Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[mrjitty]

Not sure what argument we're talking about here, but I wanted to point out that many people have been wrongfully imprisoned as a result of false confessions that were used to help put them in prison for crimes they didn't commit. False Confessions Happen More Than We Think - Innocence Project

I don't think we can really hang our collective hat on his "confessions" without knowing a whole lot more about them imo.

we do know a lot about the contexts now.

this wasn’t under interrogation.

nor are most of them classic jail house confessions to a cell mate.

do the Innocence Project have much data on people who confessed to their mum?

JMO

 

[photographer4]

If he's confessing things that literally only the killer would know, and he was never fed any of that information in any way or form, then what's the point of wasting money on a trial

How would anyone prove that he was fed the information vs offering it on his own accord, without being led to it? There appear to be a few ways a suspect can be subtly fed info that they may later include in their "confessions". EG: asking leading questions vs open ended ones. Here is an example:
LEADING: We know there was a bullet found at the crime scene and it matches your gun! Explain this to me!
2). Three witnesses saw you at the bridge as they were leaving and they said you saw them?

NON-LEADING:
1. Do you own a gun? What can you tell me about it / them? When did you last use it? Where do you typically use it? Have you ever been to X place with it?
2. Did you see anyone else at the trails that day? IF so, what can you tell me about whomever you saw?

NOTE: these are NOT directly from this case, and are only meant as examples of leading vs non leading questions that might encourage a suspect to reply in a particular way.

MOO above but here is a link for anyone interested to learn more: False Confessions, Explained

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Guessing they were waiting for and trying to obtain further instructions.

Prudently.

JMO

Yes it was determined that representatives from Westville were trying to determine what the attorney’s instructions were for those documents. It is stated they didn’t know whether to give to RA in his cell or take him to another room to review the documents.
Attempts to reach defense were made for several days in a row.
It is covered in the States Response to Defense’s Motion to Modify Safekeeping.
Page 5 section 10 & 11.
https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/DelphiDocumentsCombined.pdf

 

[photographer4]

we do know a lot about the contexts now.

this wasn’t under interrogation.

nor are most of them classic jail house confessions to a cell mate.

do the Innocence Project have much data on people who confessed to their mum?

JMO

I don't know actually, but I kinda don't see how it matters who one confessed to given the concern about false confessions in the first place? Someone could "confess" to the pope and I would still question it's validity and ask for proof that the info was not subtly or blatantly provided to the accused in some way shape or form by anyone. I'd take a confession more seriously if the confessor made the confession BEFORE having been questioned / accused / held in isolation etc... MOO.

 

[photographer4]

I think it's safe to say LG didn't expect to meet RA that day, but it's not beyond the realm that RA intended to meet her. "He used their names".

They didn't know him, but IMO he knew them.

 JMO

As I am catching up - did he actually use their names? Oh wait, you must mean in the time since he has been in prison? Why would this matter? We did not know them (I think most of us did not know them anyhow, but who knows)... we use their names all the time? I'm confused. I probably just need to catch way up.

 

[Megnut]

Maybe there is an estimated TOD, in the autopsy report. The autopsy notes might be just that, notes, intended by the author to serve the author. Didn't jot it down, entered it directly into the report. Nature of the injuries, elements, digestion, rigor, insect activity might give some indication. And if no meaningful range was determined, those are good questions for trial.

JMO

 

[tlcya]

most of the instances of false confessions I have heard about were given to members of LE and were given after/during intense and prolonged interrogation, not after arrest, to family members via telephone calls, written on scraps of paper, to random guards and fellow inmates. JMO MOO

ETA and not 61 times and counting.

 

[grannygates]

most of the instances of false confessions I have heard about were given to members of LE and were given after/during intense and prolonged interrogation, not after arrest, to family members via telephone calls, written on scraps of paper, to random guards and fellow inmates. JMO MOO

The trustee inmates are being paid by the prison, the warden, the guards are all paid from the state. So outside of the family, they’re all state actors essentially.

The argument is that this inmate program was essentially a workaround to a videotaped 24/7 interrogation by people employed by the state. MOO

 

[TTF14]

most of the instances of false confessions I have heard about were given to members of LE and were given after/during intense and prolonged interrogation, not after arrest, to family members via telephone calls, written on scraps of paper, to random guards and fellow inmates. JMO MOO

ETA and not 61 times and counting.

BBM
Prolonged psychological torture could produce the same result.

IMO

 

[Salah11]

I do believe he found religion and decided to unburden his soul. Just a shame the people around him then tried to ignore what he was telling them.

MOO

 

[TTF14]

I do believe he found religion and decided to unburden his soul. Just a shame the people around him then tried to ignore what he was telling them.

MOO

Why do you supposed he has sat there for 3 days in court now, not declaring his guilt?

 

[Salah11]

Why do you supposed he has sat there for 3 days in court now, not declaring his guilt?

Because they have convinced him they can get him off at any cost. Clearly his wife doesn’t care that he is guilty either so that must help. He was afraid about the damage a court case would do but she is still there everyday.

It seems like his Daughter has seen sense and has jumped ship. This is based on her not appearing at the hearings and Gary Hughes video.
MOOOOOO

IMO

 

[TTF14]

Because they have convinced him they can get him off at any cost. Clearly his wife doesn’t care that he is guilty either so that must help. He was afraid about the damage a court case would do but she is still there everyday.

It seems like his Daughter has seen sense and has jumped ship. This is based on her not appearing at the hearings and Gary Hughes video.
MOOOOOO

IMO

Has Gray talked to the daughter or is this just his youtuber opinion?

 

[Ravenmoon]

The trustee inmates are being paid by the prison, the warden, the guards are all paid from the state. So outside of the family, they’re all state actors essentially.

The argument is that this inmate program was essentially a workaround to a videotaped 24/7 interrogation by people employed by the state. MOO

They get paid?

 

[TTF14]

we do know a lot about the contexts now.

this wasn’t under interrogation.

nor are most of them classic jail house confessions to a cell mate.

do the Innocence Project have much data on people who confessed to their mum?

JMO

Am I remembering correctly that you're an attorney? Have you ever had a client give a false confession (or later retracted an original confession)? What were the circumstances?

 

[Salah11]

Has Gray talked to the daughter or is this just his youtuber opinion?

He has sources it would appear and his videos are allowed on the forum

 

[TTF14]

They get paid?

Yes. We learned that yesterday.

I wonder if they get bonuses, too.

 

[vinayd]

The trustees take their jobs very serious. I linked an article many threads back about how some are traumatized by the things they see. Calling them “actors” is a stretch. People are on suicide watch and their fellow prisoners are there to provide a lifeline. Sounds humane.

 

[TTF14]

The trustees take their jobs very serious. I linked an article many threads back about how some are traumatized by the things they see. Calling them “actors” is a stretch. People are on suicide watch and their fellow prisoners are there to provide a lifeline. Sounds humane.

Westville doesn't exactly have a reputation for its altruism. These are all convicted felons getting paid to do this job.

 

[vinayd]

In some prisons, people on suicide watch are monitored by peers, not professionals