Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #192

[Salah11]

I'll stick with what Doug Carter said, right after RA was arrested. "We haven't cleared anybody."

You don’t believe things have moved on since October 2022?

That would be quite poor work if lines of enquiries have not progressed since then. IMO

 

[ClearAhead]

I just can’t hang my hat on RA’s guilt with so few details available, and now realizing the ones we think we have - they’ve been reported over the years with a clear lack of accuracy. All those articles I posted cannot be right - not when they start around 1pm and go as late as 1:49pm for a drop off time. But again, the ISP website says 1:00pm. That is a huge deal imo and if I were the D team, I’d be hammering that point home to the jury - repeatedly!!

Make the timeline make sense!! Don’t tell me (LE, media, not you in particular of course!) that its done for investigative purposes, don’t try to feed me a line about how they were holding details close to the vest because right now, it genuinely looks like the LE have twisted the timeline to fit RA as a suspect rather than the details *revealing* RA for lack of a better way to word this!

I don’t think anyone expects you to hang your hat on RA’s guilt, your opinion belongs to only you. But I recall you mentioned this is the first case you’d followed from the beginning - correct me if I’m wrong - but once the trial begins I’d be certain things will fall into place including the timeline will be clarified and the process will make more sense. Considering the gag order and LE has held what they knew close to their chest since day #1, much of what you’d like to know just isn’t public information yet.

Following criminal cases requires great patience. Unlike movie or books, unfortunately we can’t flip to see the ending when we’re only half way through.

JMO

 

[TTF14]

You don’t believe things have moved on since October 2022?

That would be quite poor work if lines of enquiries have not progressed since then. IMO

Read today's motion from the Defense about the State's Motion in Limine when it becomes available on an approved source.

 

[ClearAhead]

You don’t believe things have moved on since October 2022?

That would be quite poor work if lines of enquiries have not progressed since then. IMO

Especially considering there wouldn’t have been time to completely process items ceased during the search (the one D valiantly tried to have stricken not once but four times!)

 

[ClearAhead]

I'll stick with what Doug Carter said, right after RA was arrested. "We haven't cleared anybody."

And I don’t have a link but it goes that according to LE nobody is cleared until an accused is convicted and only then is a crime considered solved.

It’s the jury’s decision if the accused is responsible for committing the crime, not LE.

 

[grannygates]

Easily found a solid source reminder of DNA science "supporting the prosecution of this Delphi case": so it is false to post that there is none:

Family: Police have DNA in Delphi murders

The family member of a murdered Delphi teenager indicated that police may have DNA evidence related to the case.

www.kokomotribune.com

That’s from pre-RA arrest so a whole different investigation. There could be DNA or science-based testing somewhere in the prior investigation but we have yet to see the state mention either in this specific case against RA. (Outside of the depositions of the investigators saying there is no DNA, fingerprints, digital or cell data linking RA to the crime scene or the girls.)

 

[ClearAhead]

Okay, nothing is ever over. What’s with D’s inability to move on. Looping……

​

Judge refuses to throw out key evidence in Delphi Murders case

Lawyers for Richard Allen had been requesting hearings to possibly throw out key evidence. Special judge Frances Gull denied their motions.

www.wthr.com

​

BBM
FORT WAYNE, Ind. — Special judge Frances Gull is refusing to throw out key evidence in the Delphi Murders case.

Richard Allen is charged with murdering Libby German and Abby Williams. His attorneys had been requesting a Franks Hearing, to dismiss some of the evidence prosecutors used to arrest and charge Allen with multiple counts of murder.
<>

The defense filed a response on Aug. 13, arguing the restrictions would violate Allen's Sixth Amendment Rights.

They also brought up police statements delivered when the prosecution wanted to keep the probable cause for Allen's arrest sealed. Those police statements mentioned that the investigation was "on going."

Allen's attorneys say that means the State has admitted someone else could have been responsible for the murders. “

 

[TTF14]

Okay, nothing is ever over. What’s with D’s inability to move on. Looping……

​

We should all hope if we ever find ourselves in a position of needing defense attorneys they don't just "move on." They are fighting for their client.

IMO MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Especially considering there wouldn’t have been time to completely process items ceased during the search (the one D valiantly tried to have stricken not once but four times!)

If they had gotten the gun and bullets tossed out, that would have eliminated a large part of this case. It's too bad the judge chose not to hold a hearing on the FM.

 

[flashy09]

This Gray Hughes no frills animation is so good IMO. No talking and quick.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I don’t think that it’s ever been stated that these people were dismissed. Ignored maybe? From what I’m understanding the EF search warrant was prepared and then ignored by UC and 1 of the 6 people have an alibi of a work email. The others got nothing including the guy who confessed.

RSMB/BBM

I am behind on the thread but if it hasn’t been asked already~ can you please link the source that BH’s work alibi was only verified through email.
Thanks

 

[SouthEnd]

Since early on, I have been wondering how much RA knows/understands re: the legal options he has available.

I am not doubting his mental capabilities to stand trial. However, there were warning bells ringing for me since he penned this letter from jail asking for a public attorney - Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen pens jailhouse letter saying wife is in hiding

A few observations:
a) He had no idea how expensive a defence attorney would be. A lot of the defendants we encounter in True Crime are well-versed in the legal system, either because they are career criminals, or because they are true crime enthusiasts (BK Idaho) or they are mega millionaires who have the best teams advising them. RA is a unique case - he seems to have never had a brush with the law and his job/everyday life didn't prepare him for the bureaucratic nature of the system. I just want to highlight how intimidating this can be - I had to deal with civil legislation in two different countries and even though I have dealt with legal matters at my work, it still felt extremely overwhelming.

Speaking of overwhelming...

b) He comes across desperate. Guilty or innocent, he seems in over his head, which is entirely understandable. But that level of desperation and lack of understanding of the system, plus a history of depression, can lead to a person refusing to engage/understand the process if they think it is hopeless anyways.

c) He keeps bringing up his wife. Yes, he seems worried about himself, but reading the letter he seems absolutely torn over his wife. Not daughter/mother, but mostly his wife. We know that Dr Wala testified about RA's bond with his wife, it is interesting (and honestly, heart-breaking) to see he is willing to beg not for himself, but for her.

Why am I bringing this up?

MOO: I believe that RA has less understanding of the legal system than most people who engage in conversation in this forum, and even for us, the whole process would be overwhelming. That, coupled with what the DT said in the FM about how RA refused to engage at times and help his own defence, makes me wonder if RA is fully informed on what is happening. Does he understand his options? Does he realise he can plea? Does he fully understand what will come out during trial?

I am not accusing his DT of not informing him, I am simply wondering if he is making sensible decisions atm vs reacting out of desperation and taking the path of least resistance, even though it will cause much more heartache later on.

All MOO

 

[Spartygirl]

or thought the way it was parked was odd because it was backed into a spot far away from other vehicles and entrances to the old CPS (or Farm Bureau as RA described it). Even before I knew girls were missing/murdered, if I saw something like that in a parking lot I had never seen that in before, I might take notice and wonder if a drug deal was going down or a lunch time affair, etc.

Do we know, was that building in use and the lot used as well when the girls were killed or was it a just a usually empty lot near an empty building? If empty, I would for sure notice because I would think thief/burglar/up to no good.

The building was NOT in use and was considered "abandoned "

If his car was the only one there, it would stick out for sure as it was an Empty parking lot.

This is where we parked and walked to the Freedom Bridge

 

[StarryStarryNight]

If they had gotten the gun and bullets tossed out, that would have eliminated a large part of this case. It's too bad the judge chose not to hold a hearing on the FM.

No, it’s not.

 

[SouthEnd]

This Gray Hughes no frills animation is so good IMO. No talking and quick.

Thank you so much for sharing - this was very helpful. I hope the state will be able to present a similar video, with the addition of Libby's phone extractions - when did it stop moving. Hopefully they will have a few more data points by trial, but this is a very compelling visual story, IMO.

(It was so difficult to watch. Can't even begin to imagine how long the minutes felt for the girls. RIP Abby and Libby.)

 

[Willow Knight]

Has anyone come across an article or interview with either direct quotes from LE regarding this matter or audio/video where we can hear them say this for ourselves?

Anna W, mother of Abby, talks about LE allowing her and family members to listen to the whole video. She doesn't get into details. She does confirm she listened to the video. Towards the beginning of the interview.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

They saw RA as he also saw them.

How is that in dispute?

Seriously Salah? How do any of us know who seen whom at this point? 2+2=4

I could be right and you could be wrong, OR
You could be right and I could be wrong.

This is not a contest to me, and ALL opinions should matter... respect mine, and I will respect yours. We don't have to agree but lets at least stop picking apart one anothers thoughts/ thanks

 

[TTF14]

Anna W, mother of Abby, talks about LE allowing her and family members to listen to the whole video. She doesn't get into details. She does confirm she listened to the video. Towards the beginning of the interview.

Appreciate it! I was asking for quotes from LE though. (But thank you)

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Thank you so much for sharing - this was very helpful. I hope the state will be able to present a similar video, with the addition of Libby's phone extractions - when did it stop moving. Hopefully they will have a few more data points by trial, but this is a very compelling visual story, IMO.

(It was so difficult to watch. Can't even begin to imagine how long the minutes felt for the girls. RIP Abby and Libby.)

Yes this is the one I was referring to earlier. Very helpful for anyone struggling to “see” how the timeline works.
Every time I watch this I wonder if RA hadn’t seen part of the group of girls (witnesses) on the trails as he drove past on CR300N. I often wonder if he had considered targeting them but took too long gathering his kill kit and by the time he caught up to them they were in public view of Hoosier Highway.
I wonder if they weren’t facing east when he drove past them and he thought they were heading to MHB or perhaps he didn’t see all 4 or the youngest.
I do feel he drove the long way to the trails so he could see how populated it was- If there were any targets.
It could explain his haste and glaring. It’s a chilling thought.

I wish his plans for evil that day had been thwarted.
All my opinion