Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
That was when the Franks was released and Court TV asked her to come on as an expert. She clarified several times (as did Vinny) that it was just her impression of the description in the filing and she had not seen any photos nor any discovery.
So it was like a garbage in, garbage out kind of thing? She decided only hearing one side what her opinion was, just for a chance to be on TV and ratings? Then a few days ago on the witness stand she stuck to her guns even after she was told the "Odinist" men all had alibis and the branches (according to the guy who's confessed over 60 times) were placed to cover up the girls?

She was an extremely bad witness for the defense. Her testimony did not go well at all.
AJMO
 
I just don't understand what you mean? There is video with audio...and it was taken by one of the victims to boot. How is that not actual evidence?
I haven’t seen the full video and I haven’t seen any reference outside of Liggett’s PCA saying that he was seen and heard.

The FBI agent didn’t include that in her search warrant and, outside of the Liggets PCA, I haven’t seen that suggestion appear anywhere in filings. I’m definitely open if you know that it has appeared in a filing outside of referencing the PCA.

My assumption is that if this man was actually captured on video that close-up that you could see him speaking, LE would have used that close up video to try to find him rather than the one they went with.

MOO
 
The uncertainty comes from the fact that there is another way to approach the bridge so this person could’ve simply walked from the other direction.

Roadway at the far end of the bridge appears on Google Maps and If you search directions to this bridge, it will include this roadway as well.

View attachment 522310
Then surely the 'innocent man' who Libby & Abby managed to capture in their video immediately before being told "down the hill" by the 'real killer' would have approached Law Enforcement and Investigators to provide them with a full description of this killer as he MUST have also encountered him.

Instead, RA approaches a conservation officer and nary a peep from him about the true killer on-site or a description of this true killer. Nor the "bunch of other killers/men" waiting at the end of the bridge who the girls didn't care to video/comment on etc. "He's got a gun". NOT, "they've got guns", not "they've got us trapped" etc. One guy. Only one guy.

All these years and he's never approached investigators with this info to give them a true suspect description (he can't claim he didn't know the description [of himself!] of ths 'true killer' 'was off' because we've all seen the photo of him sitting right in front of the crime psoter with the sketch on it. He hasn't even given that critical info to his defence team!

IMO, it's hard to describe an invisibe man.
 
Last edited:
I haven’t seen the full video and I haven’t seen any reference outside of Liggett’s PCA saying that he was seen and heard.

The FBI agent didn’t include that in her search warrant and, outside of the Liggets PCA, I haven’t seen that suggestion appear anywhere in filings. I’m definitely open if you know that it has appeared in a filing outside of referencing the PCA.

My assumption is that if this man was actually captured on video that close-up that you could see him speaking, LE would have used that close up video to try to find him rather than the one they went with.

MOO


See Cyber sleuth's post #798 on the previous page about where it is described in the States Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third Party. Filed April 20, 2023.
 
Thanks. I am familiar with the recent hearings and was asking about the technical term "cleared" and not a second-hand interpretation. Granted, I am being persnickety about the word, but that comes with being an attorney, I guess! I'll assume that this has not been stated by LE.

As far back as 2017, regarding BH there was this statement made:
March 16--"By March 16, 2023, Unified Command member Kevin Hammond wrote that “BH has been cleared.”
(from the memorandum in support of a Frank's motion Adobe Acrobat)
 
As far back as 2017, regarding BH there was this statement made:
March 16--"By March 16, 2023, Unified Command member Kevin Hammond wrote that “BH has been cleared.”
(from the memorandum in support of a Frank's motion Adobe Acrobat)

Thank you so much! That's exactly what I was looking for, at least as it pertains to this one person. I guess we believe the Franks, then, for this purpose?
 
Last edited:
Thanks. I am familiar with the recent hearings and was asking about the technical term "cleared" and not a second-hand interpretation. Granted, I am being persnickety about the word, but that comes with being an attorney, I guess! I'll assume that this has not been stated by LE.
It was testimony, under oath in front of the judge. I wouldn't call that second hand. What was said, testified to, over and over by investigators was none of those men mentioned in the FM as alternative murderers of the girls could be place at the scene, at the time of the murders. They have been checked out, by numerous LE including one of the authors of that Odinists police report and Click himself, and cannot be the killers. That's pretty cut and dry, IMO.
 
Then surely the 'innocent man' who Libby & Abby managed to capture in their video immediately before being told "down the hill" by the 'real killer' would have approached Law Enforcement and Investigators to provide them with a full description of this killer as he MUST have also encontered him.

Instead, RA approcahes a conservation officer and nary a peep from him about the true killer on-site or a description of this true killer. All these years and he's never approached investigators with this info to give them a true suspect description (he can't claim he didn't know the description [of himself!] of ths 'true killer' 'was off' because we've all seen the photo of him sitting right in front of the crime psoter with the sketch on it.

IMO, it's hard to describe an invisibe man.

I’m not really following, but RA said that he left around 1:30 and the girls arrived shortly after so they wouldn’t have run into each other. There were a lot of other people on the trail and the bridge that day.

I already did a lengthy post earlier about how if the guy in the video was innocent he would probably not come forward because people want to convict him for appearing in the back of the video. The man not coming forward doesn’t automatically mean bridge guy is RA. That connection doesn’t connect IMO

BG in the video could also just be another person involved in the crime (like a 20 year old with brown poofy hair like the witness who saw him described) who didn’t come forward as a witness and they didn’t collect evidence that identified him. Or they investigated him already and his name is in their files. Lots of options, not a lot of answers. MOO IMO
 
It was testimony, under oath in front of the judge. I wouldn't call that second hand. What was said, testified to, over and over by investigators was none of those men mentioned in the FM as alternative murderers of the girls could be place at the scene, at the time of the murders. They have been checked out, by numerous LE including one of the authors of that Odinists police report and Click himself, and cannot be the killers. That's pretty cut and dry, IMO.

It's not cut and dried, actually, IMO. But again I'm just coming to this from the perspective of an attorney to whom words matter. I can see we'll view this differently, so we needn't continue to hash it out. Thanks again for your replies.
 

See Cyber sleuth's post #798 on the previous page about where it is described in the States Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third Party. Filed April 20, 2023.
That’s a copy paste of Liggets PCA. I was wondering if it appears in another filing outside of PCA.
 
Something he had ZERO authority to do. Maybe he paid for them himself. But still.

I wonder if he pocketed a set for himself.

JMO
I mean, he couldn’t really win in this situation could he? He’d be crucified if he had charged them, because ya know, grief stricken family members in total shock! Would you have charged them if you were him (guilt or innocence aside here, would you have charged them? I wouldn’t have!). I wonder if anyone thought this was creepy of him before he was accused of having killed the kids? Or if it was suddenly creepy in retrospect?
 
I haven’t seen the full video and I haven’t seen any reference outside of Liggett’s PCA saying that he was seen and heard.

The FBI agent didn’t include that in her search warrant and, outside of the Liggets PCA, I haven’t seen that suggestion appear anywhere in filings. I’m definitely open if you know that it has appeared in a filing outside of referencing the PCA.

My assumption is that if this man was actually captured on video that close-up that you could see him speaking, LE would have used that close up video to try to find him rather than the one they went with.

MOO
It's been said in other filings also, someone just posted one very recently and another earlier this afternoon. I believe reference ISP Carter stated very strongly that the guy that you see walking on the bridge is the same guy you hear on the audio. G, DTH. Maybe that poster would be kind enough to link it again? This has been rehashed so much lately. Why are there questions now about this video and audio being from Libby's video? I don't understand?
 
Very true.

However, IMO the guy in the back of the video cannot possibly be just an innocent man strolling by, since we can hear him saying, “Guys, down the hill.”

Therefore that man is likely the suspect. We can’t see clearly enough that this man is RA, but we can see enough to rule some things in or out. A white man, probably middle-aged, his clothing, body type, his apparel etc.

Of course we also have RA admitting he was on that bridge at that time and witnesses who claim to have seen a man similar to RA “muddy and bloody.”

Perhaps the bullet casing alone wouldn’t be enough, but it certainly adds a clue that something belonging to RA was at the scene. We have his lawyers desperate to eliminate anything discovered in his home, and we have his multiple confessions which LE tells us comport with the facts of the case.

IMO a telling detail such as using a box cutter from his place of business rings true.

AFAIK, RA has no alibi, unless the fish he alleges he was watching are able to speak out on his behalf.

Justice for you, Abby. Justice for you, Libby.
Peace for your families.

It can’t come soon enough.

JMO
Box cutter makes me think unplanned though.
 
I just don’t take things as facts unless there is actual evidence of it being a fact. It doesn’t mean that I think it’s impossible. I just don’t think it’s the only possible option.
Perhaps there was someone else waiting down the hill for them, possibly someone they were planning to meet. Then this other guy starts down the bridge towards them.
 
I mean, he couldn’t really win in this situation could he? He’d be crucified if he had charged them, because ya know, grief stricken family members in total shock! Would you have charged them if you were him (guilt or innocence aside here, would you have charged them? I wouldn’t have!). I wonder if anyone thought this was creepy of him before he was accused of having killed the kids? Or if it was suddenly creepy in retrospect?

I wouldn't charge someone in that situation, and the statement that he had "ZERO authority to do so" isn't backed by any facts. I can't claim to know the inner workings of CVS, but I know many non-management employees who can give free stuff or discounts, such as bartenders (and I thank god for them).

In any case, the "gave them photos for free" thing doesn't seem to be indicative either way of guilt or innocence and seems like a red herring to me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
70
Guests online
182
Total visitors
252

Forum statistics

Threads
609,494
Messages
18,254,822
Members
234,664
Latest member
wrongplatform
Back
Top