmart / Target etc? If one was used on the kids how would this tie directly to RA vs anyone else who may have used one for work / hobbies / moving etc? I hope there is more info on this matter.

 

[photographer4]

What argument negates the confession of a murderer?

Not sure what argument we're talking about here, but I wanted to point out that many people have been wrongfully imprisoned as a result of false confessions that were used to help put them in prison for crimes they didn't commit. False Confessions Happen More Than We Think - Innocence Project

I don't think we can really hang our collective hat on his "confessions" without knowing a whole lot more about them imo.

 

[grannygates]

I'm very troubled to learn that RA had inmate "companions" assigned to sit outside his cell? What possible training might they have / had (if any) that would enable them to perform this type of work? Does anyone happen to know?

Yes it is talked about with some details by the warden, the internal affairs officer and the psychologist who testified yesterday. The warden said that they do not do any sort of background check on the inmate companions regarding their charges etc but they are the trustee inmates. They get time off their sentences if they get useful information. IMO It’s basically a jail house snitch program lol

The psychologist said that she was against the inmate companions because they are not allowed to speak to the person that they are watching. This was an issue from the beginning, as the inmates were constantly breaking the rules and talking to RA, asking questions, spreading this around other inmates and telling their friends at home.

MOO

 

[TTF14]

RA worked at CVS - I was just wondering, all the talk of the box cutter that I'm catching up on - how common would they be for any of the employees of a store like CVS or Walmart / Target etc? If one was used on the kids how would this tie directly to RA vs anyone else who may have used one for work / hobbies / moving etc? I hope there is more info on this matter.

Without the actual box cutter, I don't think they'd be able to prove that.

IMO MOO