Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #192

[Salah11]

One thing that comes up for me is let's say RA is BG. Let's just assume for a moment that he is the killer. It is just so far beyond anything I can understand that

1. he did this to 2 innocent young girls in the middle of the day
2. that he continued to live there and work in a store where the family members of the victims frequented

If he is the guy, then how far beyond disturbing it is that he could have a front row seat to the pain he caused for Abby and Libby's families AND the town. Was he getting some satisfaction out of being able to live there and blend in and just watch the town as they talked about the girls, wondered who did it, and all the while he was just right there. I have wondered if this is why he never offended again. He didn't need to. He could relive his crime any time he wanted by going to the trail and walking or just seeing people talking about who did it, standing right beside the wanted posters, seeing Libby and Abby's family.. ugh it really just adds a level of depravity to it that is hard to stomach. It's hard to see how there is any remorse on his part at all when he chose to remain there. I'd think if someone was sorry or felt bad, they'd want to get away from the place they committed such a horrific crime.

Yes i definitely think he got his jollies from living in the community and being in plain sight. Like when he printed off the funeral photos for Libby’s families.

He must of absolutely of loved playing the hero by coming across as a Good Samaritan by giving them the photos for free.

ETA - the link for the family saying he printed off the photos.

ETA - sorry I just realized Jollies may be British terminology. It just means he got Excitement/Pleasure from it.

Delphi murder suspect printed off photos for Abby and Libby’s funeral, family says

DELPHI, Ind. — The grandmother of Libby German said the man arrested and accused of killing her granddaughter also was the man who printed off pictures for Libby’s funeral. Richard Allen, 50,…

fox59.com

IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes if RA had a legitimate, solid alibi we wouldn't be talking about him in this case. Period

Right, he wouldn't have been arrested like the many POI before him. Unless you believe it was all a conspiracy by LE, ISP and the FBI to frame a totally innocent in no way related to the crime CVS worker.

This is what the Defense's first Frank Memo helped create and I think their unbelievable assertions and the way they pushed their narrative out around the gag order was professional misconduct along with leaked CS photos many other things they've done in this case.

Are Rozzi and Baldwin going to have to face some type of disciplinary action after the trial or is it all said and done?

MOO

 

[m00c0w]

Yes! I'd like to know if the cell phone he showed to DD showed up on the trail that day. It would have been seen leaving well before Abby and Libby were taken off the bridge if so. I mean he handed it over and DD wrote the numbers down. Was that phone on the trail at all that day? If not, why not? Why would he provide a phone that wasn't there if he admitted he had it and was watching stocks on it? What phone did he have there that day? Either the phone he showed DD was there or it wasn't. If it was, then that should be easy to then show his movements and when the phone left the area of the trail. I think if there was any evidence that this phone he said he had that day was there and left at 1:30, then the defense would have brought that up well before the trail. Either way that is a problem for RA.

BBM

We basically know it didn’t, in my opinion, because that would have been included in Franks 1-4, and we’d have seen 6-9 by now. At least if it did, it’s not the slightest bit exculpatory.

JMO.

 

[FromGermany1]

Yes i definitely think he got his jollies from living in the community and being in plain sight. Like when he printed off the funeral photos for Libby’s families.

He must of absolutely of loved playing the hero by coming across as a Good Samaritan by giving them the photos for free.

ETA - the link for the family saying he printed off the photos.

ETA - sorry I just realized Jollies may be British terminology. It just means he got Excitement/Pleasure from it.

Delphi murder suspect printed off photos for Abby and Libby’s funeral, family says

DELPHI, Ind. — The grandmother of Libby German said the man arrested and accused of killing her granddaughter also was the man who printed off pictures for Libby’s funeral. Richard Allen, 50,…

fox59.com

IMO

KA probably had cake and coffee after Libby's funeral, which she attended afaik. So the couple had, what they needed for their spiritual well-being. MOO

 

[justtrish]

BBM

We basically know it didn’t, in my opinion, because that would have been included in Franks 1-4, and we’d have seen 6-9 by now. At least if it did, it’s not the slightest bit exculpatory.

JMO.

Then this is really difficult for me to find an innocent reason for then. He willingly comes forward to say he was there and what he was doing.. then shows DD the phone he had (assuming LE wanted this info to pinpoint those on the trail and where they were and when so they could put together a timeline from it and confirm they were there when BG was there, etc) Well then why wouldn't his phone he admits to having on the trail be there then?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Then this is really difficult for me to find an innocent reason for then. He willingly comes forward to say he was there and what he was doing.. then shows DD the phone he had (assuming LE wanted this info to pinpoint those on the trail and where they were and when so they could put together a timeline from it and confirm they were there when BG was there, etc) Well then why wouldn't his phone he admits to having on the trail be there then?

Not to mention the fact that the Defense has talked about ALL the other things about good ole' Rick, except an alibi.

If they had a provable, solid alibi showing he was anywhere else, the D would have been screaming it from day one. They don't or they wouldn't have left him in IDOC's custody or in jail period all this time.

IMO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

PCA Clarification

Tip Narrative:
Inaccuracies, incorrect or what?

2017:

a: Richard Allen Whiteman
b: Old Farm Bureau Building (car parked)

This is when it would have been under Whiteman (street name I believe) and not Allen - by mistake.

No clothes mentioned nor when this narrative took place, but likely it was within days of the murders.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

The carpark witnesses refer to seeing an oddly parked vehicle or vehicle at the CPS building not Old Farm Bureau Building.

Either a Suv, Smart car or a purple PT cruiser. I think someone also stated a small dark car after re-reading it tonight.

Is it possible that:
c: 1:30 pm- 3:30 pm

Is incorrect or mistakenly put in like Whiteman and Old Farm Bureau Building.

Not unless the OFB building is the CPS.

On October 13th, 2022:

Richard Allen states in his interview what he was wearing that day and his activities, also, that he parked on the side of an old building.

The time he gives is 1:30 pm.

Seems to me whoever gave that narrative tip in 2017 may have made some unintentional mistakes which may very well include 1:30 pm-3:30 pm.

What if RA was driving out at 1:27 pm when a vehicle that "looked similar" to his was caught on video?

Have these inaccuracies being cleared up is what I'd like to know.

RA’s car was seen traveling westbound on CR300n on the HH camera at 1:27pm which coincides with RA’s statement that he arrived at 1:30pm

The cps building is just west of the HH store. It is the only “old building” that I am aware of that is near the entrance of the trails at Freedom Bridge. RA stated in his tip narrative that he parked and entered the trails at the new Freedom Bridge. This is also were he was seen entering by the group of 4 girls walking west.
I think RA may have misspoke (intentionally?) when describing the building he parked at.
But in my opinion ( and the states) old building
/old farm bureau building =old cps building.
Either way he did not state he parked at the Mears entrance or the cemetery or any other location east of the HH camera so it would not be him leaving the trails at 1:27pm.
I also notice that defense only refers to RA’s statement that in later interviews he states that he was at the trails from 12-1:30pm. They do not offer any proof to support this statement. I am sure defense has had access to the discovery and the HH camera feed. If RA’s car was seen entering and leaving at a different time, we would have heard about it by now.
JMO
https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes i definitely think he got his jollies from living in the community and being in plain sight. Like when he printed off the funeral photos for Libby’s families.

He must of absolutely of loved playing the hero by coming across as a Good Samaritan by giving them the photos for free.

ETA - the link for the family saying he printed off the photos.

ETA - sorry I just realized Jollies may be British terminology. It just means he got Excitement/Pleasure from it.

Delphi murder suspect printed off photos for Abby and Libby’s funeral, family says

DELPHI, Ind. — The grandmother of Libby German said the man arrested and accused of killing her granddaughter also was the man who printed off pictures for Libby’s funeral. Richard Allen, 50,…

fox59.com

IMO

Also the photo of him posing at the bar table at the local pub right in front of the BG photo. Of course at the time that was taken he'd probably gained 20-30 lbs and gone completely gray. RA has an uncanny chameleon ability in looks .

I've seen pictures of him over the years and he looks different almost every time, even down to his eye color.

IMO

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This post lands at random.

Members absolutely need to cut the drama and dissension in this discussion and stop derailing the conversation with inflammatory or antagonistic posts about others (both here and elsewhere).

Discuss the case itself, not other members, not what side of the fence others are on, moderation or why we allow or don't allow blah blah, not who's ridiculing who, not what the scuttlebutt is on social media or anywhere else on the web unless it's MSM or other approved source, etc.

If you have nothing to contribute but bickering, then perhaps it's time to find another case to steer some energy toward. Maybe drop into the Cold Cases forum to find a case and let a family know you are thinking of them and their loved one.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Especially since the bullet was allegedly found 3 days after the crime scene was released and resecured.

And found by whom?

IMO MOO

Honestly, don’t you think if the bullet, a key piece of evidence against RA; was not found until 3 days after the processing and release of the crime scene it would have been challenged on this fact?

It would have been a glaringly obvious lie in the PCA which described it as being found in between the victim’s bodies.

Any defense team worth their salt would have been attacking it from multiple angles.

Only one sourced individual has floated this theory and she said it was her “understanding” which leaves wiggle room to walk it back if proven false.

I just don’t think this is a valid theory.

 

[photographer4]

I am still patiently waiting for people to point out how many other bullets were found at the crime scene under the bodies.
Because I believe it was just the one Bullet found and no other random ones, which again points to his guilt. I know some parts of America love guns, so the fact there was only one bullet found matching his gun speaks volumes. It was not a place where the local town people went to shoot their guns.


It surely can’t be a conspiracy, because then why did it take over 5 years to match this bullet to his gun?!

moo

I am interested in learning more about it such as when they found it. Who did. When? How? Chain of custody? What’s the science behind identifying which exact gun?

 

[photographer4]

Honestly, don’t you think if the bullet, a key piece of evidence against RA; was not found until 3 days after the processing and release of the crime scene it would have been challenged on this fact?

It would have been a glaringly obvious lie in the PCA which described it as being found in between the victim’s bodies.

Any defense team worth their salt would have been attacking it from multiple angles.

Only one sourced individual has floated this theory and she said it was her “understanding” which leaves wiggle room to walk it back if proven false.

I just don’t think this is a valid theory.

I think there has been a challenge presented in the Franks 1 (so help me I’m going to make it my signature!!) - I think they questioned the chain of custody and lack of photos, no?

Pls don’t make me post this link again for the love of all things holy!

 

[Salah11]

How long was the crime scene locked down for?

 

[ClearAhead]

I think there has been a challenge presented in the Franks 1 (so help me I’m going to make it my signature!!) - I think they questioned the chain of custody and lack of photos, no?

Pls don’t make me post this link again for the love of all things holy!

The FM is almost a year old now so it’s become an outdated source of information, not that it was ever totally accurate (according to the P). Several times since the P has directed the D to pieces of discovery they didn’t know they had recieved. No recent mention by the D about the bullet at all that I recall.

MOO

 

[photographer4]

The problem is, one side is obeying the gag order and, so, therefore, there are a lot of misconceptions because of the games by the defence. IMO

I see this a lot - people think the D breeched a “gag order”. Do you have a link to this gag order and links to show how it was breeched? I don’t understand this as it seems a non issue given nothing from JG over any breech of order. Pls help me to understand.

 

[photographer4]

The FM is almost a year old now so it’s become an outdated source of information, not that it was ever totally accurate (according to the P). Several times since the P has directed the D to pieces of discovery they didn’t know they had recieved. No recent mention by the D about the bullet at all that I recall.

MOO

Then wouldn’t the PCA for the SW also be outdated by now?

 

[Salah11]

I see this a lot - people think the D breeched a “gag order”. Do you have a link to this gag order and links to show how it was breeched? I don’t understand this as it seems a non issue given nothing from JG over any breech of order. Pls help me to understand.

This is one such instance according to the prosecution team. I am positive others will be able to weigh In with other examples.

Prosecutor accuses Delphi defense of contempt of court

Allen, 51, of Delphi, was arrested for the 2017 murders of 13-year-old Abigail “Abby” Williams and 14-year-old Liberty “Libby” German.

www.wishtv.com

 

[justtrish]

Honestly, don’t you think if the bullet, a key piece of evidence against RA; was not found until 3 days after the processing and release of the crime scene it would have been challenged on this fact?

It would have been a glaringly obvious lie in the PCA which described it as being found in between the victim’s bodies.

Any defense team worth their salt would have been attacking it from multiple angles.

Only one sourced individual has floated this theory and she said it was her “understanding” which leaves wiggle room to walk it back if proven false.

I just don’t think this is a valid theory.

I still think if it was found 3 days later, how else would it get there if not from BG and his gun? How would anyone in LE or otherwise have access to a gun that RA admitted he had since like 2001 (could be a year or two off, but it was a long long time prior to this crime he stated he owned this gun in question). Where would some random person get a bullet that had been cycled through his gun?

Certainly if it was someone in LE they wouldn't have waited till 5 1/2 years later to arrest this man because they would have known who RA was at that point in order to plant a bullet that had cycled in his gun.

If it's a random Odinist person that planted it later, then again did they break into RA's house and take a bullet that had cycled through his gun and plant it there? They would have had to know RA was on the trail and that same person would have had to use a gun when they actually did abduct the girls because we know they mentioned gun.. so someone had a gun and then decided to pick RA to go get a bullet from his gun to place it at the scene?

None of that seems in any way logical or likely. I don't know if the bullet was found day 1 or at any point in the days after, but for it to not be a bullet that dropped from the gun of the person that abducted the girls from the bridge is highly unlikely because it matches that of one that would have cycled through RAs gun AND RA puts himself on the trail and on the bridge that day.

 

[tlcya]

He was tortured by guards while being recorded??!!!

it's cool tho, there isn't audio so the defense can't use it

 

[ClearAhead]

I see this a lot - people think the D breeched a “gag order”. Do you have a link to this gag order and links to show how it was breeched? I don’t understand this as it seems a non issue given nothing from JG over any breech of order. Pls help me to understand.

The gag order doesn’t pertain to motions presented to the Court. Perhaps it’s better said that the D commonly ‘circumvents’ the gag order by including unnecessary and irrelevant information in their motions. For example, the FMs, it was only required to prove LE lied supported by facts. Outlining their theory about how Abby died or if she was hung had no bearing whatsoever as LE did not even refer to her manner of death in the PCA which the D alleged contained lies.

Another broad example is the several FMs have become the source for virtually anything being discussed about this case as if it’s a case reference manual.

JMO