Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #191

[sunshineray]

Well then perhaps there was enough evidence collected from those items marked as returned to convict.
Otherwise I cannot formulate why they would collect evidence for testing and not test.
JMO

I'd think sometimes things collected don't get tested but are stored until trial is over, then returned?

 

[sunshineray]

Yikes. With their track record, I hope they didn't rely on themselves to test anything.

IMO MOO

What track record would that be?

 

[sunshineray]

I would never presume to make a decision on someone's guilt BARD before a trial. We simply *don't have access to all the evidence*.

It's perfectly fine, IMO to say - I believe that the evidence leans this or that way, eg in the Idaho massacre case, IMO the evidence leans pretty hard against BK's innocence. But what frustrates me with this case is having so many leaks/public-oriented FMs that give ppl the impression that we have all the data. But we don't. The prosecution, IMO have been only revealing as little evidence as possible to argue against the DT's motion.

I'm interested in this case, and I'm the public, but I'm not interested in a trial via the public. If that makes sense.

RA has confessed over 60 times and made multitudes of incriminating statements. Before he did that, he put himself on the bridge, in the area, at the time of the murders wearing the same clothes as BG (before BG's photo was released IIRC), who police have stated is the killer of Abby and Libby. Should we not believe him? MO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Did you notice any reports in the media that contradict MS’s conclusions?

I didn't read their conclusions; I only glanced through and saw the numerous quotes from them.

 

[Andieinsyd]

Doesn't seem like any Trophies or Souvenirs from the girls were found among all that unless not listed.

It is highly unlikely the perpetrator, if he did take T & S's, would have gotten rid of anything if he didn't have to at all. It would have been done as a last resort and with immense reluctance and only if he felt threatened in some way.

Either those missing items from the girls may have been tossed in the creek and swept away or the perpetrator took them.

Did RA know he was going to be arrested when he was arrested in October of 2022?

Link:
Articles Of Clothing Missing

If RA is perpetrator I think it’s unlikely he would have kept any trophies in his home, or any devices that have incriminating evidence. I think he would have known that there is a reasonable chance that DD tip would come back at him at some point. And yes, I think he would have had a reasonable suspicion of arrest as soon as LE got back in touch.
What does puzzle me is that he kept his car, and I imagine (again if he is guilty) that he would have had concerns around blood evidence in the car and sold it at some point. Also kept the gun, although to be fair he may have thought safe as he didn’t use it, and the bullet wasn’t made public until PCA.

 

[FrostedGlass]

If the 3- day hearing had been favorable to the defense, would you have expected news reports to be silent and non-transparent? So it happens but it was anything but, even the testimony of defence witnesses was lacking in favor of the D.

How much money did the D collect from the public, what did they do to deserve that? MS gave up 3 days of their life to sit through the hearings, as did various media reporters who get paid by the company they work for.

MOO

I would not expect news reports to be silent and non-transparent. However, many do publish info that covers one side better than the other.

To my knowledge, the D did not pocket any of that money raised for experts. Do you have proof they did?
I believe the D took a loss in wages by accepting this case. OTOH, these other folks that you mention all make money for the work they put into this case.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Doesn't seem like any Trophies or Souvenirs from the girls were found among all that unless not listed.

It is highly unlikely the perpetrator, if he did take T & S's, would have gotten rid of anything if he didn't have to at all. It would have been done as a last resort and with immense reluctance and only if he felt threatened in some way.

Either those missing items from the girls may have been tossed in the creek and swept away or the perpetrator took them.

Did RA know he was going to be arrested when he was arrested in October of 2022?

Link:
Articles Of Clothing Missing

Considering the missing clothing, I wonder why they didn't include/take any underwear or socks from RA's home. There were likely 2 pairs of underwear; where is the other pair? Have we even accounted for all the clothing the girls were wearing that day?

 

[katydid23]

HARMFUL IMPACT OF SOLITARY CONFINEMENT.

December 2020:

"On a given day last year, an estimated 55,000 to 62,500 people had spent the previous 15 days in solitary confinement in state and federal prisons, often in cells smaller than a parking space.
Correctional officials often defend their frequent use of solitary confinement as an effective means of maintaining order and deterring violence and gang activity. But this reliance on solitary ignores the abundance of studies demonstrating the harmful and often long-lasting effects it wreaks on the human mind and body."

FURTHER DOWN:

"The effects of solitary confinement on mental health can be lethal. Even though people in solitary confinement comprise only 6% to 8% of the total prison population, they account for approximately half of those who die by suicide."

And there is more - quite educational to read.

I don't think we are talking about 15 days where Richard Allen is concerned - there is a difference between being kept safe for one's own protection and someone being confined in a prison within a prison for months on end (A-Pod) with limited access to anything in a highly stressful environment (maximum security prison).

I feel it would be detrimental to anyone put in the same situation.

15 days is one thing, but months on end is quite another.

Link:
Solitary Confinement Long Lasting Harm.

Have you ever heard of anyone in 'solitary confinement' having the ability to call their wife or parents from their own tablet from their cell? Or anyone else they wanted to call, like their attorney or their friends?

Have you ever heard of anyone in 'solitary confinement' having a tablet so they can watch movies, or listen to music, or take classes, or order a book ob kindle, whenever they felt like it?

Have you ever heard of someone in 'solitary confinement' having trustees, sitting right at their door, talking or listening to them, 24/7? That does not sound like they were very solitary.

These articles you refer to are talking about people with NO CONTACT OR COMMUNICATION with friends or loved ones. No ability to watch films or listen to music or podcasts, etc. He can do ALL of the above whenever he wants to.

 

[FrostedGlass]

RA has confessed over 60 times and made multitudes of incriminating statements. Before he did that, he put himself on the bridge, in the area, at the time of the murders wearing the same clothes as BG (before BG's photo was released IIRC), who police have stated is the killer of Abby and Libby. Should we not believe him? MO

Interesting question you have: "Should we not believe him?"

He said he shot the girls in the back. In an interview with LE (I assume it was recorded) he said he was on the trial between noon and 1:30 pm. He appeared to be unsure of the color of the coat he was wearing or if he was wearing a head covering. He said it wasn't his gun. Should we not believe him?

 

[sunshineray]

Have you ever heard of anyone in 'solitary confinement' having the ability to call their wife or parents from their own tablet from their cell? Or anyone else they wanted to call, like their attorney or their friends?

Have you ever heard of anyone in 'solitary confinement' having a tablet so they can watch movies, or listen to music, or take classes, or order a book ob kindle, whenever they felt like it?

Have you ever heard of someone in 'solitary confinement' having trustees, sitting right at their door, talking or listening to them, 24/7? That does not sound like they were very solitary.

These articles you refer to are talking about people with NO CONTACT OR COMMUNICATION with friends or loved ones. No ability to watch films or listen to music or podcasts, etc. He can do ALL of the above whenever he wants to.

Well he probably can't do those things now in county jail? Are inmates there allowed to have their own stuff in the cell?

 

[Andieinsyd]

Considering the missing clothing, I wonder why they didn't include/take any underwear or socks from RA's home. There were likely 2 pairs of underwear; where is the other pair? Have we even accounted for all the clothing the girls were wearing that day?

There were also multiple pieces of clothing missing from the scene, including underwear and a sock. There is no mention of those items being recovered in any searches of property.
Delphi Murders Case: Judge unseals more than 100 documents

Clothes found in the creek have not been verified I don’t think.

 

[FrostedGlass]

RSBM

Sure - there is no reason to think this form is some bible of what has been tested IMO

I totally agree with you. We know they have evidence from the scene that they have tested.

The search warrant and the return, while not a bible, are certainly a chapter in the book. IMO

 

[sunshineray]

Interesting question you have: "Should we not believe him?"

He said he shot the girls in the back. In an interview with LE (I assume it was recorded) he said he was on the trial between noon and 1:30 pm. He appeared to be unsure of the color of the coat he was wearing or if he was wearing a head covering. He said it wasn't his gun. Should we not believe him?

Yeah the false confessions he made after he changed his mind because his wife and mother stopped communicating, wouldn't tell him they'd love him if he did confess, the ones IMO his lawyers probably told him he needed to spew so people would think none of them were truthful? No, I think the ones he told his wife and mother, his mental health doctor are probably the most accurate, the ones God told him he needed to make to save his soul. Those ones. The jury shall see and hear just how accurate and full of details, how heartfelt those were...I have faith in the jury will know the difference. AJMO

The shear number of his confessions, IMO, cannot be pooh-poohed away because he was in prison for safekeeping and not a county jail. I wonder how he's faring in there. If he's still confessing to anyone that will listen? MO

 

[ClearAhead]

I would not expect news reports to be silent and non-transparent. However, many do publish info that covers one side better than the other.

To my knowledge, the D did not pocket any of that money raised for experts. Do you have proof they did?
I believe the D took a loss in wages by accepting this case. OTOH, these other folks that you mention all make money for the work they put into this case.

Unfortunately once a case becomes high profile, the money factor grows as well. First comes fame and recognition which can yield future opportunities that generate money, probably what motivated R&B to take on this case IMO.

MSM knows their readership are attracted to true crime so their reporters cover criminal proceedings. But they have nothing to gain by distorting the reporting.

Since the very onset of this case the D has had a tendency to made a lot of highly inflammatory allegations that did receive a lot of media attention. However I think the recent hearing proved most of it wasn’t based on facts. I do hope the Judge issues her decisions soon because it’s the outcome of those hearings that matters most.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Considering the missing clothing, I wonder why they didn't include/take any underwear or socks from RA's home. There were likely 2 pairs of underwear; where is the other pair? Have we even accounted for all the clothing the girls were wearing that day?

We're sure to find out at trial. 6 long years is plenty of time to either dispose of or hide away those items. MO

 

[mrjitty]

I totally agree with you. We know they have evidence from the scene that they have tested.

The search warrant and the return, while not a bible, are certainly a chapter in the book. IMO

Sure. I guess i just find all of the scrutiny of these types of documents irrelevant.

What matters is the exhibits at trial, and related testimony.

We'll get the answers to all that in due course.

MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

Yeah the false confessions he made after he changed his mind because his wife and mother stopped communicating, wouldn't tell him they'd love him if he did confess, the ones IMO his lawyers probably told him he needed to spew so people would think none of them were truthful? No, I think the ones he told his wife and mother, his mental health doctor are probably the most accurate, the ones God told him he needed to make to save his soul. Those ones. The jury shall see and hear just how accurate and full of details, how heartfelt those were...I have faith in the jury will know the difference. AJMO

The shear number of his confessions, IMO, cannot be pooh-poohed away because he was in prison for safekeeping and not a county jail. I wonder how he's faring in there. If he's still confessing to anyone that will listen? MO

I cannot imagine even one reason why an innocent person would confess 61 times to murdering two teens - under any circumstances. Just by voicing it, each time he had to have personal awareness that he was capable of committing such an act. And 61 times? It can’t be written of as no big deal. It’s an open window to inside of RA’s head.

MOO

 

[Salah11]

He found religion and wanted to cleanse his soul. He wanted to be with his family in the afterlife and decided the best way to do that was by confessing.

It’s only after his family started to reject him he reverted back to the same selfish person he was before he found God.

ETA - people who find God wouldn’t lie about what they have done because they are trying to Atone for the evil they have committed. It’s about cleansing the souls after all. If he was innocent he would have nothing to Fear!!!

IMO

 

[MiniMoo]

Have you ever heard of anyone in 'solitary confinement' having the ability to call their wife or parents from their own tablet from their cell? Or anyone else they wanted to call, like their attorney or their friends?

Have you ever heard of anyone in 'solitary confinement' having a tablet so they can watch movies, or listen to music, or take classes, or order a book ob kindle, whenever they felt like it?

Have you ever heard of someone in 'solitary confinement' having trustees, sitting right at their door, talking or listening to them, 24/7? That does not sound like they were very solitary.

These articles you refer to are talking about people with NO CONTACT OR COMMUNICATION with friends or loved ones. No ability to watch films or listen to music or podcasts, etc. He can do ALL of the above whenever he wants.

If solitary confinement was so wholesome and good for inmates suicide watchers wouldn't be needed nor would there be such strong complaints against it.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Sure. I guess i just find all of the scrutiny of these types of documents irrelevant.

What matters is the exhibits at trial, and related testimony.

We'll get the answers to all that in due course.

MOO

Thanks. Your point of view is always interesting.

Since I want to know all the details, not just what the court decides I should hear, I think of the docs as the building blocks in the case.

I'm not sure how exhibits are played out.
If the search warrant is marked as Exhibit 1 and the return is marked as Exhibit 2, will they be introduced at trial?