Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #191

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Salah11 said:

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org www.documentcloud.org

3 young girls saw Richard Allen on the trails and obviously if there is a grand conspiracy then they would also be involved quite clearly as they saw him after taking a photo of a bench at 1.26pm which places him on the trails at 1.30 like his original statement said.

Hence why this conspiracy is so absolutely ridiculous and he isn’t being set up. IMHO
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Objectively, they saw someone. It’s possible they saw RA. We could even say likely since he reported that he saw some kids there as well. But how did they identify that it was specifically RA vs literally any other man who may have been lurking about that day? Did LE do some sort of lineup? Did they show the kids photos? If yes to either, were the men brought in / photos shown one by one or was a a group presented at the same time? What sort of questions did LE ask if the kids were asked to do a lineup? EG: did police say: who did you see that day (which implies the guy they saw IS in the lineup, even if he might not be and which is leading the witness). A lot of people have noted that RA looks a lot like any other guy - sometimes even like some of the other possible suspects that LE have discussed in public in the past, but who’s names I do not remember so I cannot share. How are the kids certain they saw RA? HOW certain are they on a scale of 1-10 with ten being absolute certainty?

Did they ask RA which kids he saw? Was he ever shown their faces or asked to describe them?

It’s likely RA saw the kids, and the kids saw him, but I’d like some more information before I hang him based on that alone.

No links… so examples only and MOOOO
 
StarryStarryNight said:
Early on, after RA’s arrest, if I remember correctly, the defense attorney made a statement that RA was factually innocent.
It’s been almost two years and I haven’t heard one single fact indicating RA is innocent.


Edit: typo
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Yep I mean they can not even give him an alibi which speaks volumes on his innocents.

IMO
 
photographer4 said:
Objectively, they saw someone. It’s possible they saw RA. We could even say likely since he reported that he saw some kids there as well. But how did they identify that it was specifically RA vs literally any other man who may have been lurking about that day? Did LE do some sort of lineup? Did they show the kids photos? If yes to either, were the men brought in / photos shown one by one or was a a group presented at the same time? What sort of questions did LE ask if the kids were asked to do a lineup? EG: did police say: who did you see that day (which implies the guy they saw IS in the lineup, even if he might not be and which is leading the witness). A lot of people have noted that RA looks a lot like any other guy - sometimes even like some of the other possible suspects that LE have discussed in public in the past, but who’s names I do not remember so I cannot share. How are the kids certain they saw RA? HOW certain are they on a scale of 1-10 with ten being absolute certainty?

Did they ask RA which kids he saw? Was he ever shown their faces or asked to describe them?

It’s likely RA saw the kids, and the kids saw him, but I’d like some more information before I hang him based on that alone.

No links… so examples only and MOOOO
Click to expand...


Well, I am guessing they know who they saw because he is BG. So they would know from the visuals of the video that he was who they saw.


Then add in the fact RA seemingly saw the same group of girls. Also, not forgetting, he said in his first statement, he got to the trails at 1.30pm, I believe, and that’s literally when the girls would have seen him (within a few mins, give or take).

I personally have zero doubts that he saw those girls and they saw him that afternoon.


ALL MOOOOOOOOO
 
photographer4 said:
Objectively, they saw someone. It’s possible they saw RA. We could even say likely since he reported that he saw some kids there as well. But how did they identify that it was specifically RA vs literally any other man who may have been lurking about that day? Did LE do some sort of lineup? Did they show the kids photos? If yes to either, were the men brought in / photos shown one by one or was a a group presented at the same time? What sort of questions did LE ask if the kids were asked to do a lineup? EG: did police say: who did you see that day (which implies the guy they saw IS in the lineup, even if he might not be and which is leading the witness). A lot of people have noted that RA looks a lot like any other guy - sometimes even like some of the other possible suspects that LE have discussed in public in the past, but who’s names I do not remember so I cannot share. How are the kids certain they saw RA? HOW certain are they on a scale of 1-10 with ten being absolute certainty?

Did they ask RA which kids he saw? Was he ever shown their faces or asked to describe them?

It’s likely RA saw the kids, and the kids saw him, but I’d like some more information before I hang him based on that alone.

No links… so examples only and MOOOO
Click to expand...
I believe if there were positive photo line up IDs this will come out in trial.

Personally, I find eyewitness testimony of medium to low value because of many reasons that have been stated above but if BARD is a weight to be reached, they add to it (only if there was positive or non exclusionary identification)

HOWEVER. In my opinion and the opinion of prosecutors (anecdotally) a case gets weaker to prosecute the more time passes because memories: fade. Footage: gets written over. Phones: change and so on and so on. Witnesses: sadly pass away.

That's one of the reasons IMO the prosecution is very motivated to have the trial as soon as possible. Generally, a case gets weaker as time passes, not stronger.
 
Salah11 said:
Well, I am guessing they know who they saw because he is BG. So they would know from the visuals of the video that he was who they saw.


Then add in the fact RA seemingly saw the same group of girls. Also, not forgetting, he said in his first statement, he got to the trails at 1.30pm, I believe, and that’s literally when the girls would have seen him (within a few mins, give or take).

I personally have zero doubts that he saw those girls and they saw him that afternoon.


ALL MOOOOOOOOO
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Well they saw someone sure, but so far, seeing a guy at the trails who says he was at the trails that day… doesn’t make him BG. Makes him a dude at the trails that day. Hopefully there will be a really airtight case presented by the State to secure the conviction.
 
SouthEnd said:
I believe if there were positive photo line up IDs this will come out in trial.

Personally, I find eyewitness testimony of medium to low value because of many reasons that have been stated above but if BARD is a weight to be reached, they add to it (only if there was positive or non exclusionary identification)

HOWEVER. In my opinion and the opinion of prosecutors (anecdotally) a case gets weaker to prosecute the more time passes because memories: fade. Footage: gets written over. Phones: change and so on and so on. Witnesses: sadly pass away.

That's one of the reasons IMO the prosecution is very motivated to have the trial as soon as possible. Generally, a case gets weaker as time passes, not stronger.
Click to expand...
I do agree with your post here. Memories fade, and that doesn’t even have to take years. I don’t really rely on lineups either after having learned that the research shows many flaws with them (no link, so moo, but one only has to google the reliability of police line ups to get more information).
 
photographer4 said:
Well they saw someone sure, but so far, seeing a guy at the trails who says he was at the trails that day… doesn’t make him BG. Makes him a dude at the trails that day. Hopefully there will be a really airtight case presented by the State to secure the conviction.
Click to expand...

Well it does when they are dressed the same and can be placed on the bridge moments before the girls crossed.

Also very conveniently his gun ejected a bullet at the place where two girls were murdered.

ETA- link to back up my claims - I would hate to break the rules and get reported.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org www.documentcloud.org
 
tlcya said:
I believe he was (maybe still is) a conservation officer if I am not mistaken, so assume his work might take him to the Delphi area. But that is only an assumption on my part. also public records w IN DNR show him being given an award for something in 2007 and he was then stationed in district 3 which would include the Delphi area I believe.

The statement RA gave to DD in 2017 very early on in the case took place in a parking lot outside a local grocery, I am only assuming that took place in Delphi. I don't even think he was working the girls' case per se. He may have been pressed into assisting with LE in looking for witnesses in those early days but don't think he was actually part of the investigation.

from an article in 2022
Baldwin and Rozzi write that Allen gave a voluntary statement in February of 2017 to, “a Conservation Officer outside of the local grocery store,” detailing his presence on the Monon High Bridge the day Libby German and Abby Williams were murdered, that Allen was never contacted again by police . . .
https://fox59.com/indiana-news/defense-and-law-enforcement-spar-over-delphi-murders-investigation/

I think DD thought it was a big nothing, wrote up some notes, turned them over to the actual investigators and went on his merry way, never giving it another thought.

all of the above is JMO
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I think he must have been working the case since he was on stage at the first big presser, no?


1723241499176.png

1723241522932.png

Photos of Dan Dulin, for comparison, can be seen here: Yard signs offered as way to show local support for law enforcement - Carroll County Comet and here: Log into Facebook
 
Salah11 said:
Well it does when they are dressed the same and can be placed on the bridge moment before the girls crossed.


Also very conveniently his gun ejected a bullet at the place where two girls were murdered.
Click to expand...
That's the combination of evidence that move the scale, IMO.

If I was the defence I'd be putting all my effort and energy into systematically going through all the evidence and trying to call them into question instead of prosecuting BH. JMO
 
Salah11 said:
Well it does when they are dressed the same and can be placed on the bridge moments before the girls crossed.

Also very conveniently his gun ejected a bullet at the place where two girls were murdered.

ETA- link to back up my claims - I would hate to break the rules and get reported.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org www.documentcloud.org
Click to expand...

BBM.

Yes, very convenient. And not even remotely proven yet.

IMO MOO
 
SouthEnd said:
That's the combination of evidence that move the scale, IMO.

If I was the defence I'd be putting all my effort and energy into systematically going through all the evidence and trying to call them into question instead of prosecuting BH. JMO
Click to expand...
We agree here! I’d be finding whatever I could to show that RA left the area and went home (or wherever). This might be hard to find though (eg: like traffic cam footage? license plate scanners? A receipt from a store / gas station? Maybe a search he did on his PC that evening post getting home? How about a call or text to or from someone? How about a stock market check from his phone at the house? Maybe he went home and turned up the household heat manually from a device inside the home - anything????

I think unfortunately, he probably has no alibi (because he probably is some sort of guilty). Or he has one that is not easy to prove and the D haven’t been able to do so yet. What DOES he say he did after he left the trails?
 
FrostedGlass said:
The exact description of what RA said he was wearing, from the PCA for his arrest:

He told investigators that he was wearing blue jeans and blue or black
Carhartt jacket with hood. He advised he may have been wearing
some type of head covering as well.
Click to expand...


So dressed identical to BG in other words. Thats another big coincidence.

ETA - I forgot to mention he also coincidentally has the same overweight appearance and short stumpy legs.

IMHO
 
Salah11 said:
So dressed identical to BG in other words. Thats another big coincidence.

ETA - I forgot to mention he also coincidentally has the same overweight appearance and short stumpy legs.

IMHO
Click to expand...
Not if he was wearing a black jacket with a hood. "May" have been wearing some type of head covering (or "may" not). He never said he was wearing a face covering.

BB didn't mention that the young guy with poofy hair she saw on the bridge wore a jacket with a hood.
 
SouthEnd said:
I believe if there were positive photo line up IDs this will come out in trial.

Personally, I find eyewitness testimony of medium to low value because of many reasons that have been stated above but if BARD is a weight to be reached, they add to it (only if there was positive or non exclusionary identification)

HOWEVER. In my opinion and the opinion of prosecutors (anecdotally) a case gets weaker to prosecute the more time passes because memories: fade. Footage: gets written over. Phones: change and so on and so on. Witnesses: sadly pass away.

That's one of the reasons IMO the prosecution is very motivated to have the trial as soon as possible. Generally, a case gets weaker as time passes, not stronger.
Click to expand...
It wouldn’t have been possible to do a police lineup for the witnesses in 2017. There was no suspect.
 
steeltowngirl said:
It wouldn’t have been possible to do a police lineup for the witnesses in 2017. There was no suspect.
Click to expand...
Oh 100% - I imagine they tried to do some line-ups every time they had a POI. The fact that they didn't just pull some photos of known criminals out of their... files and tried to point a thumb over the guy they liked the least (from what we know) gives me some hope for the case.
 
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