Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[susane7]

I'm listening the MS's episode. They feel Nick did an awesome job in cross examination and discredited the self-expert witness and said even Baldwin said to Nick "good cross, man" lol. Good to see finally attorneys and judges acting cordial with each other.

I think RA is a nightmare client and the defense is trying to do what they have to do. It isn't a easy job. I feel the Franks memo is full of errors/mistakes because many obsessed "sleuths" of social media contacted the defense with theories and the defense went with that and trying to strech even more (that's why they didn't mention the autopsie report, etc). I can see the odinist theory be allowed as a general theory but without the specific names.I I don't see it doing well for defense but who knows what the jury will do. I don't like trials by juries.

 

[katydid23]

How do you think the states theory of this crime was magical thinking ?

I’m very aware of the gossip surrounding the Toth leaking voicemails. MS made very sure to tell that story again tonight. I am just relaying the concerns that people who wish to be informed would have regarding the refusal of MS to actually report the details of the testimony. I found it hypocritical that this podcaster has a prior guest that they considered an expert, but arbitrarily decides this other expert who had a CV a mile long is “garbage” solely because she is testifying for the defense. Not very fair unbiased fact focused if they refused to give any facts.

MOO .

The problem is, this so called expert is claiming that they are an authority, an expert on Odinist ritual sacrificial crime scenes--yet there have NOT been any Odinist ritual killings of people for her to have studied in her lifetime.

It is hard to take her seriously because this legal team is trying to pretend like it is a common thing that a group of Odinists will routinely get together on Valentine's Eve and slaughter 2 middle school girls in a ritual sacrifice.

It is ridiculous and I'm not going to pretend it is something this 'expert' could have routinely seen and 'deciphered.'

 

[FrostedGlass]

I know of a source that crowdfunds to buy the transcripts so I will post them here when they post them !

Please do!

I've been kind of hoping that one of the trusted sources would cough up some $$$ to buy them.

 

[TTF14]

I'm listening the MS's episode. They feel Nick did an awesome job in cross examination and discredited the self-expert witness and said even Baldwin said to Nick "good cross, man" lol. Good to see finally attorneys and judges acting cordial with each other.

I think RA is a nightmare client and the defense is trying to do what they have to do. It isn't a easy job. I feel the Franks memo is full of errors/mistakes because many obsessed "sleuths" of social media contacted the defense with theories and the defense went with that and trying to strech even more (that's why they didn't mention the autopsie report, etc). I can see the odinist theory be allowed as a general theory but without the specific names.I I don't see it doing well for defense but who knows what the jury will do. I don't like trials by juries.

Did MS talk about the BG video and photos of bridge and Abby at all?

 

[Inthedetails]

The problem is, this so called expert is claiming that they are an authority, an expert on Odinist ritual sacrificial crime scenes--yet there have NOT been any Odinist ritual killings of people for her to have studied in her lifetime.

It is hard to take her seriously because this legal team is trying to pretend like it is a common thing that a group of Odinists will routinely get together on Valentine's Eve and slaughter 2 middle school girls in ritual sacrifice.

It is ridiculous and I'm not going to pretend it is something this 'expert' could have routinely seen and 'deciphered.'

If the jury hears any of this, I am confident they will agree with this assessment.
jmo

 

[katydid23]

Did MS talk about the BG video and photos of bridge and Abby at all?

Oh, is that the latest new target---DT is going after the video taken by Abby? That heroic effort by Abby to try and protect herself and her friend? Now the defense is going to try and discredit the video of BG? ...wow...

 

[TTF14]

I am Pagan.
There are a huge bunch of us that are Vegetarian if not Vegan.
Pagan is an umbrella term for a LOT of different spiritual journeys.

Pagan blots are basically antiquated ceremonies, although a small number of groups will use an animal to offer.

They do not and have not sacrificed any human for hundreds of years.

Amber Holder testified today that they would never sacrifice people, let alone children.

Please don't paint pagans as demonic, hateful people.

We love nature and protect it.

All religions have "offshoots." Just look at the Mormons/FLDS. AH testified that PW and BH had a falling out because PW wanted to move on from animal sacrifices. Maybe he wanted to move on/expand whatever type of paganism he followed. I don't think anyone here thinks all pagans sacrifice humans.

It looks really clear to me that these murders were done by a group of people interested in paganism (or interested in staging it to make it look that way). Whether they knew what they were doing or not, I'll wait for the expert at trial. The only question now is just who all was in that group. And was RA in the group/curious about paganism?

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

The autopsy report itself should be interesting when it comes out at trial. Moreso than the autopsy notes discussed today IMO.

RSBM

I agree. Moreso, the testimony of the ME at the trial. We heard in another trial recently (Karen Read) that the ME was heavily pressured by LE to rule a certain way (and she didn't give in). Curious to see if anything like that happened here.

IMO MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

So now we just have “same guy bridge guy”? He is quite the shapeshifter. Aged 30 years in an hour.

Murdering two young teens in an hour could do that.

jmo

 

[mrjitty]

I'm listening the MS's episode. They feel Nick did an awesome job in cross examination and discredited the self-expert witness and said even Baldwin said to Nick "good cross, man" lol. Good to see finally attorneys and judges acting cordial with each other.

I think RA is a nightmare client and the defense is trying to do what they have to do. It isn't a easy job. I feel the Franks memo is full of errors/mistakes because many obsessed "sleuths" of social media contacted the defense with theories and the defense went with that and trying to strech even more (that's why they didn't mention the autopsie report, etc). I can see the odinist theory be allowed as a general theory but without the specific names.I I don't see it doing well for defense but who knows what the jury will do. I don't like trials by juries.

I think the Franks was an attempt at the Karen Read trial strategy.

Amplifying a conspiracy using leaks to podcasters, and use motions to speak to the fanbase - all with the aim of tainting the juror pool.

The problem is Read has much better evidence of LE corruption and she didn't confess 61 times.

Depending on Judge Gull's rulings, they might need to change horses.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Everyone has their own little quirk of a case they get fixated on (who fed those McStay dogs )

For me on this case, it's the darned footnote in the Franks about the rope that the defence claimed might have been used to hang the victim by her feet.

I always knew that was wild speculation, because her hair would be full of blood and there would be ligature marks around her ankles.

But now we know from yesterdays reporting that the defence always knew that was an outright fabrication ... and put it in there anyway.

Where did they get the idea? My guess is 'trusted consultant' MW's mining of social media.

IMO

What exactly is the fabrication? Did they imagine a rope was there or the hanging part?

The hanging part came from a certain person's FB page where there was a pic of a person hanging from a tree.
IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Very interesting to hear that It was revealed yesterday that the FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit looked deeply at this crime and concluded it was NOT a sacrificial, ritualistic killing and the branches were not Odinist runes.

They classified it as an "Undoing". When a killer is undoing, it's them trying to cover up what they've done as a measure of if I cover it up, I never did it. I believe that makes much more logical sense, especially coming from behavioral experts on the subject matter.

JMO

At 15:34 of TMS Day 3

The Delphi Murders: Three Days of Pretrial Hearings: Day Three

 

[Salah11]

The Delphi Murders: Three Days of Pretrial Hearings: Day Three

Additional content warning: This episode contains discussion of suicide. Today in the Delphi case, we attended the final day of pre-trial hearings. It ended around 8:30 p.m. Our coverage of the first day: https://art19.com/shows/murder-sheet/episodes/2c839e4e-6eee-4c56-b185-f7821df89131 Our...

art19.com

So apparently the defense didn’t meet the obligation to present the Odin angle at trial and were schooled by Nick and his cross examinations. So fingers crossed this is the case and it won’t be allowed at Trial.

 

[girlhasnoname]

You’re telling me that I can watch the court TV video and read the testimony of this expert and she will not say anything more descriptive now that she is actually seen the crime scene photos. She will regurgitate her exact same opinion.

But it will have much less of an impact considering she said the same thing without all the case details and any of the crime scene photos.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Oh, is that the latest new target---DT is going after the video taken by Abby? That heroic effort by Abby to try and protect herself and her friend? Now the defense is going to try and discredit the video of BG? ...wow...

That would be a huge mistake for them IMO.

 

[FrostedGlass]

@Niner

There are no new court dates yet for this case.

 

[katydid23]

I don't know. That's why I asked if MS touched on it during their podcast episode. I'd like to hear many people (who were in the courtroom) comment on it to see what they all heard.

That video was obviously taken by Libby, on Libby's phone. I don't know what kind of speculation the DT is going for here, but if they are trying to deny that Libby took that video it will probably anger a lot of people.

The same goes for that beautiful picture of Abby on the bridge, Probably the last picture ever taken of her alive and well. What is it that the DT is trying to imply about that picture 'not being in the camera roll?' That picture was seen by many people on snap chat before their deaths. What is the point the DT is trying to make by claiming it is not there?

 

[katydid23]

I am slightly confused as didn’t Libby shot the video on the bridge?

Yes, she did. And it is one of the most incriminating pieces of evidence in this case. So no surprise that the DT is trying to claim it is 'not on Libby's phone' or whatever their accusation is.

 

[twall]

IMO the video/photo of Abby could have been retrieved from could storage. If not on phone perp(s) may have deleted it. Again, JMO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Baldwin called DP, 'Odin Expert'? On stand 2 hours, she has only testified 3 times in Court ever.

Maybe the D got her at a huge discount at the last hour and I wonder if she will even be able to testify as an expert witness?

JMO