Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[gremlin444]

As I catch up, I was just wondering, why on earth would someone PHOTOCOPY the disclosure intended for RA? I assume that the disclosure was already a copy made by his lawyers, no? If so, why would anyone need to make a COPY to give RA? Where was the original (sent to RA) then held? By whom? Why?

I've posted the most current documents I could find about it yesterday and today:

Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

Cops and guards opinions in a prison should matter. Yes, the MH staff are the professionals, but they also only see the incarcerated individual a small part of the time. The prison watch staff see him the majority of the day, and see his routine behavior in his normal cell setting. The doc only...

www.websleuths.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

Ritualistic Killing​

Dawn Perlmutter, an expert on ritualist symbols and killings took the stand on Day 3 of the trial. She testified there were 7 indicators of a ritualistic killing including:

• The place of the killing was outdoors.
• February 14 is a sunup to sundown Odinistic sacrificial holiday
• The symbolism of the sticks and body positions were consistent with Odinistic Runes
• Body positioning
• Atypical blood pattern

Other indicators included that the cause of death according to Perlmutter was that the girls’ throats were slit with a sharp object.

“In my opinion, this was a textbook ritual murder. It has all the elements listed there,” Perlmutter testified. Perlmutter also testified that she was positive that the sticks were placed in a ritualistic manner and not with the intention of covering up or hiding the body.

When asked by the prosecution, “If the defendant made a statement that the branches were there and he tried to cover the bodies with them, would that change your mind,” Perlmutter said no.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-murders-expert-reveals-details-about-girls-deaths/

 

[TTF14]

So relieved that this human being will start being treated as an actual human being.

Now, let's get to trial.

 

[katydid23]

My other wild speculation - whoever did this, assaulted girls before. IMO

wrong thread

 

[Yemelyan]

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From Carroll County Comet:

Richard Allen has been remanded back to the custody of the Carroll County Sheriff’s Office. The safe keeping order has been vacated by Special Judge Fran Gull. Sheriff Tony Liggett had no comment if if Allen would stay at the local jail or be transferred to Cass County. Judge Gull said she trusts Liggett to keep Allen safe.

A more important take away from those in the courtroom after hearing crime scene evidence and blood spatter testimony, Abby and Libby fought to the end.

 

[MiniMoo]

Ritualistic Killing​

Dawn Perlmutter, an expert on ritualist symbols and killings took the stand on Day 3 of the trial. She testified there were 7 indicators of a ritualistic killing including:

• The place of the killing was outdoors.
• February 14 is a sunup to sundown Odinistic sacrificial holiday
• The symbolism of the sticks and body positions were consistent with Odinistic Runes
• Body positioning
• Atypical blood pattern

Other indicators included that the cause of death according to Perlmutter was that the girls’ throats were slit with a sharp object.

“In my opinion, this was a textbook ritual murder. It has all the elements listed there,” Perlmutter testified. Perlmutter also testified that she was positive that the sticks were placed in a ritualistic manner and not with the intention of covering up or hiding the body.

When asked by the prosecution, “If the defendant made a statement that the branches were there and he tried to cover the bodies with them, would that change your mind,” Perlmutter said no.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-murders-expert-reveals-details-about-girls-deaths/

I wonder what all 7 indicators are as I'm only seeing 5 and then the other indicators like slit throats.

The girls were killed on Feb 13th, 2017, not Feb 14th, 2017.

Mind you, we are yet to see what the real TOD is when the autopsy results are revealed.

Could still have been set up to make it look like a ritual - staging.

 

[susiQ]

In all his 61 detailed and 40+ random confessions he never rolled on his accomplice. Now that’s insane.

If he’s innocent, there is NO accomplice to roll over on!

The mere notion of someone confessing 61,000 times (I’m being facetious) should tell us there’s more to this than we’re aware of, EXCEPT, now we are! An expert HAS testified to his mental state during that period of time, and it was not good. Likely full-blown psychosis. Why is this so hard for people to accept?! JMHO

 

[Yemelyan]

Fron WANE: https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-murders-expert-reveals-details-about-girls-deaths/

Allen was sitting quietly at the table with his defense attorneys. Occasionally, he would put his right hand on his head and eyes. He frowned and scoffed a few times when the prosecution was making their final arguments.

Also:
When Judge Gull removed the safekeeping order Allen gave a visible sigh of relief in the courtroom.

 

[legalmomma]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1819172612360093773

The blood spatter expert described how Libby’s neck was cut in a way that her carotid and jugular were compromised.

These details, as you can imagine, were hard for the family to hear. Clearly shaken and upset by the details.

 

[MiniMoo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1819172612360093773

The blood spatter expert described how Libby’s neck was cut in a way that her carotid and jugular were compromised.

These details, as you can imagine, were hard for the family to hear. Clearly shaken and upset by the details.

Unimaginably painful, sad and stressful for grieving families to listen to horrendous details like that - that is for sure.

 

[vinayd]

If he’s innocent, there is NO accomplice to roll over on!

The mere notion of someone confessing 61,000 times (I’m being facetious) should tell us there’s more to this than we’re aware of, EXCEPT, now we are! An expert HAS testified to his mental state during that period of time, and it was not good. Likely full-blown psychosis. Why is this so hard for people to accept?! JMHO

I accept his psychosis. Everything he was doing indicates it was a "stress induced psychosis" according to symptoms I see on google. I personally have a family member awaiting trial in county jail and possibly experiencing the same. Bottom line is he did the crime. The state of mind during the crime is what I care about, not the residuals once they are in detention.

 

[AmandaSkis]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1819172612360093773

The blood spatter expert described how Libby’s neck was cut in a way that her carotid and jugular were compromised.

These details, as you can imagine, were hard for the family to hear. Clearly shaken and upset by the details.

Has anyone written what RA’s reaction was to hearing these gruesome details?

 

[Megnut]

Fron WANE: https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-murders-expert-reveals-details-about-girls-deaths/

Allen was sitting quietly at the table with his defense attorneys. Occasionally, he would put his right hand on his head and eyes. He frowned and scoffed a few times when the prosecution was making their final arguments.

Also:
When Judge Gull removed the safekeeping order Allen gave a visible sigh of relief in the courtroom.

He's headed to trial for two brutal murders. Of children.

And he has the gumption to scoff.

Stunning glimpse into how he thinks.

And by 'stunning', I mean 'ugly'.

JMO

 

[Yemelyan]

Live blog: Day 3 of hearings for Delphi murders suspect

For a refresher on the Delphi murders trial and what will be discussed in the hearings, see the “RECAP” section of the live blog. Follow along here for a live observation of the hearing — in and outside of the courthouse. 8:50 p.m. Dueling theories of the case are on full display from the...

wishtv.com

Dueling theories of the case are on full display from the prosecution and the defense.


According to I-Team 8’s Kody Fisher, prosecutors called a blood spatter expert to refute defenses claims that the blood on tree was a painted rune. The blood was a transfer stain and not painted, but the expert couldn’t say exactly who (Libby or the killer) was responsible for transferring the blood to the tree.

The defense’s expert in ritualistic killings firmly believes the mark on the tree was a rune, and the sticks on the bodies represented a rune.

Prosecutors argued that the sticks were in an effort to cover up the bodies.


The defense also tried to blow up the prosecutions timeline of when the girls were killed so they could open up the possibility of a third-party suspect committing the murders.

 

[Megnut]

Has anyone written what RA’s reaction was to hearing these gruesome details?

Well, if he were innocent, it would be something like sadness...

If he's not innocent but had an ounce of humanity, he could respond with sober expression, aware that others at least are hurting.

I don't want to think much about him right now.

I'm saddened anew to hear these new details.

Lives cut short, in brutal fashion.

Heart of stone if that doesn't give you long pause.

JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

They drop it off MAR24 and by APR3 it still has not been given to RA?

Where was it during that time period ?

Total Epic failure on Rozzi & Baldwin

They should have delivered it themselves to their client who is accused of a DOUBLE MURDER of 2 young innocent girls.

Delivered it and gone over it with RA. But they did NOT

Instead they sent an intern/ minion to deliver it

Did they give minion instructions?? Probably not but who knows ??

That was their failure for not doing their due diligence for their client.

But wait--- now they accuse a prison employee of photocopying it.

This was their own failure.

 

[m00c0w]

No. I’m a long time gun owner and I’ve done my own research about ballistics and how unreliable it is. It doesn’t make any logical sense to me personally. There’s no science behind it, no computers etc. Its just some guy looking in a microscope.

I don’t trust that the human eye is capable, with any degree of trusted certainty, of matching a bullet to a random gun using just the ejector and extractor markings.

If there was a control group of 20 guns and a human was able to say which one was most likely, like they do in police-involved shootings directly after the event, I could include that in my considerations. But in this case, it is one gun out of hundreds of thousands of sig sauers in America, so I don’t think that is believable to me on its face, with my own experience and research.

Not to mention the issues regarding who actually found the bullet, how it was found several inches in the ground, several weeks after the crime scene tape was taken down, How long was it in the ground for, why are we supposed to believe that it belongs to this crime and the missing chain of custody afterwards.

Im a far ways off from believing this one.

Although we know this tool mark stuff is allowed in Indiana under Turner. But if you read the case law about that.. eek. I very much disagree with it. but I’m not a judge, I don’t make the rules. i’m just here to talk about them!
All MOO

I guess my thing here is... The cops just managed to find someone who admitted to being on the trails that day, that also owned a matching firearm? Believing in toolmark forensics or not, just those two things together are an incredible coincidence. Start adding in some of the other factors such as description, lack of an alibi... and the only explanation one starts to come up with is that someone had to have decided to frame RA back in 2017, planted the round at some point in the days after the homicides, and then waited several years to spring the trap. For... reasons unknown.

JMO

Edit for clarity

 

[twall]

Has anyone written what RA’s reaction was to hearing these gruesome details?

Not written but spoken on Court TV tonight. Kevin, Aine, Susan Hendricks and Dr. Judy Ho were on the second hour of Vinnie's show tonight hosted by Ted Rollins, watching now live on my TV as it is wrapping up at 10:00 pm so no link yet.

 

[Spartygirl]

From: https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-murders-expert-reveals-details-about-girls-deaths/

“In my opinion, this was a textbook ritual murder. It has all the elements listed there,” Perlmutter testified. Perlmutter also testified that she was positive that the sticks were placed in a ritualistic manner and not with the intention of covering up or hiding the body.

When asked by the prosecution, “If the defendant made a statement that the branches were there and he tried to cover the bodies with them, would that change your mind,” Perlnutter said no.

Prosecutor McClure noted that Perlmutter was paid to testify and has no official blood splatter training.

Note by me: the expert's list of "things you find in ritual murders" included "atypical blood splatter," which is why the prosecutor wanted to note this.

Also:

The prosecutor also pointed out that Perlmutter went on CourtTV and said that the killing was a ritual killing last November. But she testified today she did not see any evidence or any crime scene photos until this April. The prosecutor pointed out she made the determination that Libby and Abby were ritualistically killed on CourtTV before seeing evidence in the case.

Well, now we know where that $12,500 bill R & B are billing the state for is going.
the trip to GA was a nothing burger that resulted in ...Nothing

But they need $$ to pay a so called expert who made a determination PRIOR to even seeing evidence of the murders of Libby and Abby.

SMH and JMO

 

[Caylee Advocate]

The transcripts from these hearings should be out in a couple weeks so we’ll be able to read everything that’s happening in these court hearings. There are people who have already collected money to buy them and will be sharing with the public MOO

IIRC transcripts are quite costly. I want to say maybe $1.50 per page. So, these 3 days of hearings could have a hefty price when it comes to transcription of it all.

Off to see what I can find for Indiana though as it could be less/more. Dunno'