Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[sunshineray]

I mean, he couldn’t really win in this situation could he? He’d be crucified if he had charged them, because ya know, grief stricken family members in total shock! Would you have charged them if you were him (guilt or innocence aside here, would you have charged them? I wouldn’t have!). I wonder if anyone thought this was creepy of him before he was accused of having killed the kids? Or if it was suddenly creepy in retrospect?

Of course it's creepy in retrospect, now that we have the evidence of his 60+ confessions to killing those two young girls!

 

[iamshadow21]

Box cutter makes me think unplanned though.

But the gun?

 

[155etta]

911 was extraordinarily planned and they used box cutters.

That's true. Hadn't thought of that.

 

[155etta]

But the gun?

Forgot about that. I'm gettin old.

 

[Spartygirl]

Box cutter makes me think unplanned though.

it was planned, IMO
he had a gun, box cutter/knife and walked with a purpose/mission JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

It was testimony, under oath in front of the judge. I wouldn't call that second hand. What was said, testified to, over and over by investigators was none of those men mentioned in the FM as alternative murderers of the girls could be place at the scene, at the time of the murders. They have been checked out, by numerous LE including one of the authors of that Odinists police report and Click himself, and cannot be the killers. That's pretty cut and dry, IMO.

Exactly, MOO this is the reason I think the D will not be allowed to mention Odinists during the trial - nobody could place them at the crime scene on the date of the murders, not even those who testified for the D. One after another McLeland asked, response was negative. A very powerful reinforcement to the fact the D has nothing on them.

Several talking heads expressed this same sentiment, the D failed to reach the bar by the inability to place the Odens at the crime scene. Sounds reasonable to me, they can’t be involved in the murders if they weren’t present.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

Has RA ever provided an alibi? Never have heard one mentioned by his lawyers.

Out of curiosity, if he had presented an alibi to LE, would we even be here? Would he have needed to do so via the lawyers if his alibi was truthful and could be proven?

 

[Arkay]

I mean, he couldn’t really win in this situation could he? He’d be crucified if he had charged them, because ya know, grief stricken family members in total shock! Would you have charged them if you were him (guilt or innocence aside here, would you have charged them? I wouldn’t have!). I wonder if anyone thought this was creepy of him before he was accused of having killed the kids? Or if it was suddenly creepy in retrospect?

I wouldn't charge someone in that situation, and the statement that he had "ZERO authority to do so" isn't backed by any facts. I can't claim to know the inner workings of CVS, but I know many non-management employees who can give free stuff or discounts, such as bartenders

SBM…
When my daughter was a teenager she was a cashier in the CVS on our block, where I was a regular customer. She would have been fired if she’d taken it upon herself to give me something for free.

However, when she worked in a chain shoe store, the manager always told her to give me shoes at a discount.

Therefore I imagine it’s either up to the manager of whatever store….in this case, Abby and Libby was such a tragic story, local to that area, and it could have been construed as a lovely gesture to a grieving family.

The other “or” could be that he did that of his own volition, possibly as a cover or perhaps it gave him some perverse pleasure to toy with the family.

Just speculating.

 

[MiniMoo]

That was when the Franks was released and Court TV asked her to come on as an expert. She clarified several times (as did Vinny) that it was just her impression of the description in the filing and she had not seen any photos nor any discovery.

Going by what the PT's expert said I don't feel it was sacrificial especially with how Libby died and that F or upside down L on the tree. Seems she may have used her pinky finger as part of that formation.

Likely that tree was what she used to balance herself on as she staggered about with such a substantial blood loss. (JMT).

Of course (if possible), I'd like to see it proven and shown in court through video recordings of the blood splatter tests done by Cicero to replicate his findings.

 

[sunshineray]

I’m not really following, but RA said that he left around 1:30 and the girls arrived shortly after so they wouldn’t have run into each other. There were a lot of other people on the trail and the bridge that day.

I already did a lengthy post earlier about how if the guy in the video was innocent he would probably not come forward because people want to convict him for appearing in the back of the video. The man not coming forward doesn’t automatically mean bridge guy is RA. That connection doesn’t connect IMO

BG in the video could also just be another person involved in the crime (like a 20 year old with brown poofy hair like the witness who saw him described) who didn’t come forward as a witness and they didn’t collect evidence that identified him. Or they investigated him already and his name is in their files. Lots of options, not a lot of answers. MOO IMO

RA changed his story, does that not come into the mix at all? A few days after the murders he told DD he was at the trails from 1:30 to 3:30. (verify by him saying he saw the girls that saw him arrive heading towards the Monon High Bridge) Almost 6 years later, when he knew that LE were investigating him, he changed it to, Oh I left at 1:30.

I wonder, maybe he mentions it, lying 6 years later about the time, in any of his 60+ confessions or all the other incriminating statements he's made?

 

[sunshineray]

Out of curiosity, if he had presented an alibi to LE, would we even be here? Would he have needed to do so via the lawyers if his alibi was truthful and could be proven?

Well it would have been the smart thing to do, don't you think?

 

[Boxer]

I don't take careful notice of the guy in the photo department giving me my prints. I'm quickly opening the envelope to see the pictures. And imagine how emotional the family was at that time. They are not expecting that the violent killer is handing them the funeral photos.

Yep, and MOO the photos were free to minimize contact.

 

[ClearAhead]

I’m not really following, but RA said that he left around 1:30 and the girls arrived shortly after so they wouldn’t have run into each other. There were a lot of other people on the trail and the bridge that day.

I already did a lengthy post earlier about how if the guy in the video was innocent he would probably not come forward because people want to convict him for appearing in the back of the video. The man not coming forward doesn’t automatically mean bridge guy is RA. That connection doesn’t connect IMO

BG in the video could also just be another person involved in the crime (like a 20 year old with brown poofy hair like the witness who saw him described) who didn’t come forward as a witness and they didn’t collect evidence that identified him. Or they investigated him already and his name is in their files. Lots of options, not a lot of answers. MOO IMO

Perhaps RA got the time straightened around in one or more of his 61 confessions?

 

[MiniMoo]

RA changed his story, does that not come into the mix at all? A few days after the murders he told DD he was at the trails from 1:30 to 3:30. (verify by him saying he saw the girls that saw him arrive heading towards the Monon High Bridge) Almost 6 years later, when he knew that LE were investigating him, he changed it to, Oh I left at 1:30.

I wonder, maybe he mentions it, lying 6 years later about the time, in any of his 60+ confessions or all the other incriminating statements he's made?

I can't even remember what I had to eat for lunch each day of last week except that on one day I may have had a sandwich. Maybe or maybe not. Actually, maybe not.

To remember something so specific 6 years later would be really hard going I reckon.

 

[iamshadow21]

I can't even remember what I had to eat for lunch each day of last week except that on one day I may have had a sandwich. Maybe or maybe not. Actually, maybe not.

To remember something so specific 6 years later would be really hard going I reckon.

But it's different to every day mundanity because it was a big, shocking event.

I remember where I was and what I was doing when I heard Princess Diana died, even though I have a huge amount of memory loss (trauma related) from my high school years. It stuck, because it was that kind of event.

I imagine most people in Delphi remember a remarkable amount from around the time the girls went missing and were found. This is a town of three thousand people, and the kind of crime that occurs once in a generation in that small a place.

MOO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

It's been said in other filings also, someone just posted one very recently and another earlier this afternoon. I believe reference ISP Carter stated very strongly that the guy that you see walking on the bridge is the same guy you hear on the audio. G, DTH. Maybe that poster would be kind enough to link it again? This has been rehashed so much lately. Why are there questions now about this video and audio being from Libby's video? I don't understand?

It’s not just in the PCA. It’s spelled out in detail The Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third Party Records.
Starts on page 123
Description of man and what is on video on pane 124 and 128.
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23863585/delphidocs.pdf

 

[grannygates]

RA changed his story, does that not come into the mix at all? A few days after the murders he told DD he was at the trails from 1:30 to 3:30. (verify by him saying he saw the girls that saw him arrive heading towards the Monon High Bridge) Almost 6 years later, when he knew that LE were investigating him, he changed it to, Oh I left at 1:30.

I wonder, maybe he mentions it, lying 6 years later about the time, in any of his 60+ confessions or all the other incriminating statements he's made?

Dan Dulin wrote down that Rick Whiteman said that he was at the trails between 130 and 330. The only information we’ve ever got from RA himself is that he left at 1:30.

I don’t consider this a change of story as there is no proof of DD and RAs conversation to independently confirm what was actually said. I can’t consider any of DDs note as a fact.

Two other people have also confessed to this crime, so we can’t just convict on confessions. Or else the crime would’ve been solved on FEB14 when the first suspect went home and confessed to a family member things that only the killer would know.

MOO

 

[grannygates]

It’s not just in the PCA. It’s spelled out in detail The Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third Party Records.
Starts on page 123
Description of man and what is on video on pane 124 and 128.
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23863585/delphidocs.pdf

Im sorry - I don’t think Im seeing what you’re referring to. Are you able to screenshot and post a photo of what you’re talking about because I am only seeing a copy and paste of the probable cause affidavit?

 

[sunshineray]

I can't even remember what I had to eat for lunch each day of last week except that on one day I may have had a sandwich. Maybe or maybe not. Actually, maybe not.

To remember something so specific 6 years later would be really hard going I reckon.

I reckon so

 

[sunshineray]

Dan Dulin wrote down that Rick Whiteman said that he was at the trails between 130 and 330. The only information we’ve ever got from RA himself is that he left at 1:30.

I don’t consider this a change of story as there is no proof of DD and RAs conversation to independently confirm what was actually said. I can’t consider any of DDs note as a fact.

Two other people have also confessed to this crime, so we can’t just convict on confessions. Or else the crime would’ve been solved on FEB14 when the first suspect went home and confessed to a family member things that only the killer would know.

MOO

So you're saying, that Rick Whiteman is not Richard Allen?