Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[sunshineray]

I think she said on the stand that they were "friends" - so that in itself surely compromises her professionalism and what have you.

Am sure she will be challenged if it comes to that and shot down, not by a real gun, but by the Prosecution.

She was one person RA made a confession to so pretty sure the prosecutor wants her as a witness. MO

 

[sunshineray]

If she is a prosecution witness, why would they put her on the stand? It's a lose/lose for defense and prosecution to have her as a witness.

Because she also testified about RA's poor mental health.

 

[sunshineray]

That misfiling rumour came from the Murder Sheet. The FBI issued a statement saying that the story is misleading and the tip was file in the correct manner.

As stated in the past this is a complex multi-agency investigation. The implication that an alleged clerical error by an FBI employee caused years of delay in identifying this defendant is misleading. Our review of the matter shows FBI employees correctly followed established procedures.

Responding to "Clerical Error" Claims

INDIANAPOLIS — Some have been saying it was a “clerical error,” and now the FBI is responding. You might have heard reports that tracking down a suspect in the Delphi case was delayed due to a “clerical error.” FBI Indianapolis issued a response to those claims Thursday. The statement says: As...

wibc.com

The missfiling was not a rumor, it came from LE.

 

[MiniMoo]

She was one person RA made a confession to so pretty sure the prosecutor wants her as a witness. MO

Possibly - seems she followed it all from the beginning so there are things there that the Prosecutors can work with to discredit her for sure if they want to go that way.

If he confessed as much as he did and he is indeed the perpetrator - there seem to be other witnesses including recordings, if permissable.

The Psychologist isn't the only one.

 

[grannygates]

The missfiling was not a rumor, it came from LE.

Which LE ? The article is directly quoting the murder sheet people

‘Clerical error’ may have led police to overlook Richard Allen in Delphi case

DELPHI, Ind. – Why now? That’s one of the biggest questions surrounding the arrest of Richard Allen, who’s charged with murdering Abby Williams and Libby German in February 2017. It appears a “cler…

fox59.com

 

[grannygates]

Yes and I guess it works in reverse as well...if the DT wants to bring in him being psychotic and having forced haldol, they have to be ready for the full confession as well?

Of course. They go hand-in-hand.

 

[sunshineray]

according to the MS reporting, the Due Process discord has been pushing the conspiracy that the video and photo are sketch. this is part of a broader theory that the murders are drug related and the family is involved.

i never understood Baldwins examination of Todd Click about JM until MS explained what the background conspiracy is.

hope that helps.

MOO

Thank you mrjitty for explaining that. What in the world!?? That Due Process Gang are just out of control and they're partly made up of lawyers!? What a sad bunch, going after the families now. All this for a man who wants to confess to the brutal murders of two young girls. How much more dastardly scheming by friends and co-workers of the DT are these families going to have to endure? It's hearbreaking </3 AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

I’m not sure. I only really heard a story about him not knowing how to dial a phone and I think that was a call to his wife? So I only heard of very general statements, nothing specific so I can’t say what he said.

I mostly recall her treatment of him as a patient, the medical diagnoses he received and the weekly involuntary IV medication haldol, so more the mental health program side of it.

So I guess if you’re the state and you want to put this witness up to get in these confessions, you have to believe that none of the jury will believe a psychologist classifying someone as psychotic and prescribing involuntary medication and then comes in all of the video of all of these events of psychopathy occurring so that the jury will see it all of it first hand.

So you gotta wonder, for the state, does the reward outweigh the risk?

He broke his tablet that he used to call out with. Nobody else had one of those, I believe the warden gave it to him special. He had to borrow a phone from Dr. W. Being that it was inside a prison, there was probably a special way to connect to an outside line. It wasn't due to RA's mental deficiency. MO

 

[snarast]

They got tens of thousands of tips. Once you get that much information coming in, unless there is a very, very good management of that information, it collapses under its own weight and crucial information gets missed, not just once, but sometimes many times.

I mentioned the Yorkshire Ripper earlier with good reason. The system created for that investigation was literally destroying the building with the weight of paperwork (no, really, they had to reinforce the building to prevent a collapse). They had thousands of tips, tens of thousands of actions, and still, the victims kept being attacked and/or killed.

They interviewed Sutcliffe no fewer than nine times. None of those interviews led to his arrest, despite many, many things suggesting he was a strong suspect.

In the end, he was arrested by a suspicious uniform cop who found him parking with a sex worker and thought the situation was weird. Once he'd dropped Sutcliffe at the station, he returned to the location and found the weapons Sutcliffe had tried to hide.

The investigation in the first months of this case reeks of the same desperation as the Ripper investigation, but also, the same disorganisation. How often was it said that they had mumblety eleven tips, but they hadn't got the RIGHT one yet? I think a lot of things from early on got glanced at, filed, then they'd call for new tips. How often were those early tips pulled out and combed over? I suspect not as often as they ought to have been.

MOO

It would be shocking if they used the same methods to document and analyze cases now as in the 70s.

I would have thought ppl positioning themselves on the bridge during that afternoon would be among the most pertinent tips. Could there have been more than even 100 names to investigate?

Honestly, taking those names with regular expressions against the population of Delphi would have solved that with some data processing. I mean, I hope the population dataset is information readily available to LE?

 

[mrjitty]

Thank you mrjitty for explaining that. What in the world!?? That Due Process Gang are just out of control and they're partly made up of lawyers!? What a sad bunch, going after the families now. All this for a man who wants to confess to the brutal murders of two young girls. How much more dastardly scheming by friends and co-workers of the DT are these families going to have to endure? It's hearbreaking </3 AJMO

Brett and Alice talked about this ethical line in the Legal Briefs podcast I posted upthread.

Brett argued that at least as far as B&R go, they have the mandate to defend RA in any way they can. But as for the rest of them, they are outsiders to the case - so why are they promoting theories that are not true or lack any credible evidence? There are real victims here!

MOO.

 

[katydid23]

It would be shocking if they used the same methods to document and analyze cases now as in the 70s.

I would have thought ppl positioning themselves on the bridge during that afternoon would be among the most pertinent tips. Could there have been more than even 100 of those to investigate?

Honestly, taking those names with regular expressions against the population of Delphi would have solved that. I mean, I hope that is information readily available to LE?

I think it is important to remember that RA did not go talk to any of the investigators or police officers. He met very informally with a fish and game warden---a conservation officer. That guy was not front and center on the case. That was intentional on RA's part, imo.

The conservation officer just jotted down his notes and it seems like he saw this as a local who came forward to help but he didn't really see anything so whatever...

If it had been one of the police officers or investigators the interview would have been more in-depth, once he said he was on the bridge that afternoon. IMO

 

[snarast]

I think it is important to remember that RA did not go talk to any of the investigators or police officers. He met very informally with a fish and game warden---a conservation officer. That guy was not front and center on the case. That was intentional on RA's part, imo.

The conservation officer just jotted down his notes and it seems like he saw this as a local who came forward to help but he didn't really see anything so whatever...

If it had been one of the police officers or investigators the interview would have been more in-depth, once he said he was on the bridge that afternoon. IMO

I guess you can’t underestimate the importance of data collection.

Did you get info from a local or a junkie or a sex worker? It’s still data - just log it.

And the notion that he didn’t see anything. He was there. That is highly relevant information by any standard.

In fact, the population density in the immediate area is crucial in order to understand anything about the case.

 

[grannygates]

I think it is important to remember that RA did not go talk to any of the investigators or police officers. He met very informally with a fish and game warden---a conservation officer. That guy was not front and center on the case. That was intentional on RA's part, imo.

The conservation officer just jotted down his notes and it seems like he saw this as a local who came forward to help but he didn't really see anything so whatever...

If it had been one of the police officers or investigators the interview would have been more in-depth, once he said he was on the bridge that afternoon. IMO

He called in to the tip line and someone was sent to talk to him. I don’t think that RA got to select which officer was dispatched to meet with him. MOO

 

[katydid23]

I guess you can’t underestimate the importance of data collection.

Did you get info from a local or a junkie or a sex worker? It’s still data - just log it.

And the notion that he didn’t see anything. He was there. That is highly relevant information by any standard.

I agree it was HIGHLY relevant information. That was my point---a conservation officer evidently didn't know what to do with that highly relevant info. I think an investigator would have recognised its importance and wouldn't have filed it away before following up more in depth. IMO

 

[katydid23]

He called in to the tip line and someone was sent to talk to him. I don’t think that RA got to select which officer was dispatched to meet with him. MOO

I never heard that part, where does it say that? I must have missed it.

 

[Andieinsyd]

I think that if the confessions are allowed, RA may plead guilty to being BG, so two of the murder counts.
Either he, or his wife and mother didn’t want them to hear the details of the actual murders on afternoon of day 3. As per MS day 3 recording they left before State’s blood expert to spare themselves. We have learned that wife and mother are extremely important to RA. If he says he is BG he can perhaps allow them to keep their belief that he didn’t do it, he’s been set up. I think in their minds they will be able to muddy the waters enough to assign victim status and move forward with that. They will keep that, he keeps them and they don’t have to confront the truth of what he did.
From what I have now heard I think the evidence is there, so RA has very little chance of being acquitted at trial. I don’t think he will want his family to see the absolute brutality of these crimes.

 

[sunshineray]

This is two different people. The civilian FBI entered the tip in the system, she didn’t write the tip. DD collected the info and wrote the tip.

The FBI confirmed that the tip was not misfiled and the clerk followed the correct protocol. I don’t consider DD putting the wrong surname on his report as “misfiling” by the FBI. It’s DD recording information inaccurately in his report.

This inaccurate recording of the surname then questions the accuracy of the rest of the information in the tip written by DD.
MOO

Where are you seeing that it was DD that wrote it wrong? Can you link it please? TIA

 

[Andieinsyd]

Which LE ? The article is directly quoting the murder sheet people

‘Clerical error’ may have led police to overlook Richard Allen in Delphi case

DELPHI, Ind. – Why now? That’s one of the biggest questions surrounding the arrest of Richard Allen, who’s charged with murdering Abby Williams and Libby German in February 2017. It appears a “cler…

fox59.com

I don’t think we can know without seeing the original tip. I think that transposing a street name as a last name is more likely a data entry error myself but it’s one of the unknowns. For me, the the tip is still valid, the information is all there. I’m so interested to hear the data evidence around RAs phones.
ETA I also think that the DD tip was taken prior to setup of current system so the error was made getting tip into “big” system.
MOO

 

[sunshineray]

I think that if the confessions are allowed, RA may plead guilty to being BG, so two of the murder counts.
Either he, or his wife and mother didn’t want them to hear the details of the actual murders on afternoon of day 3. As per MS day 3 recording they left before State’s blood expert to spare themselves. We have learned that wife and mother are extremely important to RA. If he says he is BG he can perhaps allow them to keep their belief that he didn’t do it, he’s been set up. I think in their minds they will be able to muddy the waters enough to assign victim status and move forward with that. They will keep that, he keeps them and they don’t have to confront the truth of what he did.
From what I have now heard I think the evidence is there, so RA has very little chance of being acquitted at trial. I don’t think he will want his family to see the absolute brutality of these crimes.

His mother and wife we're always telling him they didn't want to hear it, his confessions. They also didn't want to reassure him they'd love him even if he confessed. I think it became a choice between doing what he knows is the right thing to do or losing his family's love. They, IMO, are in full denial mode outwardly but know deep down, because of all the evidence, he's guilty. I think this DT has done a great disservice to everyone by not sorting that situation out. Instead they made up fantastical stories, wasting time, money and hearts. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

I don’t think we can know without seeing the original tip. I think that transposing a street name as a last name is more likely a data entry error myself but it’s one of the unknowns. For me, the the tip is still valid, the information is all there. I’m so interested to hear the data evidence around RAs phones.
ETA I also think that the DD tip was taken prior to setup of current system so the error was made getting tip into “big” system.
MOO

Those are exactly my feelings on the matter too.