Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[kae27]

It was testimony, under oath in front of the judge. I wouldn't call that second hand. What was said, testified to, over and over by investigators was none of those men mentioned in the FM as alternative murderers of the girls could be place at the scene, at the time of the murders. They have been checked out, by numerous LE including one of the authors of that Odinists police report and Click himself, and cannot be the killers. That's pretty cut and dry, IMO.

It's not cut and dried, actually, IMO. But again I'm just coming to this from the perspective of an attorney to whom words matter. I can see we'll view this differently, so we needn't continue to hash it out. Thanks again for your replies.

 

[grannygates]

Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

Yeah, I suppose we just have to really hope that they have insurmountable evidence that it was indeed RA who marched them off that bridge. I wonder how they present this significant bit to the jury and how the D might argue against it... Listening to RA's words of confession with all context...

www.websleuths.com

See Cyber sleuth's post #798 on the previous page about where it is described in the States Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third Party. Filed April 20, 2023.

That’s a copy paste of Liggets PCA. I was wondering if it appears in another filing outside of PCA.

 

[nadia90]

Confessions, evidence putting him at the scene. To be honest it seems like one of the easier cases.

 

[grannygates]

More current than a few days ago?

Yeah I believe it was in Murphy and Clicks testimony on Day 3.

 

[photographer4]

Something he had ZERO authority to do. Maybe he paid for them himself. But still.

I wonder if he pocketed a set for himself.

JMO

I mean, he couldn’t really win in this situation could he? He’d be crucified if he had charged them, because ya know, grief stricken family members in total shock! Would you have charged them if you were him (guilt or innocence aside here, would you have charged them? I wouldn’t have!). I wonder if anyone thought this was creepy of him before he was accused of having killed the kids? Or if it was suddenly creepy in retrospect?

 

[sunshineray]

I haven’t seen the full video and I haven’t seen any reference outside of Liggett’s PCA saying that he was seen and heard.

The FBI agent didn’t include that in her search warrant and, outside of the Liggets PCA, I haven’t seen that suggestion appear anywhere in filings. I’m definitely open if you know that it has appeared in a filing outside of referencing the PCA.

My assumption is that if this man was actually captured on video that close-up that you could see him speaking, LE would have used that close up video to try to find him rather than the one they went with.

MOO

It's been said in other filings also, someone just posted one very recently and another earlier this afternoon. I believe reference ISP Carter stated very strongly that the guy that you see walking on the bridge is the same guy you hear on the audio. G, DTH. Maybe that poster would be kind enough to link it again? This has been rehashed so much lately. Why are there questions now about this video and audio being from Libby's video? I don't understand?

 

[Spartygirl]

I’ve never heard mention of him saying he wants his daughter to still love him. Anyone?

Nope-- Nada
Not one mention of his daughter in any interactions we have heard about in court.
Only wifey and momma

 

[155etta]

Very true.

However, IMO the guy in the back of the video cannot possibly be just an innocent man strolling by, since we can hear him saying, “Guys, down the hill.”

Therefore that man is likely the suspect. We can’t see clearly enough that this man is RA, but we can see enough to rule some things in or out. A white man, probably middle-aged, his clothing, body type, his apparel etc.

Of course we also have RA admitting he was on that bridge at that time and witnesses who claim to have seen a man similar to RA “muddy and bloody.”

Perhaps the bullet casing alone wouldn’t be enough, but it certainly adds a clue that something belonging to RA was at the scene. We have his lawyers desperate to eliminate anything discovered in his home, and we have his multiple confessions which LE tells us comport with the facts of the case.

IMO a telling detail such as using a box cutter from his place of business rings true.

AFAIK, RA has no alibi, unless the fish he alleges he was watching are able to speak out on his behalf.

Justice for you, Abby. Justice for you, Libby.
Peace for your families.

It can’t come soon enough.

JMO

Box cutter makes me think unplanned though.

 

[MollyDDD]

I just don’t take things as facts unless there is actual evidence of it being a fact. It doesn’t mean that I think it’s impossible. I just don’t think it’s the only possible option.

Perhaps there was someone else waiting down the hill for them, possibly someone they were planning to meet. Then this other guy starts down the bridge towards them.

 

[kae27]

I mean, he couldn’t really win in this situation could he? He’d be crucified if he had charged them, because ya know, grief stricken family members in total shock! Would you have charged them if you were him (guilt or innocence aside here, would you have charged them? I wouldn’t have!). I wonder if anyone thought this was creepy of him before he was accused of having killed the kids? Or if it was suddenly creepy in retrospect?

I wouldn't charge someone in that situation, and the statement that he had "ZERO authority to do so" isn't backed by any facts. I can't claim to know the inner workings of CVS, but I know many non-management employees who can give free stuff or discounts, such as bartenders (and I thank god for them).

In any case, the "gave them photos for free" thing doesn't seem to be indicative either way of guilt or innocence and seems like a red herring to me.

 

[Tealgrove]

Box cutter makes me think unplanned though.

911 was extraordinarily planned and they used box cutters.

 

[sunshineray]

I mean, he couldn’t really win in this situation could he? He’d be crucified if he had charged them, because ya know, grief stricken family members in total shock! Would you have charged them if you were him (guilt or innocence aside here, would you have charged them? I wouldn’t have!). I wonder if anyone thought this was creepy of him before he was accused of having killed the kids? Or if it was suddenly creepy in retrospect?

Of course it's creepy in retrospect, now that we have the evidence of his 60+ confessions to killing those two young girls!

 

[iamshadow21]

Box cutter makes me think unplanned though.

But the gun?

 

[155etta]

911 was extraordinarily planned and they used box cutters.

That's true. Hadn't thought of that.

 

[155etta]

But the gun?

Forgot about that. I'm gettin old.

 

[Spartygirl]

Box cutter makes me think unplanned though.

it was planned, IMO
he had a gun, box cutter/knife and walked with a purpose/mission JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

It was testimony, under oath in front of the judge. I wouldn't call that second hand. What was said, testified to, over and over by investigators was none of those men mentioned in the FM as alternative murderers of the girls could be place at the scene, at the time of the murders. They have been checked out, by numerous LE including one of the authors of that Odinists police report and Click himself, and cannot be the killers. That's pretty cut and dry, IMO.

Exactly, MOO this is the reason I think the D will not be allowed to mention Odinists during the trial - nobody could place them at the crime scene on the date of the murders, not even those who testified for the D. One after another McLeland asked, response was negative. A very powerful reinforcement to the fact the D has nothing on them.

Several talking heads expressed this same sentiment, the D failed to reach the bar by the inability to place the Odens at the crime scene. Sounds reasonable to me, they can’t be involved in the murders if they weren’t present.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

Has RA ever provided an alibi? Never have heard one mentioned by his lawyers.

Out of curiosity, if he had presented an alibi to LE, would we even be here? Would he have needed to do so via the lawyers if his alibi was truthful and could be proven?

 

[Arkay]

I mean, he couldn’t really win in this situation could he? He’d be crucified if he had charged them, because ya know, grief stricken family members in total shock! Would you have charged them if you were him (guilt or innocence aside here, would you have charged them? I wouldn’t have!). I wonder if anyone thought this was creepy of him before he was accused of having killed the kids? Or if it was suddenly creepy in retrospect?

I wouldn't charge someone in that situation, and the statement that he had "ZERO authority to do so" isn't backed by any facts. I can't claim to know the inner workings of CVS, but I know many non-management employees who can give free stuff or discounts, such as bartenders

SBM…
When my daughter was a teenager she was a cashier in the CVS on our block, where I was a regular customer. She would have been fired if she’d taken it upon herself to give me something for free.

However, when she worked in a chain shoe store, the manager always told her to give me shoes at a discount.

Therefore I imagine it’s either up to the manager of whatever store….in this case, Abby and Libby was such a tragic story, local to that area, and it could have been construed as a lovely gesture to a grieving family.

The other “or” could be that he did that of his own volition, possibly as a cover or perhaps it gave him some perverse pleasure to toy with the family.

Just speculating.

 

[MiniMoo]

That was when the Franks was released and Court TV asked her to come on as an expert. She clarified several times (as did Vinny) that it was just her impression of the description in the filing and she had not seen any photos nor any discovery.

Going by what the PT's expert said I don't feel it was sacrificial especially with how Libby died and that F or upside down L on the tree. Seems she may have used her pinky finger as part of that formation.

Likely that tree was what she used to balance herself on as she staggered about with such a substantial blood loss. (JMT).

Of course (if possible), I'd like to see it proven and shown in court through video recordings of the blood splatter tests done by Cicero to replicate his findings.