IL IL - Starved Rock State Park Murders of three women, 4 Mar 1960

[Gunther Toody]

I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other, but as a counterpoint to this specific argument, see the current Rex Heuermann (LISK) threads. Part of what ties him to the victims are transfer hairs from his wife and daughter, who were out of town during (all?) of his verified murders.

The more I read of this case, the more information comes forth. The hair was one of several found in Murphy's gloved hand. It turns out that they were hot simple hairs that would have fallen in due course, they were hairs that contained a root and a follicle, which means they were pulled from someone's head, likely during a struggle.

Testing labs developed a DNA profile from the hair, which was not from Weger or anyone in his family. Genetic Genealogy determined they were from one of three brothers, who were local to Ottawa.

 

[Gunther Toody]

Police investigators determined that the rather rare 20 strand twine used to bind the Starved Rock murder victims was a match to twine used to bind the victim of an earlier unsolved rape case.

That rape victim picked Chester Weger out of a line up as the person who had raped her.

Wager was convicted of murdering Frances Murphy and sentenced to death. Because he had received the death penalty, Prosecutors decided to not charge Weger with the other two murders or the rape.

On appeal, he was given a re-trial in the Murphy case. Weger was again convicted, but because one of the twelve jurors refused to vote for the death penalty, he was sentenced to life without parole.

Whether Weger was involved in a prior rape or not is irrelevant, because in the Starved Rock case, there was no sexual assault. It was a staged crime scene. There was no evidence connecting Weger to the murders, only a confession that was likely given under duress, and which he immediately recanted.

 

[Betty P]

The more I read of this case, the more information comes forth. The hair was one of several found in Murphy's gloved hand. It turns out that they were hot simple hairs that would have fallen in due course, they were hairs that contained a root and a follicle, which means they were pulled from someone's head, likely during a struggle.

Testing labs developed a DNA profile from the hair, which was not from Weger or anyone in his family. Genetic Genealogy determined they were from one of three brothers, who were local to Ottawa.

If that’s the conclusion of the defense attorney, why is he coming up with a second scenario involving the husband of one of the victims? Which is it?

 

[Gunther Toody]

If that’s the conclusion of the defense attorney, why is he coming up with a second scenario involving the husband of one of the victims? Which is it?

His opinion is that the husband hired a local group to kill the wife. That is detailed in this podcast.

The story starts at about the 4-minute mark.

The real meat of the story comes in at the 8-minute mark.

 

[Betty P]

His opinion is that the husband hired a local group to kill the wife. That is detailed in this podcast.

The story starts at about the 4-minute mark.

The real meat of the story comes in at the 8-minute mark.

I'll check it out.

 

[Gunther Toody]

Chester Weger passed 6 separate polygraph exams, each given by the Illinois State Police.
Not satisfied, a polygraph examiner affiliated with the John C. Reid group was brought in to give Weger another lie detector.

This man's name was Steven Kindig, and he determined that Weger was being untruthful.
Coincidentally, Kindig was good friends with Robert Murphy, husband of one of the victims, who would remarry less than two years after her death.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/6202f364033f5f35fd5f2546/t/634889e507362716f280f203/1665698278229/Newspaper+article+re+Stephen+Kindig+and+Robert+Murphy.pdf

 

[Richard]

Whether Weger was involved in a prior rape or not is irrelevant, because in the Starved Rock case, there was no sexual assault. It was a staged crime scene. There was no evidence connecting Weger to the murders, only a confession that was likely given under duress, and which he immediately recanted.

The significance about the alleged prior rape is that it tied Weger to the twine used to tie all the victims in the eyes of the investigators. So, from an investigative perspective, it is very relevant.

Weger was not charged with raping any of the victims - not of the Starved Rock women or the earlier case. Because of the way our legal system works, the rape victim could not have been a witness in the murder trial, because her testimony on a crime NOT charged would be considered prejudicial. She was NOT called as a witness, nor was her case mentioned to either of the two juries which convicted Weger of the murder of Frances Murphy.

Weger was released from prison on parole because he was old, NOT because he was considered innocent. He was twice convicted of the crime of murder, based on circumstantial evidence and on his own confession. Some of the circumstantial evidence placed him in the area, away from his job at the time, injuries to his face, blood on his coat, and the twine which came from the kitchen where he worked.

Regarding his detailed confession and reenactment of the crime, followed later by his recantation, it begs the question, "Were you lying then or are you lying now?"

His passing or failing a lie detector test was not something which could be presented in trial.

All that said, the possibility of Weger having been connected to others in the commission of the murders is something to consider.

 

[Gunther Toody]

The significance about the alleged prior rape is that it tied Weger to the twine used to tie all the victims in the eyes of the investigators. So, from an investigative perspective, it is very relevant.

Weger was not charged with raping any of the victims - not of the Starved Rock women or the earlier case. Because of the way our legal system works, the rape victim could not have been a witness in the murder trial, because her testimony on a crime NOT charged would be considered prejudicial. She was NOT called as a witness, nor was her case mentioned to either of the two juries which convicted Weger of the murder of Frances Murphy.

Weger was released from prison on parole because he was old, NOT because he was considered innocent. He was twice convicted of the crime of murder, based on circumstantial evidence and on his own confession. Some of the circumstantial evidence placed him in the area, away from his job at the time, injuries to his face, blood on his coat, and the twine which came from the kitchen where he worked.

Regarding his detailed confession and reenactment of the crime, followed later by his recantation, it begs the question, "Were you lying then or are you lying now?"

His passing or failing a lie detector test was not something which could be presented in trial.

All that said, the possibility of Weger having been connected to others in the commission of the murders is something to consider.

At the crime scene, there were two types of twine, 20-strand and 10-strand.
Newspaper accounts report that 20-strand twine was found tied around the wrists of Frances Murphy and Lillian Oetting and that a piece of 20-strand twine was found knotted to a piece of 10-strand twine near the mouth of the cave in St. Louis Canyon. It was never proven that the twine found at the crime scene matched any twine from the lodge kitchen. That was a fallacy created by Harland Warren.

Investigators went to Chester’s house. What did they find? Twelve-ply twine. There was no 12-ply twine at the crime scene. The twine evidence was so exculpatory that it should have cleared Weger in itself.

 

[Richard]

Correction to my previous post: Weger was convicted of the murder of Lillian Oetting, not of Frances Murphy. Below is a link to a rather long document which discusses the case in great detail. It is the official ruling on Weger's appeal.

Weger appealed on the basis that his confession should not have been allowed into evidence.

LINK:

The PEOPLE v. Weger

The PEOPLE v. Weger - 185 N.E.2d 183, 25 Ill. 2d 370

law.justia.com

 

[Gunther Toody]

Correction to my previous post: Weger was convicted of the murder of Lillian Oetting, not of Frances Murphy. Below is a link to a rather long document which discusses the case in great detail. It is the official ruling on Weger's appeal.

Weger appealed on the basis that his confession should not have been allowed into evidence.

LINK:

The PEOPLE v. Weger

The PEOPLE v. Weger - 185 N.E.2d 183, 25 Ill. 2d 370

law.justia.com

Chester testified that driving back from Chicago after the polygraph that he allegedly failed Bill Dummett threatened him with the electric chair several times. At trial, Dummett was called to the stand and he denies that. Assistant State’s Attorney Craig Armstrong, who was also in the car, testified that Dummett had threatened Chester Weger several times while en route from Chicago.

As for the crime itself...
Let's break down why this story about Weger murdering these women is so hard to believe:
Imagine you're on your lunch break. Would you suddenly decide to run over a mile away to one of the most popular sites in the park to rob some people? And not just anyone, but three women who are bigger than you, and are staying at the same lodge you are employed at?

That's what they're saying Weger, who stood 5'8" and weighed only 130 pounds, did.

Then, we're supposed to believe he somehow beat all three women to death with a stick he found lying around. After that, he apparently dragged their bodies into a cave (why?) and cut off Murphy's finger with a knife. But he didn't use that knife for the actual murders. Then he defecated and urinated on Murphy's body and kicked her in the groin for some reason.

After all this, he supposedly ran over a mile back to work, cleaned up perfectly, and showed up for his shift like nothing happened. All in about an hour!

What about the bloody coat?
An FBI witness said at trial, that minute spots of blood, the size of a pinpoint were found on Chester's buckskin jacket. This after he was supposed to have beaten these three women to a bloody pulp with a blunt object, then carried or dragged them fireman style over his shoulder into the cave.

To top it all off, they say he took time to mess with the bodies and their clothes, making the crime scene look staged. But why would he waste time doing that if he had to run over a mile to get back to work before his lunch break ended?

As for motive...
If robbery was the alleged motive, why didn't he steal their money and valuables?
If sex was the alleged motive, why was there no sexual assault on any of the victims?

I live less than two hours from Starved Rock State Park and have been there on more than one occasion, staying the weekend. The lodge and the rooms look the same today as they did then.
The huge dining room is the same and the trails which the ladies took are the same. In fact, at one of the times I went, it was not crowded, just like when the ladies were there in 1960. I may have even stayed in the same room they did.

The rooms look the same. What is unique is that the headboards are built in and haven't changed since 1939, when the lodge was built.
This is the style of room the women probably stayed in.


The Lodge restaurnat looks the same today as it did in 1960, This is where the women ate their last meal.

 

[Richard]

Nice photos of the Starved Rock Inn.

Chester Weger, photographed in the Starved Rock Park cave during his re-enactment of the triple murder.