IL IL - Starved Rock State Park Murders of three women, 4 Mar 1960

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other, but as a counterpoint to this specific argument, see the current Rex Heuermann (LISK) threads. Part of what ties him to the victims are transfer hairs from his wife and daughter, who were out of town during (all?) of his verified murders.
The more I read of this case, the more information comes forth. The hair was one of several found in Murphy's gloved hand. It turns out that they were hot simple hairs that would have fallen in due course, they were hairs that contained a root and a follicle, which means they were pulled from someone's head, likely during a struggle.

Testing labs developed a DNA profile from the hair, which was not from Weger or anyone in his family. Genetic Genealogy determined they were from one of three brothers, who were local to Ottawa.
 
Last edited:
Police investigators determined that the rather rare 20 strand twine used to bind the Starved Rock murder victims was a match to twine used to bind the victim of an earlier unsolved rape case.

That rape victim picked Chester Weger out of a line up as the person who had raped her.

Wager was convicted of murdering Frances Murphy and sentenced to death. Because he had received the death penalty, Prosecutors decided to not charge Weger with the other two murders or the rape.

On appeal, he was given a re-trial in the Murphy case. Weger was again convicted, but because one of the twelve jurors refused to vote for the death penalty, he was sentenced to life without parole.
Whether Weger was involved in a prior rape or not is irrelevant, because in the Starved Rock case, there was no sexual assault. It was a staged crime scene. There was no evidence connecting Weger to the murders, only a confession that was likely given under duress, and which he immediately recanted.
 
The more I read of this case, the more information comes forth. The hair was one of several found in Murphy's gloved hand. It turns out that they were hot simple hairs that would have fallen in due course, they were hairs that contained a root and a follicle, which means they were pulled from someone's head, likely during a struggle.

Testing labs developed a DNA profile from the hair, which was not from Weger or anyone in his family. Genetic Genealogy determined they were from one of three brothers, who were local to Ottawa.
If that’s the conclusion of the defense attorney, why is he coming up with a second scenario involving the husband of one of the victims? Which is it?
 
If that’s the conclusion of the defense attorney, why is he coming up with a second scenario involving the husband of one of the victims? Which is it?
His opinion is that the husband hired a local group to kill the wife. That is detailed in this podcast.

The story starts at about the 4-minute mark.

The real meat of the story comes in at the 8-minute mark.
 
Chester Weger passed 6 separate polygraph exams, each given by the Illinois State Police.
Not satisfied, a polygraph examiner affiliated with the John C. Reid group was brought in to give Weger another lie detector.

This man's name was Steven Kindig, and he determined that Weger was being untruthful.
Coincidentally, Kindig was good friends with Robert Murphy, husband of one of the victims, who would remarry less than two years after her death.
1722779002057.png
 
Whether Weger was involved in a prior rape or not is irrelevant, because in the Starved Rock case, there was no sexual assault. It was a staged crime scene. There was no evidence connecting Weger to the murders, only a confession that was likely given under duress, and which he immediately recanted.

The significance about the alleged prior rape is that it tied Weger to the twine used to tie all the victims in the eyes of the investigators. So, from an investigative perspective, it is very relevant.

Weger was not charged with raping any of the victims - not of the Starved Rock women or the earlier case. Because of the way our legal system works, the rape victim could not have been a witness in the murder trial, because her testimony on a crime NOT charged would be considered prejudicial. She was NOT called as a witness, nor was her case mentioned to either of the two juries which convicted Weger of the murder of Frances Murphy.

Weger was released from prison on parole because he was old, NOT because he was considered innocent. He was twice convicted of the crime of murder, based on circumstantial evidence and on his own confession. Some of the circumstantial evidence placed him in the area, away from his job at the time, injuries to his face, blood on his coat, and the twine which came from the kitchen where he worked.

Regarding his detailed confession and reenactment of the crime, followed later by his recantation, it begs the question, "Were you lying then or are you lying now?"

His passing or failing a lie detector test was not something which could be presented in trial.

All that said, the possibility of Weger having been connected to others in the commission of the murders is something to consider.
 
The significance about the alleged prior rape is that it tied Weger to the twine used to tie all the victims in the eyes of the investigators. So, from an investigative perspective, it is very relevant.

Weger was not charged with raping any of the victims - not of the Starved Rock women or the earlier case. Because of the way our legal system works, the rape victim could not have been a witness in the murder trial, because her testimony on a crime NOT charged would be considered prejudicial. She was NOT called as a witness, nor was her case mentioned to either of the two juries which convicted Weger of the murder of Frances Murphy.

Weger was released from prison on parole because he was old, NOT because he was considered innocent. He was twice convicted of the crime of murder, based on circumstantial evidence and on his own confession. Some of the circumstantial evidence placed him in the area, away from his job at the time, injuries to his face, blood on his coat, and the twine which came from the kitchen where he worked.

Regarding his detailed confession and reenactment of the crime, followed later by his recantation, it begs the question, "Were you lying then or are you lying now?"

His passing or failing a lie detector test was not something which could be presented in trial.

All that said, the possibility of Weger having been connected to others in the commission of the murders is something to consider.
At the crime scene, there were two types of twine, 20-strand and 10-strand.
Newspaper accounts report that 20-strand twine was found tied around the wrists of Frances Murphy and Lillian Oetting and that a piece of 20-strand twine was found knotted to a piece of 10-strand twine near the mouth of the cave in St. Louis Canyon. It was never proven that the twine found at the crime scene matched any twine from the lodge kitchen. That was a fallacy created by Harland Warren.

Investigators went to Chester’s house. What did they find? Twelve-ply twine. There was no 12-ply twine at the crime scene. The twine evidence was so exculpatory that it should have cleared Weger in itself. 1722819659585.png1722820290161.png
 
Correction to my previous post: Weger was convicted of the murder of Lillian Oetting, not of Frances Murphy. Below is a link to a rather long document which discusses the case in great detail. It is the official ruling on Weger's appeal.

Weger appealed on the basis that his confession should not have been allowed into evidence.

LINK:

 
Correction to my previous post: Weger was convicted of the murder of Lillian Oetting, not of Frances Murphy. Below is a link to a rather long document which discusses the case in great detail. It is the official ruling on Weger's appeal.

Weger appealed on the basis that his confession should not have been allowed into evidence.

LINK:

Chester testified that driving back from Chicago after the polygraph that he allegedly failed Bill Dummett threatened him with the electric chair several times. At trial, Dummett was called to the stand and he denies that. Assistant State’s Attorney Craig Armstrong, who was also in the car, testified that Dummett had threatened Chester Weger several times while en route from Chicago.

As for the crime itself...
Let's break down why this story about Weger murdering these women is so hard to believe:
Imagine you're on your lunch break. Would you suddenly decide to run over a mile away to one of the most popular sites in the park to rob some people? And not just anyone, but three women who are bigger than you, and are staying at the same lodge you are employed at?

That's what they're saying Weger, who stood 5'8" and weighed only 130 pounds, did.

Then, we're supposed to believe he somehow beat all three women to death with a stick he found lying around. After that, he apparently dragged their bodies into a cave (why?) and cut off Murphy's finger with a knife. But he didn't use that knife for the actual murders. Then he defecated and urinated on Murphy's body and kicked her in the groin for some reason.

After all this, he supposedly ran over a mile back to work, cleaned up perfectly, and showed up for his shift like nothing happened. All in about an hour!

What about the bloody coat?
An FBI witness said at trial, that minute spots of blood, the size of a pinpoint were found on Chester's buckskin jacket. This after he was supposed to have beaten these three women to a bloody pulp with a blunt object, then carried or dragged them fireman style over his shoulder into the cave.

To top it all off, they say he took time to mess with the bodies and their clothes, making the crime scene look staged. But why would he waste time doing that if he had to run over a mile to get back to work before his lunch break ended?

As for motive...
If robbery was the alleged motive, why didn't he steal their money and valuables?
If sex was the alleged motive, why was there no sexual assault on any of the victims?

I live less than two hours from Starved Rock State Park and have been there on more than one occasion, staying the weekend. The lodge and the rooms look the same today as they did then.
The huge dining room is the same and the trails which the ladies took are the same. In fact, at one of the times I went, it was not crowded, just like when the ladies were there in 1960. I may have even stayed in the same room they did.

The rooms look the same. What is unique is that the headboards are built in and haven't changed since 1939, when the lodge was built.
This is the style of room the women probably stayed in.
1722847149224.png

The Lodge restaurnat looks the same today as it did in 1960, This is where the women ate their last meal.
1722847026110.png
 
Last edited:
Nice photos of the Starved Rock Inn.

Chester Weger, paroled in Starved Rock killings, walks out of prison ...

Chester Weger, photographed in the Starved Rock Park cave during his re-enactment of the triple murder.



Starved Rock murderer Chester Weger released from prison – Shaw Local
 
Nice photos of the Starved Rock Inn.

Chester Weger, paroled in Starved Rock killings, walks out of prison ...

Chester Weger, photographed in the Starved Rock Park cave during his re-enactment of the triple murder.



Starved Rock murderer Chester Weger released from prison – Shaw Local
We can go on discussing this case forever. Here is my summary of the facts of the case and why I consider Chester Weger innocent of these crimes.

In 1960, a triple murder took place at Starved Rock State Park in Illinois. Chester Weger was ultimately convicted of these crimes, despite significant questions surrounding the case.

The murders involved three women, one of whom was Frances Murphy, wife of George Murphy. Frances's body showed signs of particularly brutal treatment compared to the other victims. She had been defecated on, urinated on, kicked in the groin, and had the tip of a finger cut off with a knife.

The investigation and subsequent trial were marked by several controversial elements.
There was no physical evidence connecting Weger to the crime scene.
Weger had only a one-hour lunch break on the day of the murders, yet the crime scene was over a mile away from his known location.

The lie detector tests in the case were conducted by Steven Kindig, who had personal connections to key figures involved. Kindig was a friend of George Murphy, the husband of one of the victims. Chester Weger was also given a lie detector test by Kindig. After successfully passing no less than six prior lie detector exams given by the Illinois State Police, Kindig said that Weger failed the test.

Glen and William Palmatier were implicated in the murders by a phone operator named Lois Zelensek, who claimed to have overheard a conversation between them about disposing of bloody clothes as well as the crime itself.

However, when Kindig administered lie detector tests, he found the Palmatier brothers truthful in their denials but deemed Zelensek's account untruthful. Interestingly, George Murphy was acquainted with Glen Palmatier, one of the men implicated in the overheard conversation.

It's crucial to understand the legal landscape of the time. During this era, prosecutors were not obligated to share exculpatory evidence with defense attorneys, as they are today. This means that any evidence potentially proving Weger's innocence might not have been made available to his defense team, significantly hampering their ability to mount an effective case.

Moreover, the right to an attorney and Miranda warnings, now considered fundamental to due process, were not yet established legal precedents. These rights were only mandated by Supreme Court decisions within a few years of the Weger case. This timing suggests that Weger's interrogation and initial legal proceedings might have lacked protections that are now considered essential for a fair trial.

The case took an intriguing turn in the aftermath of the murders. Less than a month before the crimes, a woman named Marion Anderson, possibly George Murphy's secretary, gave birth to a boy. The birth certificate did not list a father's name. Less than two years after his wife's murder, George Murphy married Marion Anderson and adopted her son, giving him the Murphy surname.

Upon their deaths, George Murphy chose to be buried next to his second wife, Marion, in a cemetery miles away from where his first wife of 29 years was laid to rest.

The timing of these personal events in George Murphy's life adds another layer of complexity to the case. The quick remarriage and adoption, coupled with the decision to be buried away from his first wife, raise questions about the nature of his relationship with Marion Anderson before the murders. It's worth noting that extramarital affairs were highly stigmatized in the 1960s, which could have provided a motive for covering up or misdirecting the investigation if there was any connection.

The inconsistencies in the case against Chester Weger are particularly troubling. The lack of physical evidence and the improbability of Weger committing the crimes within his limited time frame cast doubt on his conviction. Moreover, the connection between George Murphy, Steven Kindig, and Glen Palmatier suggests a potential conflict of interest in the investigation and polygraph examinations.

The differential treatment of the victims, with Frances Murphy receiving notably more brutal attention, could indicate a personal motive rather than a random act of violence. This detail, combined with George Murphy's subsequent life choices, opens up alternative theories about the true perpetrator and motive behind the murders.

The dismissal of Lois Zelensek's testimony about the Palmatier brothers is another point of contention. The decision to disregard her account based on a polygraph test administered by an examiner with personal connections to the case raises questions about the objectivity of the investigation.

These facts collectively paint a picture of a case that may have been prematurely closed, potentially allowing the real perpetrator(s) to escape justice.
 
Chester Weger's jacket...absent of blood.
 

Attachments

  • weger jacket.png
    weger jacket.png
    547.4 KB · Views: 4
Interesting points. I would ask some of the same questions regarding any scenario in which a "hit" was behind the attack. Why would a hit man want to kill three persons instead of just one? And why all the violent beatings when a firearm or knife could have done the job more quickly?

Weger's confession seems to have filled in details of the crime - however improbable or strange they might sound. And that was the main evidence presented to the juries for consideration. His account begins with him following them from the Inn, trying to steal what he thought was a purse, and then things going downhill from there.
 
Interesting points. I would ask some of the same questions regarding any scenario in which a "hit" was behind the attack. Why would a hit man want to kill three persons instead of just one? And why all the violent beatings when a firearm or knife could have done the job more quickly?

Weger's confession seems to have filled in details of the crime - however improbable or strange they might sound. And that was the main evidence presented to the juries for consideration. His account begins with him following them from the Inn, trying to steal what he thought was a purse, and then things going downhill from there.
This was discussed by Weger's attorney Andrew Hale in this podcast.
According to Smokey Wrona, the alleged planner of the hit, all three women needed to be killed to make it look random with no one specifically targeted, and to distance the husband further from the crime.

Wrona, also indicated that the women were initially strangled with bags over their heads that he obtained from a meat market in a nearby town. He stated that their faces were bashed in to cover any evidence that they were strangled. The bodies were posed so as to give the impression that a random sexual assault took place.
This is a very informative podcast if you have the time. The narrator is Andy Hale, Chester Weger's attorney.

 
This was discussed by Weger's attorney Andrew Hale in this podcast.
According to Smokey Wrona, the alleged planner of the hit, all three women needed to be killed to make it look random with no one specifically targeted, and to distance the husband further from the crime.

Wrona, also indicated that the women were initially strangled with bags over their heads that he obtained from a meat market in a nearby town. He stated that their faces were bashed in to cover any evidence that they were strangled. The bodies were posed so as to give the impression that a random sexual assault took place.
This is a very informative podcast if you have the time. The narrator is Andy Hale, Chester Weger's attorney.

Another tidbit I just learned from Andy Shaw's podcast.
There was a reward offered for information leading up to the conviction of the killer.

Who got the reward?
Harland Warren received $11,000
Corrupt investigator Dummit received $5000
Dummit partner Hess received $5000
Polygraph examiner Steven Kindig received $5000

You can't make this stuff up.
 
What makes it all the more absurd that Chester Weger committed these crimes is the fact that it would likely be impossible for a slim 5'8" man who weighed 130 pounds, to drag or carry a body that weighed at least 150 pounds dead weight, up this ledge into the inner portion of this cave.

Here is an interesting video that someone shot as they revisited the crime scene.
It is from this year.
 

Attachments

  • cave2.png
    cave2.png
    804.8 KB · Views: 2
  • cave1.png
    cave1.png
    784.7 KB · Views: 2
Another bombshell...

Randy Reynolds, who was at Investigator William Dummitt's retirement party, was standing next to Dummit, and heard him jokingly tell a few other guests, that he knew Chester Weger was innocent but he got him to confess...after which he laughed.

Weger's attorney contacted the Will County State Attorney's office, which interviewed Reynolds recently about the claim. Here is a link to the podcast describing the interview.
 
Another bombshell...

Randy Reynolds, who was at Investigator William Dummitt's retirement party, was standing next to Dummit, and heard him jokingly tell a few other guests, that he knew Chester Weger was innocent but he got him to confess...after which he laughed.

Weger's attorney contacted the Will County State Attorney's office, which interviewed Reynolds recently about the claim. Here is a link to the podcast describing the interview.

Were there any witnesses to this conversation? Are any of the participants in the convo still living? It sounds like hearsay, not admissible as evidence.

I get an uncomfortable feeling that this defense attorney is making a lot of dubious claims about people who are no longer around to defend themselves and events long past. His motives seem to be a desire to profit from the tragedy by selling books, making podcasts and documentaries, in addition to representing the defendant. He's created quite a true crime industry about these tragic murders. Instead of making accusations against the victims families, perhaps he should share some of the profits he's made to compensate for exploiting their grief and tragedy.
 
Were there any witnesses to this conversation? Are any of the participants in the convo still living? It sounds like hearsay, not admissible as evidence.

I get an uncomfortable feeling that this defense attorney is making a lot of dubious claims about people who are no longer around to defend themselves and events long past. His motives seem to be a desire to profit from the tragedy by selling books, making podcasts and documentaries, in addition to representing the defendant. He's created quite a true crime industry about these tragic murders. Instead of making accusations against the victims families, perhaps he should share some of the profits he's made to compensate for exploiting their grief and tragedy.
According to attorney Andrew Hale, it is not hearsay because Reynolds heard it firsthand from Dummett. Dummett is dead but Reynolds made this claim very recently and met with Will County State's Attorney.

Dummett was a dirty cop and it was proven on more than one occasion. He threatened Weger with the electric chair if he did not confess. These threats were witnessed by an attorney who was present at the time. Dummett also threatened another suspect and lied about it on the stand...but he was caught.

I don't know about Hale's motives.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
57
Guests online
167
Total visitors
224

Forum statistics

Threads
609,498
Messages
18,254,866
Members
234,664
Latest member
wrongplatform
Back
Top