Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[AugustWest]

Here is the IDOC guidelines that pertain to discovery, access to counsel, and access to legal services for inmates:

https://www.in.gov/idoc/files/policy-and-procedure/policies/00-01-102-Access-to-Courts-11-1-2022.pdf

 

[TTF14]

Yeah. the “testifying for money” was brought to immediately like Nick and everybody else working this case aren’t also being paid to be here. MOO

It gets said about every expert in every trial I've ever followed.

Nobody should be expected to work for free.

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

I am wondering why you are not surprised that an autopsy does not contain an estimated time of death?

Because I don't think they could figure out the time of death. I think the timeline is all off.

MOO

 

[TTF14]

From: https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-murders-expert-reveals-details-about-girls-deaths/

“In my opinion, this was a textbook ritual murder. It has all the elements listed there,” Perlmutter testified. Perlmutter also testified that she was positive that the sticks were placed in a ritualistic manner and not with the intention of covering up or hiding the body.

When asked by the prosecution, “If the defendant made a statement that the branches were there and he tried to cover the bodies with them, would that change your mind,” Perlnutter said no.

Prosecutor McClure noted that Perlmutter was paid to testify and has no official blood splatter training.

Note by me: the expert's list of "things you find in ritual murders" included "atypical blood splatter," which is why the prosecutor wanted to note this.

Also:

The prosecutor also pointed out that Perlmutter went on CourtTV and said that the killing was a ritual killing last November. But she testified today she did not see any evidence or any crime scene photos until this April. The prosecutor pointed out she made the determination that Libby and Abby were ritualistically killed on CourtTV before seeing evidence in the case.

Maybe she based her television appearance opinion on diagrams she was shown of the bodies?

 

[tlcya]

Are you saying that this highly qualified woman is making this up, putting her reputation on the line, all for money? Dawn Perlmutter, Ph.D.

I don't know Perlmutter or her reputation, simply based off the notes that were posted about her testimony I am saying I don't believe what she is selling. As is my prerogative.

 

[Yemelyan]

Maybe she based her television appearance opinion on diagrams she was shown of the bodies?

She did. The first thing she says is that she formed her opinions as expressed on the television show based on secondhand information.

Now that she is an expert witness for the defense, one would expect she has seen discovery information. The question is, how much of her opinion would have been formed beforehand.

 

[TTF14]

She’s hardly impartial or unbiased given her expertise heavily leans toward religious terrorism and ritualistic crimes. Just what the D was looking to find….

​

Well, yes. I wouldn't expect them to find an expert in, say, geofencing, to support their theory that the evidence shows this was a ritualistic pagan sacrifice with a knife.

 

[ClearAhead]

I would hope that to be the case but I think the main focus of this particular one is going to be the confessions though. Unless you have an opinion on what you feel is the supporting evidence that strongly implicates the guilt of one person in this case? IMO

I’m waiting for the trial to learn of the P’s evidence BARD but I haven’t seen anything the D has suggested so far that leads me to conclude he’s innocent. That somebody else “might” be guilty isn’t enough for me and for that reason I don’t think the defense tactics will be successful, they’re merely an annoying distraction. MOO

 

[TTF14]

She did. The first thing she says is that she formed her opinions as expressed on the television show based on secondhand information.

Now that she is an expert witness for the defense, one would expect she has seen discovery information. The question is, how much of her opinion would have been formed beforehand.

Or, her initial opinion based on secondhand information was only solidified when she saw the actual evidence. I am not sure what the issue is here.

 

[Ravenmoon]

It gets said about every expert in every trial I've ever followed.

Nobody should be expected to work for free.

IMO MOO

Even podcasters?

I agree that people deserve compensation for the work that they do.

Even podcasters that dedicate time and effort.
JMO

 

[Yemelyan]

Or, her initial opinion based on secondhand information was only solidified when she saw the actual evidence. I am not sure what the issue is here.

IMO, it's a question that has to be asked. The judge, or jury if it gets that far, can take it into consideration.

 

[grannygates]

She’s hardly impartial or unbiased given her expertise heavily leans toward religious terrorism and ritualistic crimes. Just what the D was looking to find….

​

This is an expert. She has a significant educational and professional background in this subject so she can provide expert testimony. I’m assuming that the prosecution is also consulting experts and would be able to cross examine or put their own expert on to provide their opinion of the crime scene.

 

[photographer4]

Yes, I had another transcribed post but the thread closed and it went poof along with it. LOL

According to Dr. W. she did get a phone for RA to call his wife and dialed the number and left the room. RA spoke for a minute and when Dr. W came back in he asked her to call his wife back and to stay and listen to the conversation, which she did.

His family did not want RA to confess, kept discouraging him from confessing, including hanging up on him when he talked about it and finding God, and wanted him to fight the charges. They kept saying he had been brain washed, etc.

I'm linking again because of the new thread. This happens at approx 1:02 mark.

Murder Sheet

Just out of curiosity though, if this was a loved one for anyone here, who was accused in this horrible crime, and you were the person receiving your loved one's call - what would you do / say if they started to "confess" to you over the phone?

Remember too, its possible that the D may have advised the family / friends to hang up in the event of such calls from RA. They may have cautioned them NOT to further any such discussion. I would do this if I were representing an accused. I'd advise his loved ones to end such calls immediately so as to prevent them from being used against him.

I do not think that his wife can be made to testify against him, but how about his mother or anyone else he may have "confessed" to? I'm not aware of what he is supposed to have said, and am using the term lightly until I know a whole lot more (catching up, so forgive me if this is known already).

 

[photographer4]

@grannygates

#189 : "Oh man, this is why I hate that we can’t watch the hearings ourselves and we’re forced to listen to these podcasters trying to create drama to sell their shows. No one else who was present has reported that story or claim. MOO"

Couldn't agree with you more!

When it comes to the trial we are only going to get the highlights, summaries or what stood out most of all on the day rather than everything as it unfolds without anything being filtered.

Post trial, are people going to be able to apply for the transcripts from court? These will lack things such as non-verbal communication of course, but will at least give the full story of who said what, when, in what context etc? Should we expect the social media content creators to obtain these and put them on their websites?

 

[grannygates]

Even podcasters?

I agree that people deserve compensation for the work that they do.

Even podcasters that dedicate time and effort.
JMO

There are lots of podcasters and reporters who are covering this case in an honest and ethical manner, not scrubbing information from their broadcasts to push a specific narrative and intentionally misinform their listeners.

I believe those honest people absolutely should be compensated for their time and work to share this information with us.

Without them, we wouldn’t know what was happening in the court room.

MOO

 

[grannygates]

Post trial, are people going to be able to apply for the transcripts from court? These will lack things such as non-verbal communication of course, but will at least give the full story of who said what, when, in what context etc? Should we expect the social media content creators to obtain these and put them on their websites?

The transcripts from these hearings should be out in a couple weeks so we’ll be able to read everything that’s happening in these court hearings. There are people who have already collected money to buy them and will be sharing with the public MOO

 

[photographer4]

Okay - maybe someone here can help me... from my notes:
*State’s Motion for Admissibility (filed May 6, 2024) [will be discussed on 8/1]
*Defense Motion to Suppress Second Statement (filed April 15, 2024) [Under Advisement/7/31/24]
*State’s Objection to Defendant’s Motion to Suppress (filed April 15, 2024) [Under Advisement/7/31/24]
*Defendant’s Motion to Compel & Motion for Sanctions (filed April 23, 2024) [Under Advisement/7/30/24].
*Defendant’s Motion to Vacate Safekeeping Order (filed May 13, 2024) [Under Advisement/7/30/24].
*State’s Motion in Limine (filed April 28, 2024)
*Defense Response to State’s Motion in Limine
*Defendant’s Second Motion to Dismiss (filed May 20, 2024) [Under Advisement/7/30/24/withdrawn by defense/7/31/24]
*State’s Response to Defendant’s Second Motion to Dismiss (filed June 9, 2024) [Under Advisement/7/31/24]

The bold in red - does anyone know what the Motion in Limine is about? Have they discussed this yet - as an article posted on the closed thread said:
1 more day of hearings in Delphi. Today the prosecutor is asking the judge for the ability to keep information from the jury. They want to suppress statements by the defense team that points to an alternate theory that someone else committed the murders.

Which I believe is the #1 item in my list above.

TIA if anyone can help!

I don't know what it is about, but if JG has been in receipt of these motions you listed since APRIL and MAY -- why is it JULY and still "under advisement"? Does she need to rule on these or not? If so, by when? If not, does she need to issue a "denied without hearing" or something? I'm not a lawyer....

 

[New Penny]

From: https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-murders-expert-reveals-details-about-girls-deaths/

“In my opinion, this was a textbook ritual murder. It has all the elements listed there,” Perlmutter testified. Perlmutter also testified that she was positive that the sticks were placed in a ritualistic manner and not with the intention of covering up or hiding the body.

When asked by the prosecution, “If the defendant made a statement that the branches were there and he tried to cover the bodies with them, would that change your mind,” Perlnutter said no.

Prosecutor McClure noted that Perlmutter was paid to testify and has no official blood splatter training.

Note by me: the expert's list of "things you find in ritual murders" included "atypical blood splatter," which is why the prosecutor wanted to note this.

Also:

The prosecutor also pointed out that Perlmutter went on CourtTV and said that the killing was a ritual killing last November. But she testified today she did not see any evidence or any crime scene photos until this April. The prosecutor pointed out she made the determination that Libby and Abby were ritualistically killed on CourtTV before seeing evidence in the case.

This is an expert. She has a significant educational and professional background in this subject so she can provide expert testimony. I’m assuming that the prosecution is also consulting experts and would be able to cross examine or put their own expert on to provide their opinion of the crime scene.

I for one would be interested in hearing her opinion on a crime scene staged to look like a ritual killing as
opposed to actually be an actual ritual killing.

 

[TTF14]

Post trial, are people going to be able to apply for the transcripts from court? These will lack things such as non-verbal communication of course, but will at least give the full story of who said what, when, in what context etc? Should we expect the social media content creators to obtain these and put them on their websites?

They are crazy expensive. I expect to see some sort of pooled crowd fund type thing for them all to chip in and share them.

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

I for one would be interested in hearing her opinion on a crime scene staged to look like a ritual killing as
opposed to actually be an actual ritual killing.

Same.