Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #192

[mrjitty]

Just posting this as a general reminder about the Franks - see bolded from Judge Gulls ruling.

In Gull’s ruling regarding the Franks Hearing, she said “The Court finds the Affidavit submitted in support of the issuance of the search warrant contained information that a reasonable belief existed that evidence of the murders would be found in the defendant’s home and vehicles. The Court does not find that the Affidavit submitted false statements or that the Affiant omitted statements with reckless disregard, nor does the Court find that the Affiant intended to mislead the Judge by failing to present information. As the Court has found the Affidavit for issuance of the search warrant was valid, the search itself was reasonable and legal under Indiana law and Fourth Amendment case law.”

I make the same comment about the phone. As I understand the Murdersheet and other coverage, at no point did the state's witness say the phone was back turned on. Rather defence counsel asserted it. This is generally the problem with trying to litigate the case based on pleadings rather than trial evidence.

At trial, I suspect the phone's status is not going to be established via cell tower evidence, but from it's onboard logs. I am not sure how it is possible to reach a conclusion on these things before trial. Maybe there will be a hearing on digital pre trial.

MOO

Judge in Delphi murders case hands down multiple rulings

The special judge in the Delphi double murders case handed down several rulings Monday. Judge Francis Gull denied Richard Allen's motions.

www.wishtv.com

 

[grannygates]

Just posting this as a general reminder about the Franks - see bolded from Judge Gulls ruling.



I make the same comment about the phone. As I understand the Murdersheet and other coverage, at no point did the state's witness say the phone was back turned on. Rather defence counsel asserted it. This is generally the problem with trying to litigate the case based on pleadings rather than trial evidence.

At trial, I suspect the phone's status is not going to be established via cell tower evidence, but from it's onboard logs. I am not sure how it is possible to reach a conclusion on these things before trial. Maybe there will be a hearing on digital pre trial.

MOO

Judge in Delphi murders case hands down multiple rulings

The special judge in the Delphi double murders case handed down several rulings Monday. Judge Francis Gull denied Richard Allen's motions.

www.wishtv.com

This is the expert who just completed the updated cellebrite extraction a week before his depo. That was the third extraction that we know of. Wouldn’t the graykey or cellebrite programs just say what happened ? Am I missing something uniquely difficult here ? I don’t see how he can’t know if this is his expertise.



Also, Lawyer Lee does a good job of breaking down the legal arguments from both sides surrounding the phone pings, texts, etc. and also includes additional notes taken from the hearing, so I will share the link to her video if anyone is wanting to watch !

 

[sunshineray]

So what is going on here?

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

View attachment 524198

Interesting, is a change of plea on the horizon?

"A status conference in a criminal case is a meeting between the prosecuting attorney and defense attorney to discuss the status of the case, facilitate the exchange of information, and negotiate regarding a possible resolution. The judge may also be involved in the meeting, depending on the judge and the court."

STATUS CONFERENCE

blanchard.law

 

[susane7]

With all these discussions about BG or RA and the witnesses that spotted either a man dressed in blue, creepy man or muddy bloody man on or near the trail that day...

February 17th, 2017.

Did anyone see Abby and Libby anywhere along the trail or the bridge that day?

Just one person.

Two.


The killer - BG(RA imo) and BB.

 

[Niner]

I thought there were new dates or something since someone posted the cancellation part. That didn’t change then?

I "think" the first date of trial Oct. 14th was rescheduled to start on 10/15 - and the rest stay the same per the 2nd post above... I "think" !!

Do I have that correct??

 

[sunshineray]

Two.


The killer - BG(RA imo) and BB.

And Kelsei, she saw them enter the trails

 

[Megnut]

With all these discussions about BG or RA and the witnesses that spotted either a man dressed in blue, creepy man or muddy bloody man on or near the trail that day...

February 17th, 2017.

Did anyone see Abby and Libby anywhere along the trail or the bridge that day?

Just one person.

We can reverse it. Who did Abby and Libby see that day? They saw KG when they were dropped off, perhaps saw others in the parking lot. Along the path, it would seem they only saw one lady and one man who they commented on and then videotaped. We know he saw them because, given the setting, it would have been impossible for him not to have, considering he was walking right toward them. Interestingly, the Defense referred to the video as one containing AW and the supposed perpetrator, which gives us information we didn't have before but long suspected -- that AW was captured in the video too.

The girls must have felt, for a time, they had the whole park nearly to themselves.

Until he trapped them. With no one else around.

The terror is beyond comprehension.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

I have no idea if the phone was turned on at 4.30 am or not. But I am sceptical of bare assertion by defence counsel that it "must have been turned on" for the following reasons.

Often in these cases, we do not have the device, so tower evidence of what the phone was doing would be critical. But here we have the device, and presumably reports of the phone logs.

If the phone was really switched back on at 4.30am, then the CAST expert has known this all along. So it would have been a critical part of the investigation since the early days of 2017. And therefore all of that would be evidenced in various parts of discovery the defence now has. So why would the defence attorney not put those records to the witness?

Or if for some reason, that log evidence does not exist, why would the state have not reached the same conclusion as the defence 7 years ago?

Instead, as we saw from the witness, and the states response to the newer Franks, the state case is that one cannot draw that conclusion from the pings.

There has to be some reason why that is IMO

Frustratingly, there is little clear reporting on this aspect - and I am guessing the reason is, there was not actually any examination on what the phone logs say.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I "think" the first date of trial Oct. 14th was rescheduled to start on 10/15 - and the rest stay the same per the 2nd post above... I "think" !!

Do I have that correct??

The first set of dates is the one that the S&L asked for and was cancelled.
The second set is the one she chose for R&B.

She had other trial dates set but those are scattered throughout the CCS.

 

[MiniMoo]

And Kelsei, she saw them enter the trails

So, K dropped them off about 1:13 pm after a girls sleepover and pancakes for breakfast or brunch.

Does anyone else have a different time that K dropped the girls off?

The minors saw RA around 1:26 pm based off of the photograph one took.

So, was that man walking in the same direction the girls were walking in only 10-13 minutes behind?

Is it known where he entered the trail from.

 

[Salah11]

So, K dropped them off about 1:13 pm after a girls sleepover and pancakes for breakfast or brunch.

Does anyone else have a different time that K dropped the girls off?

The minors saw RA around 1:26 pm based off of the photograph one took.

So, was that man walking in the same direction the girls were walking in only 10-13 minutes behind?

Is it known where he entered the trail from.

The freedom bridge according to the PCA. He was there between 1.30-3.30pm.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

 

[TTF14]

So, K dropped them off about 1:13 pm after a girls sleepover and pancakes for breakfast or brunch.

Does anyone else have a different time that K dropped the girls off?

The minors saw RA around 1:26 pm based off of the photograph one took.

So, was that man walking in the same direction the girls were walking in only 10-13 minutes behind?

Is it known where he entered the trail from.

The family originally said they knew it was 1:38 or 1:39 based on phone records. The PCA says 1:49 based on HH camera. I haven't seen 1:13 anywhere.

JMO

 

[blueJayJay71]

No nothing has changed with the most recent trial date.

According to various lawfirms online, plea deals might be discussed at Status Hearings as well as the Judge checking on the status with both sides in their preparation for the trial.

I can't begin to tell any of you how unjust I feel for the victims when an offender has a choice for a 'plea deal.' They didn't have a choice,their pleas,if any went unanswered. What good came from taking the lives of two innocent children? Hells too good for this offender. Thank God the police got him. God bless them for their presistence on this case.

 

[FrostedGlass]

The family originally said they knew it was 1:38 or 1:39 based on phone records. The PCA says 1:49 based on HH camera. I haven't seen 1:13 anywhere.

JMO

I wonder how the P will work around that? I'm not convinced that their arrival time was 1:49; I do believe it was K's departure time. (Sort of)

BB's vehicle was spotted on the HHS cam at 1:46, which would place her arriving at the parking area after the girls were dropped off. If the girls were dropped off first, how did BB pass them where she said she did?

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

 

[steeltowngirl]

So, K dropped them off about 1:13 pm after a girls sleepover and pancakes for breakfast or brunch.

Does anyone else have a different time that K dropped the girls off?

The minors saw RA around 1:26 pm based off of the photograph one took.

So, was that man walking in the same direction the girls were walking in only 10-13 minutes behind?

Is it known where he entered the trail from.

The PCA states that the girls were dropped off at 1:49 pm

On Feb. 13, 2017, Abby and Libby were dropped off by Libby’s older sister, Kelsi German, at 1:49 p.m., near the entrance of the Delphi Historic Trial by the Mears farm, located on the north side of County Road 300 north.

Delphi Murders: Everything you want to know

Six years after the deaths of Abby Williams and Libby German, the alleged killer Richard Allen prepares for trial. Here's how he got here.

www.courttv.com

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

 

[MiniMoo]

The family originally said they knew it was 1:38 or 1:39 based on phone records. The PCA says 1:49 based on HH camera. I haven't seen 1:13 anywhere.

JMO

The PCA states that the girls were dropped off at 1:49 pm

On Feb. 13, 2017, Abby and Libby were dropped off by Libby’s older sister, Kelsi German, at 1:49 p.m., near the entrance of the Delphi Historic Trial by the Mears farm, located on the north side of County Road 300 north.

Delphi Murders: Everything you want to know

Six years after the deaths of Abby Williams and Libby German, the alleged killer Richard Allen prepares for trial. Here's how he got here.

www.courttv.com

View attachment 524276

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

Thanks for the clarification!

Been reading Reddit and a few other sites with Delphi information - have also seen 1:30 pm put as a time as well.

Time frames and timelines really are important as look what happens if a person has the incorrect information.

 

[Salah11]

I wonder how the P will work around that? I'm not convinced that their arrival time was 1:49; I do believe it was K's departure time. (Sort of)

BB's vehicle was spotted on the HHS cam at 1:46, which would place her arriving at the parking area after the girls were dropped off. If the girls were dropped off first, how did BB pass them where she said she did?

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

Because the Girls could have easily of lingered before starting there walk. Trust me I was a teenage girl and we get chatting or see something and stop. IMO

RA admits he went out to the first platform and BB can put him on that first platform standing there.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Thanks for the clarification!

Been reading Reddit and a few other sites with Delphi information - have also seen 1:30 pm put as a time as well.

Time frames and timelines really are important as look what happens if a person has the incorrect information.

They should have the time Libby called Derrick as she was being dropped off, to request a ride home later. They should also have Kelsi’s car on video leaving after the drop off. They may have all sat in the car for a few minutes before the girls exited the car.

jmo

 

[m00c0w]

I wonder how the P will work around that? I'm not convinced that their arrival time was 1:49; I do believe it was K's departure time. (Sort of)

BB's vehicle was spotted on the HHS cam at 1:46, which would place her arriving at the parking area after the girls were dropped off. If the girls were dropped off first, how did BB pass them where she said she did?

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

Why would her being seen on the camera before the girls were dropped off mean she was arriving at the parking area after the girls were dropped off? It sounds like they just missed each other. She walked to the bridge, turned around, was walking back, saw the girls on their way to the bridge. This seems to be consistent with her having arrived before the girls, which lines up with the times in the PCA.

All from your linked source

 

[sunshineray]

So, K dropped them off about 1:13 pm after a girls sleepover and pancakes for breakfast or brunch.

Does anyone else have a different time that K dropped the girls off?

The minors saw RA around 1:26 pm based off of the photograph one took.

So, was that man walking in the same direction the girls were walking in only 10-13 minutes behind?

Is it known where he entered the trail from.

I thought it was 1:46 or 1:48