Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #192

[TTF14]

The probable cause affidavit only says that the witness stated it appeared to him as though the car was "backed in as to conceal the license plate of the vehicle." So it was his unique opinion. If he takes the stand, I'm sure they would question him to expand on why he thought that backing in was an attempt to do that. I wonder if it was backed in in such a way that only the front part of the hood could be seen from some angles? This could explain why more than one witness thought something was odd about it, why their descriptions of the car varied, and why one witness thought it was a smaller car like a Smart car.

I'd like to know if the witness thought it was odd the way the car was parked (backed in) when they first saw it, or if they were prompted to say yes or no with a question like, "do you mean it was parked in such a way to hide the license plate?"

If backing into parking spots is evidence of a crime, my father escaped prosecution his entire life (and tried to teach me to do the same).

IMO MOO

 

[photographer4]

An agreement to plea guilty and explain what he did, in court. He's already done it elsewhere many many times. This case, IMO is nowhere near 50/50, at all. I wonder if the heated conversation at the bar at the close of the third hearing had anything to do with RA's new living conditions and new confessions. MO

Has he “confessed” since the end of the pretrials?? I should give up trying to catch up. Ugh.

 

[photographer4]

What is that part that I highlighted?

Who was having a heated convo at the bar?

I think she meant at the judge’s bench. Eg: “your honor may I approach the bench?” Mooo

 

[TTF14]

More curious than ever what was mentioned about this man.

DELPHI, Ind. (WTHR) - State police say more audio from Libby German's cell phone was played for the victims' families, including a mention of a man they noticed behind them.

Police say the girls mostly talk about "stuff girls talk about" in the recording, but they also mention the man. The only audio that has been released to the public from the phone is that of a man's voice ordering German and her friend, Abby Williams, "down the hill."

Has anyone come across an article or interview with either direct quotes from LE regarding this matter or audio/video where we can hear them say this for ourselves?

 

[justtrish]

If the man on the bridge is RA then it’s true “he’s not very tall” and is still walking with his hands in his pockets on the bridge. If this witnesses saw him in a shaded area his clothing could indeed appear black.

So IMO his young witness’s detailed memory will impress the heck out of the jury. The D wouldn’t dare rip her to shreds on the witness stand because they know how much jury’s hate that, especially if it causes her to break down.

In my view it’s us who are glaring at these young witnesses through a magnifying glass. But imagine for a second how horrific it must have been for them to find out later they were in almost the same place as the vicious kidnapped/murderer of Libby and Abby, who they probably knew. The trauma caused to them has to be very difficult

JMO

I wouldn't say "us" because not all of us are glaring at them at all. I think they are brave to come forward with what they saw. I also don't fault them for not having an exact detailed description because it's not like someone said beforehand to memorize what the creepy guy they encounter is wearing. They passed him, he stood out to them as creepy. He didn't speak and as a woman I know exactly how that feels to pass someone that gives off bad vibes then trying to make sure by saying hello and to get nothing back makes it even more scary to me. So they didn't memorize his clothing, they still had valuable info to share. BG even says he passed them so they just confirm his timeline.. he's walking along from that end of the trail to the other.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I'd like to know if the witness thought it was odd the way the car was parked (backed in) when they first saw it, or if they were prompted to say yes or no with a question like, "do you mean it was parked in such a way to hide the license plate?"

If backing into parking spots is evidence of a crime, my father escaped prosecution his entire life (and tried to teach me to do the same).

IMO MOO

I personally never backed in to hide my plates.
Making a quick exit was my priority.

 

[photographer4]

If the man on the bridge is RA then it’s true “he’s not very tall” and is still walking with his hands in his pockets on the bridge. If this witnesses saw him in a shaded area his clothing could indeed appear black.

So IMO his young witness’s detailed memory will impress the heck out of the jury. The D wouldn’t dare rip her to shreds on the witness stand because they know how much jury’s hate that, especially if it causes her to break down.

In my view it’s us who are glaring at these young witnesses through a magnifying glass. But imagine for a second how horrific it must have been for them to find out later they were in almost the same place as the vicious kidnapped/murderer of Libby and Abby, who they probably knew. The trauma caused to them has to be very difficult to overcome.

JMO

IMO if the state puts them on the stand, then they’re fair game to the D team. I would rip them to shreds if I were RA’s lawyer. It’s not their job to worry about the mental anguish of the witnesses imo. Their only worry is RA. The jury may not like it. But that’s always a risk. You can’t always accomplish the task without risking making someone upset. IMO if a witness falls apart on the stand, if their testimony falls down with them, then I’m ok with that. A strong witness can still fall apart and be emotional but their statement won’t change and they’ll rebuke any suggestions by counsel that they didn’t see what they think or said they did.

 

[TTF14]

I personally never backed in to hide my plates.
Making a quick exit was my priority.

Making a safer exit is what I was taught .

 

[FrostedGlass]

I think she meant at the judge’s bench. Eg: “your honor may I approach the bench?” Mooo

Boy did I misunderstand that one! Thanks for the clarification.

 

[grannygates]

Being aligned with the Prosecution really does take faith.

It might seem that all of those that believe RA is the right person to stand trial are blindly accepting all the P says as truth. That really isn't the case.

Many on this forum have been critical of LE over the years.

But, regardless, here we are 7 and a half years later, and each of us now have basically made a choice on whether or not RA is the man who approached the girls and led them to their deaths


LE has made mistakes. This case should not have taken this long to be where it is.

I hope that we can all agree that there was no rush to judgement.

To approve of the DT and their accusations requires people to believe that every person that worked tirelessly for years are in reality framing a small town pharmacy technician. That just doesn't make sense. That would include investigators, attorneys, judges, witnesses , the families, medical personnel and even the coroner.( Among others)

The Prosecutor has respected the gag order. So, for those that support the P and LE are going with the facts set forward and are willing to wait for trial.
The
Prosecution have been accused of withholding evidence and hiding exculpatory evidence.

In reality, it has been shown that the DT has had access to discovery and ' missed " it somehow while crying foul play. The missing exculpatory evidence doesn't or hasn't yet been proven to be exculpatory. We know that the DT blames Heathens that were looked at, investigated and ultimately dismissed.



The DT has been willing to share information about the crime that should have been left for trial. They are quite theatrical and raised conspiracy theories that have potentially tainted the jury pool.

Blaming people and publicly naming them feels like a dirty trick. It has made them ( the DT) appear devious and shameless.

We all know that legally RA is innocent until proven guilty, but none of us will be on the jury, so our opinions are allowed.

This case seemed like it could have gone cold. Thank goodness LE kept working. They never gave up.

It seems inconceivable that all of that work would end up framing an innocent man.


AJMO

I don’t think that it’s ever been stated that these people were dismissed. Ignored maybe? From what I’m understanding the EF search warrant was prepared and then ignored by UC and 1 of the 6 people have an alibi of a work email. The others got nothing including the guy who confessed.

It definitely seems like these guys should have been investigated further since LE already spent years looking into them just for UC to ignore the search warrant. I don’t have any opinion of who actually did this, but I do know that there are wayyy too many loose ends and missing reports to be certain of anything.

I think that my disbelief of the current theory is 1) it makes no sense and 2)the state is trying to block the original investigators, FBI agents and all of their work from being introduced at trial.

If the evidence against their current guy is so solid, why don’t you want the jury to know about the first 5 years of the case? Why was this OG investigation hidden from the defense? Why did Holeman scream at Murphy “how the F did they get this??” when he found out Murphy handed over his original investigation. It’s all so shakey and sketchy.

 

[TTF14]

Boy did I misunderstand that one! Thanks for the clarification.

I did too. It's 5 o'clock somewhere!

 

[TTF14]

I don’t think that it’s ever been stated that these people were dismissed. Ignored maybe? From what I’m understanding the EF search warrant was prepared and then ignored by UC and 1 of the 6 people have an alibi of a work email. The others got nothing including the guy who confessed.

It definitely seems like these guys should have been investigated further since LE already spent years looking into them just for UC to ignore the search warrant. I don’t have any opinion of who actually did this, but I do know that there are wayyy too many loose ends and missing reports to be certain of anything.

I think that my disbelief of the current theory is 1) it makes no sense and 2)the state is trying to block the original investigators, FBI agents and all of their work from being introduced at trial.

If the evidence against their current guy is so solid, why don’t you want the jury to know about the first 5 years of the case? Why was this OG investigation hidden from the defense? Why did Holeman scream at Murphy “how the F did they get this??” when he found out Murphy handed over his original investigation. It’s all so shakey and sketchy.

Well said. Nobody has said these guys were cleared. Nobody has been cleared, per Doug Carter.

Do I think they did it? I have no idea, but it's compelling reasonable doubt, like it or not.

IMO MOO

 

[photographer4]

Being aligned with the Prosecution really does take faith.

It might seem that all of those that believe RA is the right person to stand trial are blindly accepting all the P says as truth. That really isn't the case.

Many on this forum have been critical of LE over the years.

But, regardless, here we are 7 and a half years later, and each of us now have basically made a choice on whether or not RA is the man who approached the girls and led them to their deaths


LE has made mistakes. This case should not have taken this long to be where it is.

I hope that we can all agree that there was no rush to judgement.

To approve of the DT and their accusations requires people to believe that every person that worked tirelessly for years are in reality framing a small town pharmacy technician. That just doesn't make sense. That would include investigators, attorneys, judges, witnesses , the families, medical personnel and even the coroner.( Among others)

The Prosecutor has respected the gag order. So, for those that support the P and LE are going with the facts set forward and are willing to wait for trial.
The
Prosecution have been accused of withholding evidence and hiding exculpatory evidence.

In reality, it has been shown that the DT has had access to discovery and ' missed " it somehow while crying foul play. The missing exculpatory evidence doesn't or hasn't yet been proven to be exculpatory. We know that the DT blames Heathens that were looked at, investigated and ultimately dismissed.



The DT has been willing to share information about the crime that should have been left for trial. They are quite theatrical and raised conspiracy theories that have potentially tainted the jury pool.

Blaming people and publicly naming them feels like a dirty trick. It has made them ( the DT) appear devious and shameless.

We all know that legally RA is innocent until proven guilty, but none of us will be on the jury, so our opinions are allowed.

This case seemed like it could have gone cold. Thank goodness LE kept working. They never gave up.

It seems inconceivable that all of that work would end up framing an innocent man.


AJMO

This case was cold imo. For years. How they arrived at RA is still about as clear as mud to me. I don’t entirely buy their explanation that they went back to the beginning. I imagine they did this a few times over the years (moo) so what was diff this time?

If RA is the villain then their police work was not just bad, it was sloppy! I hope they make big changes to how they do things regardless the outcome in this matter.

I’d still like to know what evidence police have that lead Ives to say he thought they should have been able to solve it within days using old school investigation (paraphrased). No link because we have all seen the link and discussed ad nauseum throughout. How did it take this long if it should have been done within days??

Mooooooo

 

[photographer4]

I'd like to know if the witness thought it was odd the way the car was parked (backed in) when they first saw it, or if they were prompted to say yes or no with a question like, "do you mean it was parked in such a way to hide the license plate?"

If backing into parking spots is evidence of a crime, my father escaped prosecution his entire life (and tried to teach me to do the same).

IMO MOO

Those possible pesky leading questions!! I too wanna know precisely what the witnesses were asked. By whom. When. And what their exact answers were. I want to believe no twists of words happened, no leading questions made etc but here we are.

 

[photographer4]

I wouldn't say "us" because not all of us are glaring at them at all. I think they are brave to come forward with what they saw. I also don't fault them for not having an exact detailed description because it's not like someone said beforehand to memorize what the creepy guy they encounter is wearing. They passed him, he stood out to them as creepy. He didn't speak and as a woman I know exactly how that feels to pass someone that gives off bad vibes then trying to make sure by saying hello and to get nothing back makes it even more scary to me. So they didn't memorize his clothing, they still had valuable info to share. BG even says he passed them so they just confirm his timeline.. he's walking along from that end of the trail to the other.

RA says he passed them. I want to see the state prove he is BG and that BG = killer. Moo. Aside this, I agree with your post!

 

[Salah11]

It’s interesting the witness thought he had parked to conceal his number plate.

It’s another sign that he had planned this. It goes along with the teenage girls saying he was going along at pace.

I still think he knew Libby was going to be there that day and he hadn’t planned on Libby bringing along Abby.

IMO

 

[justtrish]

Being aligned with the Prosecution really does take faith.

It might seem that all of those that believe RA is the right person to stand trial are blindly accepting all the P says as truth. That really isn't the case.

Many on this forum have been critical of LE over the years.

But, regardless, here we are 7 and a half years later, and each of us now have basically made a choice on whether or not RA is the man who approached the girls and led them to their deaths


LE has made mistakes. This case should not have taken this long to be where it is.

I hope that we can all agree that there was no rush to judgement.

To approve of the DT and their accusations requires people to believe that every person that worked tirelessly for years are in reality framing a small town pharmacy technician. That just doesn't make sense. That would include investigators, attorneys, judges, witnesses , the families, medical personnel and even the coroner.( Among others)

The Prosecutor has respected the gag order. So, for those that support the P and LE are going with the facts set forward and are willing to wait for trial.
The
Prosecution have been accused of withholding evidence and hiding exculpatory evidence.

In reality, it has been shown that the DT has had access to discovery and ' missed " it somehow while crying foul play. The missing exculpatory evidence doesn't or hasn't yet been proven to be exculpatory. We know that the DT blames Heathens that were looked at, investigated and ultimately dismissed.



The DT has been willing to share information about the crime that should have been left for trial. They are quite theatrical and raised conspiracy theories that have potentially tainted the jury pool.

Blaming people and publicly naming them feels like a dirty trick. It has made them ( the DT) appear devious and shameless.

We all know that legally RA is innocent until proven guilty, but none of us will be on the jury, so our opinions are allowed.

This case seemed like it could have gone cold. Thank goodness LE kept working. They never gave up.

It seems inconceivable that all of that work would end up framing an innocent man.


AJMO

Perfectly said!

AND the defense doesn't even have to believe their client is innocent to represent him. That is a fact. They can know he's guilty and still represent the client because that is their job.

 

[photographer4]

The family originally said they knew it was 1:38 or 1:39 based on phone records. The PCA says 1:49 based on HH camera. I haven't seen 1:13 anywhere.

JMO

I think I asked this threads back ago - diff media says diff timelines. I’d have to go back and find the post but it was really interesting to see! It happens in a lotta cases imo. The media gets it jumbled and it never ends up super clear imo.

 

[TTF14]

Third and Fourth Franks denied:

 

[tlcya]

Has anyone come across an article or interview with either direct quotes from LE regarding this matter or audio/video where we can hear them say this for ourselves?

Sgt. Holeman tells us investigators recovered more audio from Libby’s phone, which was found with the girls at the crime scene.

“It does not appear to be anything more than some discussion between the girls. We have only released a portion of it. There are some others we think could help us but again protecting the integrity of the investigation is key so we cannot release everything because there are certain people that know the details and if we release it all then we get into false confessions,” said Sgt. Holeman.
ISP: More audio recovered from slain Delphi teen's phone

We know there is more audio, we do not know what it included aside from the typical girl stuff, but we know it included something LE thought would be helpful. MOO the parents weren't supposed to tell press and the public about the additional audio or that it was about BG/RA