Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[ClearAhead]

I’m not sure if you’ve already seen this filing, but doc has some quotes from transcripts from the interrogation done by Holeman, so you can see the “interrogation method” being used by this investigator. Saying that if RA doesn’t tell him what happened, he’s gonna go down for it. Holeman says he knows that RA is guilty of something and he’s gonna prove it right before he arrests him. It’s pretty interesting seeing the way that this investigator conducts their interrogations.

2024 4/15 suppress 2nd statement .pdf

drive.google.com

What’s the point of discussing the content of a motion that was garbaged?

Who’s to say if it’s even truthful given it was withdrawn by the D before it saw the light of day?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Edit: removing an oops

 

[Boxer]

They are trained. Which is why sometimes I am astounded by the ways in which things they say / do / ask lead a witness or suspect. I mean in general, but would love transcripts at a min or video with audio preferably to assess what RA’s experiences have been to date with the legal system. MOOoO

indiana is a mess of police cronyism. I blame their allowing religion into their secular occupation. That causes them to give positions and promotions etc. based on something else than merit.
Hence the called off search, erased tapes, lost interviews etc.

 

[grannygates]

Also with reading through that transcript of the Holeman interrogation m, it makes me consider the false confession that came from Holeman pulling KK out of jail after his arrest and interrogating him without his lawyer present.

I’d be interested to see those transcripts and know if the red Jeep story came entirely unprompted from KK, or if it came after similar screaming, cussing and threatening that if KK doesn’t provide information that Holeman will just (falsely) accuse KK of it, like he said to RA. “If you don’t tell me, you’re going down for this”.

MOO

 

[grannygates]

That SODDI the someone else did it, and is a standard fearure of defense in that regard, just fancier with a conspiracy Odinists.

Every defense presents some way someone else could have done it if they are defending a not guilty because I did not do it.
There are also "not guilties"
I am not guilty even though I did it because it was justified, or another is I am not guilty as I was "impaired" defenses - "affluenza" for example, I was too rich and priviliged to know that I was doing wrong.

Anyway there is always a presentation of an alternative.

That's why when Suzanne Morphew's autopsy came back with deer tranquilizer which detectives had stated in his original arrest warrant stated was likely used in her murder his defense attorney Eytan immediately said the police better start looking at ranchers in the area, immediately setting up her alternative.

All to say, presenting alternative is fill in the blanks boilerplate, and the jury needs only to gauge its likelihood next to the case presented against the defendent.

indiana is a mess of police cronyism. I blame their allowing religion into their secular occupation. That causes them to give positions and promotions etc. based on something else than merit.
Hence the called off search, erased tapes, lost interviews etc.

The “Odinist” conspiracy is the original investigation, which the FBI still has record of. The FBI and other agencies outside of the unified command did not destroy all their evidence re: the original investigation once RA was arrested, so that was what was discussed yesterday.

The FBI agent that wrote the search warrant for Ron Logan‘s property also included this theory in her deposition. So it is the real investigation that occurred at the beginning of the crime. It’s not made up. It’s directly from discovery. The 3rd parties are real people, not a religion.

MOO

 

[Boxer]

The “Odinist” conspiracy is the original investigation, which the FBI still has record of. The FBI and other agencies outside of the unified command did not destroy all their evidence re: the original investigation once RA was arrested, so that was what was discussed yesterday.

The FBI agent that wrote the search warrant for Ron Logan‘s property also included this theory in her deposition. So it is the real investigation that occurred at the beginning of the crime. It’s not made up. It’s directly from discovery. The 3rd parties are real people, not a religion.

MOO

Searching through the many lines of the original investigation as it evovles is fertile ground for the fill in the blanks SODDI of the delefese.Personally I give it no weight.
That is my opinion.
I will stick with the BARD bar for of Richard Allen.

 

[Boxer]

They are trained. Which is why sometimes I am astounded by the ways in which things they say / do / ask lead a witness or suspect. I mean in general, but would love transcripts at a min or video with audio preferably to assess what RA’s experiences have been to date with the legal system. MOOoO

Right, I should say professional detective's use their training to increase their success.

 

[katydid23]

The uncertainty comes from the fact that there is another way to approach the bridge so this person could’ve simply walked from the other direction.

Roadway at the far end of the bridge appears on Google Maps and If you search directions to this bridge, it will include this roadway as well.

View attachment 522310

I’d go so far as to say he was the only man visible in the video LG took. Is it possible others were at the other end of the bridge? Were they perhaps surrounded? Did they see things we can’t see and can’t know because they’re not here to tell us? : (

Even IF there were others waiting for them , that does not make RA innocent. MAYBE he had accomplices that he does not want to admit to.

But that still means RA is GUILTY of murder.

 

[gremlin444]

I gotta say that I am bewildered by Todd Click's theory of what happened: 1) that the girls either met BH's son at the trails and he took them to the Odinist ritual in progress or they stumbled open it, 2) the girls made fun of the ritual, 3) that enraged the participants in the ritual so they killed the girls.

Even ignoring how that doesn't account for Libby's video.....Click's theory boggles my mind. Grown men participating in a sacred (to them) ritual in the woods near a public park during broad daylight become enraged to the point of double homicide by taunting from two young girls??

 

[Inthedetails]

I was just using my own opinion that if I thought that it was possible that anyone else could have committed this crime (using the info from the original investigation) then I would have doubt as to whether RA committed it.

The jury is restricted to considering only the info that is presented in court. (That is why there is a fight to keep some info in or out of the trial.) If they don't know about Some Other Guy, they cannot consider Some Other Guy in their deliberations.

jmo

 

[grannygates]

The jury is restricted to considering only the info that is presented in court. (That is why there is a fight to keep some info in or out of the trial.) If they don't know about Some Other Guy, they cannot consider Some Other Guy in their deliberations.

jmo

I definitely don’t know nearly enough about the laws to say what the judge will or should allow in, But I have a hard time understanding how they wouldn’t be able to talk about an investigation that spanned the first 2.5 years of the case.

It will definitely be interesting to see how the judge rules. Would a judge actually not allow the FBI agents to testify at the trial about their participation in the case?

 

[Inthedetails]

I definitely don’t know nearly enough about the laws to say what the judge will or should allow in, But I have a hard time understanding how they wouldn’t be able to talk about an investigation that spanned the first 2.5 years of the case.

It will definitely be interesting to see how the judge rules. Would a judge actually not allow the FBI agents to testify at the trial about their participation in the case?

I cannot predict what the judge will allow/not allow in this case. But my point is, the prosecution's job is to prove RA did what he is accused of and the jury decides, based ONLY on what is presented in court.

jmo

 

[grannygates]

I cannot predict what the judge will allow/not allow in this case. But my point is, the prosecution's job is to prove RA did what he is accused of and the jury decides, based ONLY on what is presented in court.

jmo

Oh sorry! I totally misunderstood you!

I definitely agree with that.

 

[sunshineray]

If his confessions are solid and consistent and such, could the judge not just issue a summary judgement of guilty against him and remove his right to trial?? Like if she reviewed herself what he said, to whom, what conditions etc — can she forgo trial in favour of a summary conviction? Not a lawyer so genuine question

Probably not?

 

[Inthedetails]

If his confessions are solid and consistent and such, could the judge not just issue a summary judgement of guilty against him and remove his right to trial?? Like if she reviewed herself what he said, to whom, what conditions etc — can she forgo trial in favour of a summary conviction? Not a lawyer so genuine question

No. His plea right now is Not Guilty, and that is his right to claim. Even though he has confessed multiple times, his plea that he made in court on the record is Not Guilty, and the judge cannot change his plea for him.

He can change his own plea to Guilty, however. I am half-expecting him to do so, tbh.

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

Even IF there were others waiting for them , that does not make RA innocent. MAYBE he had accomplices that he does not want to admit to.

But that still means RA is GUILTY of murder.

Exactly. RA is charged with specific crimes and the prosecution has to prove in court RA committed those crimes.

The defense will work very hard to messy up the case by casting doubt here and there and up a tree, but the jury is there to decide if RA committed the crimes that RA is accused of committing.

jmo

 

[Salah11]

I am a lot more confident after this week that he will be found guilty or he will take a plea at some point.

61 confessions is a crazy amount and the fact some came after he found god speaks volumes.

MOO

 

[grannygates]

I gotta say that I am bewildered by Todd Click's theory of what happened: 1) that the girls either met BH's son at the trails and he took them to the Odinist ritual in progress or they stumbled open it, 2) the girls made fun of the ritual, 3) that enraged the participants in the ritual so they killed the girls.

Even ignoring how that doesn't account for Libby's video.....Click's theory boggles my mind. Grown men participating in a sacred (to them) ritual in the woods near a public park during broad daylight become enraged to the point of double homicide by taunting from two young girls??

Click is offering his idea based on his experience in investigating crimes. Grown men have murdered women for refusing to give them their phone number, so it is believable for a man would murder another person because they felt they were being disrespected. MOO

 

[Megnut]

When RA was interviewed prior to his arrest, LE did not know how he'd respond, whether he'd respond, whether he'd implicate anyone else. IMO LE has the authority to detain/arrest a POI at which time they have cause.

Had RA for example implicated others in a credible way, LE may have pivoted, leaning hard on RA to get to others who wielded the knife/blade/hook/tool/cutter, in which case (if it were true), RA might have ultimately gotten a sweetheart deal in exchange for testifying against the others.

It was reasonable to talk to him, to see how he responded to lines of questioning, crime scene photos if shown, etc.

IMO RA's answers which he supplied voluntarily showed deceit where it mattered most. Akin to an answer for everything even if it doesn't fit the evidence LE had at hand.
.
I don't know this to be true but I can IMAGINE something like this-- a map, showing the timestamps and key individuals. Showing a dot for where and when LE could place him. Then: if you saw this group of juveniles and they saw you, that's at such-and-such time... and if BB saw you, turned, then passed Abby and Libby, how did you not see them?

Was absorbed in the stock ticker on my phone.

Where is the phone that will confirm that?

Oh, that's right, I left before that.

How long were you on the platform? Where did you go from there?

That's how interviews go, the ones I've seen played in trials. Lots of questions, lots of answers, lots of opportunities for a liar to get tripped up. Which IMO is exactly what happened.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

I’m not sure if you’ve already seen this filing, but doc has some quotes from transcripts from the interrogation done by Holeman, so you can see the “interrogation method” being used by this investigator. Saying that if RA doesn’t tell him what happened, he’s gonna go down for it. Holeman says he knows that RA is guilty of something and he’s gonna prove it right before he arrests him. It’s pretty interesting seeing the way that this investigator conducts their interrogations.

2024 4/15 suppress 2nd statement .pdf

drive.google.com

I have seen it thanks! I had this in mind but didn’t recall where it was from or have it handy to link to so thanks!