Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #191

[SouthEnd]

Neither of those sketches are a strong likeliness - you could have both images surrounding him and it still wouldn't be obvious.

There is no way I would have gone in to CVS and pointed him out with either drawing.

JMO

Hand drawn police sketches are *notoriously* inaccurate. Various sources give you different percentages of accuracy but omg. It is bad, as low as less than 10% of sketches are identifiable as the person they were trying to depict. The psychology of police sketches — and why they're usually wrong

I have participated in a workshop where we got to try out the computer generated composites a few years back and actually, the majority of the group of non-trained participants were able to produce some amazingly similar composites. A shame it is not standard practice in the US yet (as far as I know).

Anyone remember the golden state killer sketches? Exactly. I wouldn't put too much weight on how much they match the person. At least one of them reasonably close to BG. IMO.

 

[TTF14]

Did anybody see more than one man? Big leap there.

I think it’s a bigger leap to assume that all of the differing descriptions were of the same man. IMO MOO

ETA: That’s just how I would feel and think as a juror.

 

[grannygates]

I think there would have to be more than one man on the trails that day statistically, if KG estimated 20-30 people present (either during drop off or the entire day, whichever she meant) There were many more than just the PCA witnesses.

There was a young man that allegedly resembled YBG witnessed near the private drive that morning at 8:30am. So it makes you wonder if that’s a coincidence or if YBG stayed near the bridge or did he pace the trails all day?

(pg79-80 FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host )

 

[katydid23]

The exact description of what RA said he was wearing, from the PCA for his arrest:

He told investigators that he was wearing blue jeans and blue or black
Carhartt jacket with hood. He advised he may have been wearing
some type of head covering as well.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

If you add that accurate description of his clothing to pictures of him wearing bluejeans, and seeing how short his legs are and the way his jeans fit, he looks so similar to the BG picture, IMO.
AND he places himself there on the bridge, during the same time as the girls were known to be there.

 

[photographer4]

Oh, definitely agree.

Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable, particularly before the fact…before the murders are known, and the eyewitnesses had no particular reason at the time to studiously observe this random man on the bridge.

That’s why I’ve never been much disturbed by the two different sketches. While sketches may or may not be helpful, the VIDEO is undeniable.

Does the video say “hello, my name is RA and I’m on the way to kill those two girls I just saw?” No, it doesn’t. It does, however, provide the framework for what the BG looks like, the one who either uttered (as I believe) or overhead someone right next to him, as the voice is audible, says “G, DTH.”

I’ve posted before, and so have thousands of other posts, that while the video cannot definitively identify RA as BG, it does provide valuable evidence as to BG’s physical appearance and apparel.

That evidence, coinciding with RA’s confirmation that he was on the bridge at the approximate time as the girls, IMO makes it much more likely that RA=BG=murderer.

I also agree and posted way back yonder that if BG is an innocent passerby, but clearly was in audio range of a man whose voice we hear RIGHT THERE ordering the girls down the bridge, then an innocent BG should’ve and would’ve raced to tell LE what he’d heard once the murders were discovered. But that didn’t happen…so…

That, plus my very strong feeling that an innocent man would not try to prohibit evidence being gathered from his home, lead me to this conclusion.

All JMO

Well, about this, and with great respect to you as a fellow member, I encourage you (and everyone here!) to read the Kauffman Report. Anyone who doesn’t think the police or the State are capable of making egregious errors, or having tunnel vision to the point of convicting the wrong person should really see how the Guy Paul Morin case unfolded in Canada: Canada: Kaufman Inquiry Guy Paul Morin - Background Facts

Imagine being an innocent man and your statements seem to make you guilty? You have an alibi, confirmed by your mother. You don’t help with the search and you are the guy police think did it. Look at the way this case was handled and mishandled and how easy it could be for anyone accused of a crime to be convicted.

 

[photographer4]

Neither of those sketches are a strong likeliness - you could have both images surrounding him and it still wouldn't be obvious.

There is no way I would have gone in to CVS and pointed him out with either drawing.

JMO

I would not have either. But sketches are just someone’s description translated into a drawing. It must be a hard job to make these sketches!! I think there is a website that shows what the sketches looked like of various criminals somewhere - it was interesting!!

Here are some links for fun. This makes me aware that some sketch artists are amazing and work well with the witnesses to get great detail and accuracy while others unfortunately, just don’t quite get there despite best efforts of all concerned:

Police Sketches Vs Mug Shots

www.businessinsider.com

Here Are 14 Infamous Serial Killers And Their Actual Police Composite Sketches

Safe to say that the initial sketches aren't always exactly *spot-on.*

www.buzzfeed.com

 

[photographer4]

I think it’s a bigger leap to assume that all of the differing descriptions were of the same man. IMO MOO

ETA: That’s just how I would feel and think as a juror.

Yeah I am really not sure how the sketches went from older man to younger guy with puffy hair??? If BG was NOT described as wearing the hat in the old Bg sketch then why did it appear in the sketch? If he WAS described in such a hat, why is it missing from the second sketch? Do jurors just have to assume he removed it or added this in between sightings?

 

[MiniMoo]

I would not have either. But sketches are just someone’s description translated into a drawing. It must be a hard job to make these sketches!! I think there is a website that shows what the sketches looked like of various criminals somewhere - it was interesting!!

Here are some links for fun. This makes me aware that some sketch artists are amazing and work well with the witnesses to get great detail and accuracy while others unfortunately, just don’t quite get there despite best efforts of all concerned:

Police Sketches Vs Mug Shots

www.businessinsider.com

Here Are 14 Infamous Serial Killers And Their Actual Police Composite Sketches

Safe to say that the initial sketches aren't always exactly *spot-on.*

www.buzzfeed.com

I do believe that the sketchers are doing the best jobs that they can with the details that they are given, but some drawings unfortunately are off and nothing like the person.

I have seen one or two good ones at times in something like crime documentaries, but it would be great if there were more.

 

[MiniMoo]

Hand drawn police sketches are *notoriously* inaccurate. Various sources give you different percentages of accuracy but omg. It is bad, as low as less than 10% of sketches are identifiable as the person they were trying to depict. The psychology of police sketches — and why they're usually wrong

I have participated in a workshop where we got to try out the computer generated composites a few years back and actually, the majority of the group of non-trained participants were able to produce some amazingly similar composites. A shame it is not standard practice in the US yet (as far as I know).

Anyone remember the golden state killer sketches? Exactly. I wouldn't put too much weight on how much they match the person. At least one of them reasonably close to BG. IMO.

That workshop would have been so cool to be a part of - it is good to hear that non-trained participants did so well and a majority of them.

The computer software and features it has would contain all kinds of mouth, eye and eyebrow shapes as well as skin tones - every possible human feature.

Was it quick to produce a composite based on details given or even just trying it out to see what one could do with it?

 

[Boxer]

Here is the type of killer who does it once.

Suspect ID'd in teen's 1996 murder, but he dies by suicide hours after police question him

DNA has identified a suspect in the 1996 cold case murder of a 15-year-old girl in Montana.

abcnews.go.com

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Agree. I also think the "image known as BG" looks nothing like RA (or an actual human being at all). IMO MOO

Not a human?
What are you thinking then?
Aliens, robots, interdimensional beings…..?
I have no idea what you’re trying to say?

 

[MiniMoo]

This makes me aware that some sketch artists are amazing and work well with the witnesses to get great detail and accuracy while others unfortunately, just don’t quite get there despite best efforts of all concerned:

Police Sketches Vs Mug Shots

www.businessinsider.com

I can actually see the likeness in most of the ones in the first link - with some of them the eyes, hair or even face shape may be a bit out, but you can actually see the person in those sketches when side by side with an actual photograph.

Definitely a strong likeness.

RA isn't like either of those two sketches, but it doesn't mean the sketcher wasn't doing their job.

Like you more or less said - some are amazing with details and the witnesses whereas others just don't quite get it right even with the best of efforts.

 

[MiniMoo]

@photographer4

With that first sketch and photo for image one in link 2 was that sketch done when he was younger?

 

[photographer4]

I think there would have to be more than one man on the trails that day statistically, if KG estimated 20-30 people present (either during drop off or the entire day, whichever she meant) There were many more than just the PCA witnesses.

There was a young man that allegedly resembled YBG witnessed near the private drive that morning at 8:30am. So it makes you wonder if that’s a coincidence or if YBG stayed near the bridge or did he pace the trails all day?

(pg79-80 FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host )

Point 43: when did the officer (Purdy) notice that the TL sketch resembled the photo of EF? Was this before or after they questioned EF? What reason did LE to have a photo of EF? Had they had run-ins with EF previously so he was already familiar to them??

 

[MiniMoo]

Back to witnesses on that ill fated day...

With those minors that saw a man on the trail on Feb 13th, 2017, I would like to know why did they think he was creepy.

Was it one of them? Two? Or after discussion did they all feel the same way about him?

How much of their account was recorded (written) and in detail.

I would like to know what about that man made him feel creepy to them on that day?

What I view as creepy could be very different to how others view creepy, but what to them made it so.

 

[grannygates]

Yeah I am really not sure how the sketches went from older man to younger guy with puffy hair??? If BG was NOT described as wearing the hat in the old Bg sketch then why did it appear in the sketch? If he WAS described in such a hat, why is it missing from the second sketch? Do jurors just have to assume he removed it or added this in between sightings?

I’m so confused because YBG was seen by BB on the bridge and OBG seen by SC on the road.. OBG comes out first, they decide via investigation he’s not a POI, so then change of direction to YBG.. but now they’re the same person and using them both to make the timeline.


It was initially believed the sketch that has been in public view over the last two years of a person in the age range of his 40s to 50s was a person of interest in the murder investigation," state police said. "Now, as the investigation has matured and past information has been reassessed, it is the belief of investigators with the multi-agency task force that the person depicted in the sketch released on April 22 more accurately represents the person wanted for the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German."

• They are not the same person
• The person depicted in the originally released sketch is not presently a person of interest in this investigation
• The sketch released on April 22nd is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cell phone as he was walking on the high bridge
• The person in the sketch released April 22nd is described as having a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20’s to late 30’s
• This person’s appearance could look different today if he has grown a mustache, beard or let his hair grow longer or cut his hair shorter than depicted in the sketch

ISP: Person in first Delphi sketch is not a person of interest in Libby & Abby's murders

Indiana State Police are now saying the new sketch of the Delphi suspect is their current person of interest and the first sketch - released two years ago - is not a person of interest at this time.

www.wrtv.com

 

[photographer4]

@photographer4

With that first sketch and photo for image one in link 2 was that sketch done when he was younger?

I’m afraid I don’t know.

 

[grannygates]

Point 43: when did the officer (Purdy) notice that the TL sketch resembled the photo of EF? Was this before or after they questioned EF? What reason did LE to have a photo of EF? Had they had run-ins with EF previously so he was already familiar to them??

This was during his deposition Aug21/2023, so the comparison was re:this case, not during the initial investigation. The defense showed Purdy a picture of E during his deposition.

I’m not able to find a part where they say what actually happened with the tip/sketch in the end.

MOO

(Link to exhibits list for date of depo)

Exhibits list.pdf.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - Exhibits list.pdf.pdf - Sarah Easter

pdfhost.io

 

[katydid23]

Well, about this, and with great respect to you as a fellow member, I encourage you (and everyone here!) to read the Kauffman Report. Anyone who doesn’t think the police or the State are capable of making egregious errors, or having tunnel vision to the point of convicting the wrong person should really see how the Guy Paul Morin case unfolded in Canada: Canada: Kaufman Inquiry Guy Paul Morin - Background Facts

Imagine being an innocent man and your statements seem to make you guilty? You have an alibi, confirmed by your mother. You don’t help with the search and you are the guy police think did it. Look at the way this case was handled and mishandled and how easy it could be for anyone accused of a crime to be convicted.

There are also some cases where they overlooked the guilty man, who was right there in plain sight. Sometimes wives and mothers lie for the alibis, and police will believe them. So the possible egregious error can work both ways.

Investigating crimes is not easy. Sometimes there is bad luck or stupid mistakes and things can go sideways. A lot of bad things happened at the beginning of this case but I do believe they finally found their man. IMO

 

[photographer4]

This was during his deposition Aug21/2023, so the comparison was re:this case, not during the initial investigation. The defense showed Purdy a picture of E during his deposition.

I’m not able to find a part where they say what actually happened with the tip/sketch in the end.

MOO

(Link to exhibits list for date of depo)

Exhibits list.pdf.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - Exhibits list.pdf.pdf - Sarah Easter

pdfhost.io

So they had a whole person seen by TL right? But she doesn’t seem to have contributed to the PCA to my knowledge? So did LE just conclude this random man in a blue jacket without a hat wasn’t relevant because he was seen so early in the day compared to when the kids were marched off the bridge?

Is it possible he’s been sketched out?