Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #192

[StarryStarryNight]

Then this is really difficult for me to find an innocent reason for then. He willingly comes forward to say he was there and what he was doing.. then shows DD the phone he had (assuming LE wanted this info to pinpoint those on the trail and where they were and when so they could put together a timeline from it and confirm they were there when BG was there, etc) Well then why wouldn't his phone he admits to having on the trail be there then?

Similar to the the Schrödinger’s Cat experiment, this situation paints RA as a liar and as truthful at the same time resolved only by hearing testimony saying whether or not RA’s phone was at the trails that day.
Unlike Schrödinger’s cat, who is either dead or alive once the box is opened, RA is dead no matter the outcome.
If RA’s phone was at the trails that day, he has been truthful, yet by placing himself there, he must remain a suspect.
If RA’s phone does not show as being at the trails, he lied to LE about looking at his phone at the trails or did not have it on, which, at best, is sketchy behavior.
Schrodinger’s cat is either alive or dead but RA is dead every time the box is opened, no matter whether the phone shows him as being there or not, no matter whether he lied or not.
The reason is RA admitted to being on the bridge at the same time the girls were approaching it. He’s still there.
Schrodinger’s Phone…things are always as they are.

 

[photographer4]

How long was the crime scene locked down for?

A couple days post murders RL showed a reporter the area.

I believe it shows of date of Feb -17. Unsure if this is date video posted or made or both. So kids found 14th in daylight hours.

And then this report says the investigators went BaCK to the crime scene to look for more evidence - three weeks after the murders.

Seems to me they did release the scene and then go back later. Weird.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

While going back to review the franks memorandum in regard to the defenses narrative about the bullet evidence I found something else that we were discussing earlier.

Defense states Three times on page 118 that RA claimed during his interview with LE that he parked at the CPS parking lot on the day of the murders.
Edit to add: upon further review more than 3 times as RA told Liggett and Mullin during his taped interview on 10/13/22 that he parked at CPS.
So unless we think RA lied about the location we can now lay to rest that issue. IMO
FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host
Now back to find that pesky bullet information that apparently was a blip in this 136 page document.

 

[photographer4]

The gag order doesn’t pertain to motions presented to the Court. Perhaps it’s better said that the D commonly ‘circumvents’ the gag order by including unnecessary and irrelevant information in their motions. For example, the FMs, it was only required to prove LE lied supported by facts. Outlining their theory about how Abby died or if she was hung had no bearing whatsoever as LE did not even refer to her manner of death in the PCA which the D alleged contained lies.

Another broad example is the several FMs have become the source for virtually anything being discussed about this case as if it’s a case reference manual.

JMO

Possibly because it has the most amount of approved source info? IMO in this day and age these gag orders or publication bans are nonsense. Transparency should be the way to go. I dislike someone else censoring what the public can read, see, hear for themselves in so many cases - to what end? Clearly isn’t effective if they don’t apply to court submissions which then become public record. All moo of course.

 

[photographer4]

The gag order doesn’t pertain to motions presented to the Court. Perhaps it’s better said that the D commonly ‘circumvents’ the gag order by including unnecessary and irrelevant information in their motions. For example, the FMs, it was only required to prove LE lied supported by facts. Outlining their theory about how Abby died or if she was hung had no bearing whatsoever as LE did not even refer to her manner of death in the PCA which the D alleged contained lies.

Another broad example is the several FMs have become the source for virtually anything being discussed about this case as if it’s a case reference manual.

JMO

Also if it does not apply to motions to the court then there was no breech so we need to put this issue to bed as well imo.

 

[sunshineray]

I have listened to the episode and do not recall this being discussed. I do not recall her deposition being discussed here or anywhere else, for that matter. I have provided the search warrant and affidavit that says nothing about books regarding Nordic beliefs. This is a pretty large claim that is unsubstantiated (just like several others, really). Do you have a time in the episode I could reference?

I don't recall a witness's deposition being mention in any of the series. There was also a 4th podcast in that series about the hearings. MO

 

[sunshineray]

Do you suppose the judge would have set a FM hearing for the Lebrato/Scremin team? This bit from her 11/14/23 order (from the CCS) seems to indicate that she would. They apparently saw some problems, too.


Barbara MacDonald talking about the Lebrato interview after he and Scremin were taken off the case.

EXCLUSIVE: Allen's Ex-Attorney Says Prison Guard Had Odinism Face Tattoo

Bill Lebrato said a guard in charge of watching Allen was ordered to remove Odinism patches on his uniform, then later got a face tattoo resembling Odin's Spear.

www.courttv.com

Guess it would depend if that D team made a connection with real evidence. We'll never know, RA wanted his lawyers back

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I think there has been a challenge presented in the Franks 1 (so help me I’m going to make it my signature!!) - I think they questioned the chain of custody and lack of photos, no?

Pls don’t make me post this link again for the love of all things holy!

Page 31 Defense claims to have only received 3 photos of the bullet in the ground between Abby and Libby.
They are challenging that they do not have any photographic evidence of the bullet after it left the ground.
They do not challenge when it was found or where.
Defense also states that perhaps additional photos exist of the bullet after it was retrieved from between the two girls but they may have not located it in the voluminous discovery.
I don’t believe it has been ever mentioned again in any of the following Franks so my opinion is that defense found the additional photo/video evidence in the discovery sometime after the Franks was filed.
FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

 

[ClearAhead]

Possibly because it has the most amount of approved source info? IMO in this day and age these gag orders or publication bans are nonsense. Transparency should be the way to go. I dislike someone else censoring what the public can read, see, hear for themselves in so many cases - to what end? Clearly isn’t effective if they don’t apply to court submissions which then become public record. All moo of course.

The irony is are led to believe we know everything because the D has told us so. But like a good poker player the P is waiting until the trial to show their hand and I predict there will be big time shockers!

 

[photographer4]

The irony is are led to believe we know everything because the D has told us so. But like a good poker player the P is waiting until the trial to show their hand and I predict there will be big time shockers!

I look forward to jaw dropping slam dunk shockers from either side. I don’t think either side has outright lied but I do think both sides have possibly done some some twisting of words or omissions etc…

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Edit: Oops. Accidentally hit post

 

[MiniMoo]

IPhone 6

From what I understand Libby had issues with her phone as in it was glitchy.

Her grandmother had no plans to get her a new one so Libby did a full reset over the weekend of February 4th-February 5th, 2017.

All data on it was deleted in full.

Maybe there is a possibility the full reset didn't resolve what was going on with her phone as to why it turned on like it did at 4:33 am.

JMT

 

[FrostedGlass]

Regarding the Chain of Custody issue:

Nick talks about his witnesses and states about a half dozen to a dozen are Chain of Custody type witnesses.

5.7.24 Richard Allen Motions Hearing.pdf

drive.google.com

I thought Chain of Custody was really important but if he can just bring in witnesses, then why even bother in the first place?

 

[FrostedGlass]

A couple days post murders RL showed a reporter the area.

I believe it shows of date of Feb -17. Unsure if this is date video posted or made or both. So kids found 14th in daylight hours.

And then this report says the investigators went BaCK to the crime scene to look for more evidence - three weeks after the murders.

Seems to me they did release the scene and then go back later. Weird.

Maybe they went back and got the branches for evidence then?

 

[m00c0w]

The gag order doesn’t pertain to motions presented to the Court. Perhaps it’s better said that the D commonly ‘circumvents’ the gag order by including unnecessary and irrelevant information in their motions. For example, the FMs, it was only required to prove LE lied supported by facts. Outlining their theory about how Abby died or if she was hung had no bearing whatsoever as LE did not even refer to her manner of death in the PCA which the D alleged contained lies.

Another broad example is the several FMs have become the source for virtually anything being discussed about this case as if it’s a case reference manual.

JMO

Yes. The Franks Motion was about 130 pages too long. They could have very simply pointed out how TL “lied” in the search warrant affidavit without all of the extraneous stuff about odinism, included witness depositions, affidavits, recordings, etc. It seems pretty clear to me the goal in the Franks Memos were primarily to get defense-friendly information and narratives into the public sphere so that people would start questioning the prosection’s case. And it appears to have worked, to their credit.

I firmly believe most of the hype will be absolutely quashed at trial. The defense, in my opinion, never intended to actually get to trial. I’m still not sure we will if it starts looking bad enough for them. I can absolutely see them changing plea to avoid having to reveal the actual truth behind everything in open court.

All my opinion.

 

[TTF14]

KA probably had cake and coffee after Libby's funeral, which she attended afaik. So the couple had, what they needed for their spiritual well-being. MOO

Please provide a link for your assertion that KA attended Libby's funeral.

 

[tlcya]

To establish chain of custody, the prosecution must show that:

1. The evidence was collected from a specific location.
2. The evidence was handled by a limited number of people.
3. The evidence was stored in a secure location.
4. The evidence was not tampered with or contaminated.

Witnesses would be testifying as to the proper handling and securing of the evidence. I am not sure why it would be considered odd that the state would be having witnesses do just that? How else would you establish chain of custody?

 

[m00c0w]

IPhone 6

From what I understand Libby had issues with her phone as in it was glitchy.

Her grandmother had no plans to get her a new one so Libby did a full reset over the weekend of February 4th-February 5th, 2017.

All data on it was deleted in full.

Maybe there is a possibility the full reset didn't resolve what was going on with her phone as to why it turned on like it did at 4:33 am.

JMT

Has it been stated anywhere if the text messages that came in were discovered in the phone dump or through the call records? (Question is open to anyone, your post just reminded me)

 

[TTF14]

My expectation for honest filings to the court would not include things that are "not entirely true". Maybe my standards is too high for this DT? I'm thinking they are after getting a peek, just a peek, behind the DT curtain with the Due Process Gang conduct. It's been illuminating and revolting. AJMO

When "bloody" was put into the PCA and it wasn't actually said by SC, that also is "not entirely true." The P and the D need to be held to the same standard, as I'm sure we all agree.

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

To establish chain of custody, the prosecution must show that:

1. The evidence was collected from a specific location.
2. The evidence was handled by a limited number of people.
3. The evidence was stored in a secure location.
4. The evidence was not tampered with or contaminated.

Witnesses would be testifying as to the proper handling and securing of the evidence. I am not sure why it would be considered odd that the state would be having witnesses do just that? How else would you establish chain of custody?

Where is this from? Is there anything about the timing of the collection? (i.e. not three days later, not after the crime scene has been released, etc.? )