Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #192

[Salah11]

If Kelsi was on the phone to her boyfriend then they can check her call log, so maybe originally she gave the wrong time, but then they could check the records to firm up the time.

She was dealing with her sister being murdered, and I am positive it was all quite overwhelming, so maybe her timing was off. When she dropped them off she couldn’t have imagined the horror that was about to unfold.

MOO

 

[photographer4]

And if the defense is so battering to a witness on the stand that the witness does break down and gets emotional but sticks to their truth, you don't think the jurors could then view that negatively? That would be an ok thing in the defense's scheme of things? To be thought of as a bully and possibly have that disgust transferred to their client? They can and should thoroughly cross examine without it coming off as an attack. AJMO

I don’t actually care one bit how the D comes off if they’re questioning a witness. I feel badly for whomever is on the stand sure. I hope they do it as nicely as they can. I hope they’ll do their best not to make themselves look awful but the jurors shouldn’t be deciding a case on their feelings about the lawyers, should they?

 

[photographer4]

One would think, even as a Non-attorney, a Lay-person, that it would be time better spent.

But this D team is not doing that.

I wonder if RA even knows that his defense team are a bunch of circus clowns just throwing crap out there to see what sticks ???

I get why some people think this but I kinda like their tenacity! I like that they have continued to mount a vigorous defense and that they’ve taken issue with JG refusing to have a franks hearing. Moo.

 

[mrjitty]

Maybe they should also have asked the boyfriend if he could confirm the girls were in the car with her at that time? If so, how was he certain?

Where are you going with this exactly?

 

[sunshineray]

The minors saw a male and allegedly LG took the photo, was it RA as you say? Hopefully one day we will know the answer. IMO

The photo was by a bench on the trail, (probably a group photo?) not a photo of RA. The important thing about that photo was the time stamp, not the subject matter. The witness said they passed RA right after the photo was taken, the group on their way out of the trails, he on his way in, going towards the bridge. That's my understanding of that photo

 

[sunshineray]

I don’t actually care one bit how the D comes off if they’re questioning a witness. I feel badly for whomever is on the stand sure. I hope they do it as nicely as they can. I hope they’ll do their best not to make themselves look awful but the jurors shouldn’t be deciding a case on their feelings about the lawyers, should they?

My point was not the caring about the witness on the stand but caring about how the jury might negatively view the attorney and how that could then attach itself to the defendant. Jurors are not bots, they're humans with sensibilities. Beating up on witnesses causing tears, not necessarily a good or effective look in front of a jury. AJMO and we can agree to disagree

 

[grannygates]

View attachment 524461

Has this been posted in here yet?

Why do you think the first portion of the hearing is closed to the public and will this be accessible at all afterwards? Eg Transcripts.

I was wondering about that too. One thought was perhaps something surrounding the confessions, maybe reviewing actual audio/video or discussing the content of the statement more in-depth ?

The state told the defense in their response that the defense should itemize every statement that they wanted suppressed and at the hearing the state generalized the statements. There wasn’t a final number or any details. So I wonder if they do a closed door hearing if they could actually talk about them more specifically?

 

[MiniMoo]

So long as it fits and isn’t *forced to fit*. The ISP website says around 1pm. That’s not been changed so I’m not sure why they’re stating it now as something totally different?! That’s one massive discrepancy imo. If they were dropped off around 1pm then the whole timeline the state wants people to believe is off.

Look what I did with 1:13 pm so it definitely would change with 1:00 pm and again with 1: 30 pm and 1: 49 pm.

Fit not forced to fit - agreed.

 

[MiniMoo]

I was wondering about that too. One thought was perhaps something surrounding the confessions, maybe reviewing actual audio/video or discussing the content of the statement more in-depth ?

The state told the defense in their response that the defense should itemize every statement that they wanted suppressed and at the hearing the state generalized the statements. There wasn’t a final number or any details. So I wonder if they do a closed door hearing if they could actually talk about them more specifically?

Possibly.

I wonder if plea bargaining or a plea deal may come in or not at this point.

I hope it whatever is going on behind closed doors is made available whatever it is.

 

[Willow Knight]

This Gray Hughes no frills animation is so good IMO. No talking and quick.

This is the best I've seen to date. Stunning. I've been visualizing how the state will present their theory, and this is exactly how I thought they would. It gave me sadness watching it, very sad.

 

[Willow Knight]

Simple.... those minors didn't know the man they seen was RA, nor did RA know the juveniles. <modsnip>

One would think the witnesses would know what Richard Allen looks like now. We should see in trial, if it ever gets to trial, we should see if the girls can identify Richard Allen as the person they passed. The girls may not have known his name at that time.

 

[mrjitty]

The whole “but they said the case is ongoing!” thing will never fly. A case isn’t closed until there is a conviction (or there is extremely solid evidence a deceased individual did it), and RA hasn’t been convicted yet. It’s also entirely possible someone else helped RA in some way, which would still be inculpatory for RA and still in line with his felony murder charges. I don’t expect this last-ditch motion to succeed.

JMO

Why were these pleadings not included in the original motions/filings I wonder?

There was literally a witness at the hearing who went in to how LE investigated any potential link between RA and KAK after RA was arrested. It seems likely that is what Nick was referring to?

The test remains the same - what evidence links KAK to the murders. We have his cat fishing and his seemingly false admissions. So that may well be enough to get him in - but is not relevant to the others?

MOO

 

[katydid23]

I personally never backed in to hide my plates.
Making a quick exit was my priority.

Maybe that was his priority too, good point. I mean, why would a guy going on a leisurely afternoon hike have to make a 'quick exit'? For some reason, maybe RA thought he might have to?

 

[FromGermany1]

How long a drive do you think it was for him to the trails? His house was I think close enough that he probably coulda walked there had been so inclined. I don’t have the map handy but if you google his address to the trail, it’s a few mins.

I'm wondering now, why he used his car at all and had to onerous park it with it's backside to the abandoned building, conceiling the license plates. Why didn't he walk? Though he may have arrived at that building NOT from his home, but from CVS, if he worked until noon. Do we know, if he worked his job throughout the morning?

 

[katydid23]

I don’t think that it’s ever been stated that these people were dismissed. Ignored maybe? From what I’m understanding the EF search warrant was prepared

The search warrant was 'prepared?' Who prepared it? I don't think a police officer in a neighbouring town can get a search warrant for a Delphi murder case?

Where does it say there was a search warrant that was prepared and ignored?

All I have seen was one police officer suggested that EF should have his place searched. Apparently the task force did not think it was necessary.

and then ignored by UC and 1 of the 6 people have an alibi of a work email. The others got nothing including the guy who confessed.

It definitely seems like these guys should have been investigated further since LE already spent years looking into them just for UC to ignore the search warrant. I don’t have any opinion of who actually did this, but I do know that there are wayyy too many loose ends and missing reports to be certain of anything.

Why do you think the detectives would stop investigating these guys if they seemed to be such perfect suspects?

I think that my disbelief of the current theory is 1) it makes no sense

What makes no sense about this current theory?

and 2)the state is trying to block the original investigators, FBI agents and all of their work from being introduced at trial.

Even with all of the original work they did, none of them could place any of the suspects in Delphi at the time.

If the evidence against their current guy is so solid, why don’t you want the jury to know about the first 5 years of the case?

Because it does not fit the legal requirement for admission as evidence because it is not relevant, misleading and confusing to the jurors.

Why was this OG investigation hidden from the defense? Why did Holeman scream at Murphy “how the F did they get this??”

Because Holeman probably thought Murphy probably shouldn't have given them the report because technically it is not exculpatory if the suspects had no solid connection to the crime.

when he found out Murphy handed over his original investigation. It’s all so shakey and sketchy.

It could be looked at that way, but IF in fact they know that RA is guilty, and they have solid evidence of that, then it wouldn't be that sketchy or shaky. In that case it would be understandable. IMO

 

[mrjitty]

The search warrant was 'prepared?' Who prepared it? I don't think a police officer in a neighbouring town can get a search warrant for a Delphi murder case?

Where does it say there was a search warrant that was prepared and ignored?

I suspect they lacked PC for it.

It's quite possible someone prepared one, but then the boss or prosecutor said it will never get through. IMO its not unusual for stuff like that not to get to a judge - similar to how a prosecutor can choose not to file charges because they decide the case doesn't pass muster

IMO

 

[katydid23]

So there are no direct quotes from LE saying this.

Isn't this a direct quote from LE?


“It does not appear to be anything more than some discussion between the girls. We have only released a portion of it. There are some others we think could help us but again protecting the integrity of the investigation is key so we cannot release everything because there are certain people that know the details and if we release it all then we get into false confessions,” said Sgt. Holeman.


ISP: More audio recovered from slain Delphi teen's phone

 

[katydid23]

After reviewing all the different times the kids are said to have arrived at the trails (which I made a post about and linked several articles in support of upthread…)…. I wonder who ANY of the witnesses might have seen that day! The ISP have the kids being dropped off at 1pm per their own website!!??

That website means nothing in terms of evidence submitted in court for a jury trial. That website is not set up and run by the DA or the homicide investigators. It is probably run by interns.

You said:
But the ISP website still says the girls were dropped at around 1pm.

That says 'AROUND' 1 pm. It's not wrong. It's just not specific and timed to the minute because it is a website. It is not going to be used at trial as a timeline. I wouldn't necessarily expect it to say they were dropped off @ 1:46pm CST.

I think this website info is being blown out of proportion. It is not trial evidence and is not meant to be,IMO

 

[katydid23]

I am saying, anything is possible. We don’t know who was there that day. The police don’t either, unless each person who had been there that day came forward and gave a statement, they could easily have missed people. Like us, they don’t know what they don’t know. Know what I mean?

Yes, the police do know who was there that day. There was a large task force which included lots of agencies and hundreds of interviews and investigative methods and cctv's and geo-fencing, and CAST reports, etc.

So they do know who was there and what times people arrived and departed and how they did so. I am pretty sure that everyone who was there on the bridge have given a statement. And if someone didn't, they'd likely have been seen by others so LE knows about them. IMO

 

[Salah11]

Yes, the police do know who was there that day. There was a large task force which included lots of agencies and hundreds of interviews and investigative methods and cctv's and geo-fencing, and CAST reports, etc.

So they do know who was there and what times people arrived and departed and how they did so. I am pretty sure that everyone who was there on the bridge have given a statement. And if someone didn't, they'd likely have been seen by others so LE knows about them. IMO

Yes in a small community anybody who was out on those trails that day would of come forward or been found when they didn’t come forward.

RA has no alibi for the times of the murders!!