Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #192

[Vern]

...

To be fair, only the person who actually made the shape will know for sure what it is. Everyone else is kinda just guessing.

This is the Laguz.

Laguz - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

RSBM

Unfortunately we've already heard testimony from an expert during the 3 day hearings that the individual you reference above who made the shape in her dying moments is now deceased.

Justice for these girls.

 

[grannygates]

I am posting on a forum from a different country if I wish to believe somebody is guilty I will. I don’t have any sway in Court proceedings or the outcome in this case.

So just for the record I believe he is guilty and I believe they will prove that at trial. I have no Qualms about stating this.

I also stand by my post about innocent peoples lives being ruined when they have been investigated and not a part of the case. They were not on the bridge dressed as RA/BG.

If you don’t believe people deserve “innocent until proven guilty” then why would you care if someone else believes a total stranger is guilty of something? It would be mimicking your own belief in being free to accuse anyone of being guilty of a crime.

You have no idea where any of these people were that day and neither do law enforcement and that’s the problem.

 

[grannygates]

That is impossible. How can the DA look at someone as 'innocent' and then charge them with a double murder and arrest them?

Really? I am pretty sure the D team is publicly accusing them of taking part in a ritual sacrifice of 2 young girls. So YES, they are being accused of something. Something horrific.

This latest motion spells it all out, person by person, publicly named and shamed. With no solid evidence of them even being in Delphi at the time.

They’re supposed to actually find the evidence that they believe can prove the person is guilty before they arrest them. The public and jury are supposed to start the trial with assuming the defendant is innocent and having the state actually prove the persons guilt.

I’m not sure how much you’ve investigated into the defense allegations yourself, but most of what they’re talking about you can google and confirm for yourself.

So big warning to all - if you don’t want people to know that you’re a white supremacist who belongs to a racist skinhead group that paints trees with human blood, don’t put it on your public Facebook.

 

[mrjitty]

You’re correct. I believe there are a few things that probably weren’t brought up in as much detail during the motion in limine hearing, but it’s largely a rehashing of it.

My opinion since I wasn’t at the hearing to know for sure.

I feel once more like this might I have been written more for the fan base than the Judge.

We just had a evidential hearing where they had their chance to make the case for a BH+PW theory. This motion simply confirms that it's just fanfic that lacks even one single piece of evidence to connect the 2 men with the crime

MOO

 

[Salah11]

You have no idea where any of these people were that day and neither do law enforcement and that’s the problem.

i must of misunderstand the 3 day hearings. Can you please provide a link where LE say they didn’t investigate and clear people that the defense have publicly shamed?

 

[FromGermany1]

I thought he worked on cars lol I think people might think he is far less competent than he actually is due to that diminished mental capacity statement. The only person I knew didn’t drive was KK in his interrogation transcript. MOO

Does someone remember a red shed, where "working on cars" was said to have usually taken place? Oh, all these little puzzle pieces, which were sometimes promising and then nothing! This barn never appeared again, but somehow all the clues were stored in the furthest corner of the brain.

7 years waiting time are much too long and content-rich, and you slowly lose patience. I can't imagine, how the families of Abby/Libby may feel. In any case, they will feel bad, and I am very sorry.

 

[grannygates]

i must of misunderstand the 3 day hearings. Can you please provide a link where LE say they didn’t investigate and clear people?

They have 1 persons work records that don’t cover the states full timeline. 5 people completely unaccounted for.

Unless they came up with different alibis since Murphys testimony on the 1st?

You can search each persons name and see their information and how they don’t have alibis and weren’t ever “cleared”. I hear echos of the DC interview exclaiming that they haven’t cleared anybody.

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion.pdf

www.scribd.com

 

[Salah11]

They’re supposed to actually find the evidence that they believe can prove the person is guilty before they arrest them. The public and jury are supposed to start the trial with assuming the defendant is innocent and having the state actually prove the persons guilt.

I’m not sure how much you’ve investigated into the defense allegations yourself, but most of what they’re talking about you can google and confirm for yourself.

So big warning to all - if you don’t want people to know that you’re a white supremacist who belongs to a skinhead group that paints trees with human blood, don’t put it on your public Facebook.

BBM
They are still not on trial for murdering two teenage girls.

So I would happily invite them around for a Lovely Sunday Roast as a Facebook post is hardly factual. They could have been hacked. I couldn’t Invite Ricky as I couldn’t trust him with a Knife.

IMO

 

[Salah11]

They have 1 persons work records that don’t cover the states full timeline. 5 people completely unaccounted for.

Unless they came up with different alibis since Murphys testimony on the 1st?

You can search each persons name and see their information and how they don’t have alibis and weren’t ever “cleared”. I hear echos of the DC interview exclaiming that they haven’t cleared anybody.

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion.pdf

www.scribd.com

What considered the full timeline as I have it down as 1.30-3.30pm?

 

[katydid23]

He wants to keep out what HE doesn't want in. Delphi is not the Chicago metro area. We're not talking about thousands of numbers that would appear in a report.

IMO, there's no reason to keep ANY of it out.

Yes there is good reason to keep some out. This is a short trial. The State has a lot of important evidence to get through. They do not want the D to throw a bunch of irrelevant phone numbers around and force the P to waste a lot of precious time explaining how Mia and her 80 yr old grandma were picked up walking near the bridge at 3 pm, when the P already know the grandma was in a wheelchair and they never left the parking lot and saw nothing important.

Both sides should stipulate that certain phone numbers could be written off and ignored so they can focus upon relevant data.IMO

 

[grannygates]

What considered the full timeline as I have it down as 1.30-3.30pm?

They’re saying OBG is involved again now so 3:57 plus the time to walk from wherever he was to the CPS building to his.. white truck?

 

[sunshineray]

I feel like you are really missing the irony in your own post. This is why innocent until proven guilty is so important. We should not be looking at any of these people as “guilty” of anything, including RA.

Right now the focus of the defense is that there were people that should have been investigated further and they were not. No one is saying they’re guilty of anything.

But RA has said he's guilty, over 60 times!

The DT DID say they were guilty. Those four men were accused by the DT again and again as being guilty...even though they cannot be placed at the area, on the the day, at the time of the murders.

Their names are now Mudd because of the DT. RA's name is muddied by his own words, his confessions, with details, of murdering two girls. AJMO

 

[susiQ]

Well, do we know how tall she was. She was a minor so could have been 5 ft or even under. If he is 5ft4 then she'd come up to his shoulder or just a little above. Not enough of a miss to rule him out, imo.

Or, she could have been taller than 5ft. I have four 13 year old grandchildren that are between 5’2 and 5’5.

 

[sunshineray]

The girls woke up around 10 am and had pancakes after then.

Can't be a morning arrival time.

Exactly, yet some have put forth that theory...</3

 

[grannygates]

BBM
They are still not on trial for murdering two teenage girls.

So I would happily invite them around for a Lovely Sunday Roast as a Facebook post is hardly factual. They could have been hacked. I couldn’t Invite Ricky as I couldn’t trust him with a Knife.

IMO

I think you may be missing the point of the defenses argument and really overstating the evidence that was used to arrest RA.

The issue in this case is that these other people have known connections to the victims and the crime scene and they were not completely investigated so we do not know what their involvement is. It could be nothing, it could be something. But we don’t know so how can we be confident in the investigation into RA with so many loose ends and unknowns.

 

[katydid23]

Even if they do get called, I don’t know what bearing their testimony may have on the case at hand really.

Well, there was testimony that RA confessed to 'other' molestations and named them and apologised. I have wondered if LE spoke to other local girls to see if he had been inappropriate with anyone?

If so, he is in a world of trouble. IMO

 

[sunshineray]

First time hearing about it.

Just because you know something about one thing doesn't mean everyone else does.

I'm not supportive of anyone being unfairly treated, hounded or harassed - this extends to the children and families of convicted murderers as well.

I don't need to hear from them to know those 4 men's families had to be devastated to hear what the DT has said about them, with absolutely no evidence of fact, not conjecture, FACT. MO

 

[katydid23]

Totally agree. None of this is about "confusing" a jury. Hogwash.

I think it might be about potentially confusing a jury because that is a main legal point concerning suppression of evidence.

Rule 403. Excluding Relevant Evidence for Prejudice, Confusion, or Other Reasons

The court may exclude relevant evidence if its probative value is substantially outweighed by a danger of one or more of the following: unfair prejudice, confusing the issues, misleading the jury, undue delay, or needlessly presenting cumulative evidence.

Indiana Rules of Evidence

Exclusions of Evidence Deemed Confusing, Misleading, or Prejudicial. Under Evidence Code 352 EC, even if the evidence is relevant and admissible, a judge may exclude it if they believe it would be confusing or misleading or if its admission could unfairly prejudice the jury against the defendant.

https://www.egattorneys.com/rules-o...med Confusing,the jury against the defendant.​

 

[katydid23]

I think you may be missing the point of the defenses argument and really overstating the evidence that was used to arrest RA.

The issue in this case is that these other people have known connections to the victims and the crime scene and they were not completely investigated so we do not know what their involvement is. It could be nothing, it could be something. But we don’t know so how can we be confident in the investigation into RA with so many loose ends and unknowns.

If it was 'something' the Task Force would have continued investigating them. Instead, they moved on to other suspects after they decided this was a dead end. They have a lot more information than we do. IMO

 

[sunshineray]

I think you may be missing the point of the defenses argument and really overstating the evidence that was used to arrest RA.

The issue in this case is that these other people have known connections to the victims and the crime scene and they were not completely investigated so we do not know what their involvement is. It could be nothing, it could be something. But we don’t know so how can we be confident in the investigation into RA with so many loose ends and unknowns.

They were completely investigated, couldn't be put at the scene, at the time...which means they didn't do it. That's what Murphy and Click said on the stand during the hearings when asked, Can you put them there? "No". What more is there to say about it?