Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

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Caylee Advocate said:
Hi @twall. By you living in that area, had you ever seen, or heard of a Jury Questionnaire asking potential Jurors so many personal and other strange (IMO) questions?
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No. I recently received a jury summons for a murder trial that is scheduled for October and there was no questionnaire with it. 2 years ago I received a jury summons for a child molestation trial that had a one or two page questionnaire. Here is a link to George Wagner questionnaire (OH death penalty case) that is quite lengthy.

 
sunshineray said:
Just words, just bravado, MO. He knew they knew. MO
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Richard Allen did a great job of acting like an innocent man during the October 2022 interrogations. When asked about being the man on the bridge, he denied it. He denied it is his voice on tape. He denied it was his gun (or only an unspent cartridge) that was used in the crime.

If he really did know that LE knew he was the killer, he did a really good job of playing innocent instead of just stopping questioning and asking for an attorney. Richard Allen did eventually stop the questioning, but only when he felt that he thought that maybe they thought that he might be the killer. He even said he was willing to give them his cell phone to check out before he felt like they were trying to point the finger at him for the Delphi murders.

Before Richard Allen confessed over 60 times to the crime, he did a really good job making it appear he was an innocent man.
 
somequestions said:
Richard Allen did a great job of acting like an innocent man during the October 2022 interrogations. When asked about being the man on the bridge, he denied it. He denied it is his voice on tape. He denied it was his gun (or only an unspent cartridge) that was used in the crime.

If he really did know that LE knew he was the killer, he did a really good job of playing innocent instead of just stopping questioning and asking for an attorney. Richard Allen did eventually stop the questioning, but only when he felt that he thought that maybe they thought that he might be the killer. He even said he was willing to give them his cell phone to check out before he felt like they were trying to point the finger at him for the Delphi murders.

Before Richard Allen confessed over 60 times to the crime, he did a really good job making it appear he was an innocent man.
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It's very subjective without the full interview transcript. You see that and I see someone acting like they're cooperating. He knew as soon as they started questions that LE was thinking he was the killer. Let me offer them my phone (6 years later, most likely not the one he had in 2017) to check. Deny this, deny that Leave my wife alone. Let me say to my wife, if it will make you feel better, i can tell them what they want to know. hummmm not so convincing for innocence. AJMO
 
twall said:
No. I recently received a jury summons for a murder trial that is scheduled for October and there was no questionnaire with it. 2 years ago I received a jury summons for a child molestation trial that had a one or two page questionnaire. Here is a link to George Wagner questionnaire (OH death penalty case) that is quite lengthy.

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Was George’s questionnaire sent out with the summons?
 
sunshineray said:
"The questionnaire asks if the potential juror has concerns about being exposed to disturbing images surrounding the death of two teenage girls and if they have any DNA, ballistics or hate crimes expertise."

DNA I get, ballistics I get, "hate crimes" I'm at a loss unless they mean all sexual crimes against women are being grouped as mysoginistically inspired?
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Didn't the defense bring in racial hate crimes? I know, there have been so many deflects it's hard to keep track of them. At one time it was alluded to dating by relative of one of the girls dating a person of another race.
 
This is a long one - hopefully I have all the motions correct.

Friday, August 23rd:
*Status Hearing (@ 1pm ET) – IN – Abigail Joyce Williams (13) & Liberty Rose Lynn German (14) (Missing Feb. 13, 2017, found killed Feb. 14, 2017, after walking on a local hiking trail & were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the Monon High Bridge Trail, Delphi) – *Richard “Ricky/Rick” Matthew Allen (44 @ time of crime/50/now 51) arrested & booked (10/26/22) into the Carroll County Jail & charged & arraigned (10/28/22) with 2 counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims. Plead not guilty. Held without bond.
Amended charges (1/18/24/granted 3/18/24): 2 counts of felony murder (knowingly & intentionally), 2 counts of murder (while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims). Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westfield Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westfield to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial [8/1/24]. Carroll County
Trial set to begin with jury selection on 10/15/24 & Trial reset to begin on 10/19/24. Mondays thru Saturdays from 9am to 5pm.
Allen County Judge Frances C. Gull presiding / Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland & Special Prosecutor James David Luttrull, Jr.
Andrew Baldwin & Bradley Rozzi are Allen’s public appointed attorneys & added Jennifer Auger [addressing the circumstances surrounding digital forensics].
Jury will be chosen from among 600 people from Fort Wayne [will be transported to Delphi for trial]. Special judge Frances Gull expects jury selection to take approximately three days. She said the jury would then be sworn in on the fourth day (10/18/24) with opening statements beginning by Day 5, 10/19/24. That means the jury could start hearing testimony on 10/19/24. After jury selection, the actual trial phase of the proceedings will take place at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Gull confirmed Allen’s trial will take place six days a week — Monday through Saturday — if there are no religious objections from any of the jurors. Jury will be sequestered.
Case & court info from 4/19/21 thru 7/31/24 reference post #991 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-189.719769/page-50
Judge Gull will hold hearings in Carroll County on Tuesday, Wednesday & Thursday. She’s scheduled to hear multiple motions over the course of the three days:
*State’s Motion for Admissibility (filed May 6, 2024) [Under Advisement/8/1/24]
*Defense Motion to Suppress Second Statement (filed April 15, 2024) [Under Advisement/7/31/24]
*State’s Objection to Defendant’s Motion to Suppress (filed April 15, 2024) [Under Advisement/7/31/24]
*Defendant’s Motion to Compel & Motion for Sanctions (filed April 23, 2024) [Under Advisement/7/30/24]. [Demied on 8/15/24].
*Defendant’s Motion to Vacate Safekeeping Order (filed May 13, 2024) [Under Advisement/7/30/24]. 8/1/24: Order to vacate granted by Judge.
*State’s Motion in Limine (filed April 28, 2024) [Under Advisement/8/1/24].
*Defense Response to State’s Motion in Limine [Under Advisement/8/1/24].
*Defendant’s Second Motion to Dismiss (filed May 20, 2024) [Under Advisement/7/30/24/withdrawn by defense/7/31/24] [Denied on 8/15/24].
*State’s Response to Defendant’s Second Motion to Dismiss (filed June 9, 2024) [Under Advisement/7/31/24]
7/31/24 Update: The 2nd motion filed to suppress evidence, has been removed by the defense. First half of the day the Court heard testimony regarding the 1st motion to suppress. During two hours on the stand, former warden at Westville testified that Allen confessed to him, saying he’d murdered the girls, calling them by name. Prosecution suggests that the situation involves 61 incriminating statements over two months offered by Allen. Allen’s psychologist testified that normal DOC rules say someone with his type of mental health should only be in solitary for 30 days straight but he was in solitary for 12 times that. They got around those rules because he technically wasn’t incarcerated, he was just in the “safe keeper” program. She said other inmates were yelling at him to kill himself & that he was a baby killer. Allen told his family he felt like he was being mentally tortured. The prosecution says his mental health was properly treated & got better with medication. Also, an ISP detective in his testimony said Allen was being treated better than all the other inmates. Because of Allen’s “voluntary confessions,” the prosecution argued the motion to suppress should be thrown out altogether. See post #744, page #38, thread #189 for more info on Day 2. The judge says she will take the State’s motion to dismiss under advisement, and allowed testimony, but voiced concerns about the language inside the defense’s motion. The two witnesses we heard from so far were employees of the DOC while Allen was at the Westville correctional facility. Some of their testimony was contradicting to each other. The witnesses appeared on the second day of what is expected to be three days of marathon hearings on key motions filed by the prosecution & defense attorneys. See post #840, page 42, thread #189 for more info on hearing. Motions hearing continues on Thursday, 8/1/24.
8/1/24 Update: One more day of hearings in Delphi. Today the prosecutor is asking the judge for the ability to keep information from the jury. They want to suppress statements by the defense team that points to an alternate theory that someone else committed the murders.
*State's Motion in Limine summary: State wants Judge to forbid Defense from the following at trial: *Personal attacks on State Counsel; Personal opinions about evidence, witnesses, outcomes, or penalties; the defense should not make comments not supported by admissible evidence; the defense should not attempt to indoctrinate the jury with substantive issues or prejudge the credibility of witnesses during jury selection; hypothetical questions: The defense should not ask hypothetical questions; irrelevant 3rd party motives: the defense should not introduce evidence of third-party motives that are irrelevant; any references to 9 specific individuals (including Brad Holder, Kegan Kline, Elvis Fields, Ron Logan, etc) or concepts, including "Odinism"; investigations by Todd Click: Any reference to investigations or reports by Click; geofencing evidence: exclude state's own geofencing reports and/or related testimony from FB Agent Horan, who prepared this data for the State's investigation; prio bad acts of any witnesses unless relevant to the current charges.; discovery file labels: The defense should not comment on how discovery was labeled; PowerPoints & Executive Briefs: references to PowerPoints or executive briefs from the investigation that are not relevant. Link: Motion in Limine
*Defense Response to State's Motion in Limine summary: Requests a hearing & objects to all items based on a combination of the State's requests being overly broad, is unsupported by specific facts or law & usurps Defendant's 6th Amendment right to present defense.
*See link for summary for what each of the 10 motions addresses & links to full documents: https://x.com/corndawgcourt/status/...s/motion-in-limine.648928/convMessage-2198879
*Prosecutors called a blood spatter expert [Maj. Patrick Cicero, a blood specialist & forensics expert from the LaPorte County Sheriff's Office] to refute defenses claims that the blood on tree was a painted rune. The blood was a transfer stain & not painted, but the expert couldn’t say exactly who (Libby or the killer) was responsible for transferring the blood to the tree. The defense’s expert [Dr. Dawn Perlmutter, who wrote a book on ritualistic crime scene investigation, said the teens' deaths have "all the elements" of a murder done as part of a ritual] in ritualistic killings firmly believes the mark on the tree was a rune & the sticks on the bodies represented a rune. Prosecutors argued that the sticks were in an effort to cover up the bodies. The defense continued to point the finger at several third-party suspects, but none of the law enforcement witnesses could place those suspects at the scene with hard evidence like DNA. The defense also tried to blow up the prosecutions timeline of when the girls were killed so they could open up the possibility of a third-party suspect committing the murders. Allen got a win at the end. Gull removed the safekeeping order & gave Allen to the custody of the Carroll County Sheriff’s Office. The Carroll County sheriff would not say where he would be housed, but earlier this week, he said he’d talked with the Cass County Sheriff’s Office about housing him in Cass County. Judge Gull also heard arguments Tuesday on the defense team's motion to dismiss the case based on allegations the prosecution has withheld evidence that could point to other suspects or exonerate Allen. On Wednesday, Gull heard testimony on a defense motion to suppress more than 60 incriminating statements Allen made in early 2023 to his family & others at the prison where he was kept in solitary confinement. The judge will issue rulings on the motions at a later time.
*Summary of hearing at this link: https://eu.indystar.com/story/news/...ts-attorney-says-he-has-evidence/74630369007/
More info in article at: https://www.basedinlafayette.com/p/...ichard?r=2fe&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Summary of all 3 days – Post #721, page 37, thread #190.
8/8/24 Docket update: Witness and/or Exhibit List filed. Defendant's Notice of Submission of Supplemental witness & Exhibit list to the State. Praecipe for Transcript both filed by Allen.
8/12/24 Docket update: Hearing scheduling activity. A Status hearing is set on 8/23/24 @ 1pm. And Jury trial on 10/14/24 has been rescheduled to start on 10/25/24 thru 11/15/24 all starting at 9am.
8/13/24 Docket Update: Order Issued. Court orders this matter set for a status hearing 8/23/24 @ 1pm in the Carroll Circuit Court. The first portion of the hearing is closed to the public. The second portion of the hearing will be open to the public. Court to notify. Judge Frances Gull. Noticed to Mceland, Baldwin, Rozzi, Luttrull, Diener & Auger. 8/13/24 Docket update: Order Issued. The Court having had Allen's 3rd Franks Notice & Request for Franks hearing based upon newly discovered evidence & request for findings of facts & conclusions of law upon any ruling on this requested (filed 3/13/24), the State's response to defense' 3rd Motion for Franks hearing (filed 4/3/24) & the Defense reply Prosecutions' response to 3rd Franks Memo (filed 4/5/24) under advisement , now denies the 3rd request for a Franks hearing without hearing. The Court finds Affidavit submitted in support of the issuance of the search warrant contained info that a reasonable belief existed that evidence of the murders could be found in the defendant's vehicles & home. The Affidavit did not contain false statements nor did the Affiant omit statutes with reckless disregard. Further, the Court does not find the Affiant intended to mislead the Judge by failing to present relevant info. Order Issued. The Court having had defendant's Allen 4th Franks Motion based on newly disclosed evidence & request for hearing (filed 4/29/24) the State's response to Defense's 4th motion for franks hearing (filed 5/17/24), & the defendant's reply to State's response to defense's 4th Motion for Franks hearing & request for hearing for reasons detailed Herein (filed 7/23/24), now denies same without hearing. The trial court is obligated to conduct a Franks hearing only if the defendant makes a preliminary showing that the Affiant knowingly or intentionally, or with reckless disregard for the truth, included a false statement in the search warrant affidavit & that the allegedly false statement was necessary to a finding of probable cause. The defense has not made such a preliminary showing & therefore, is not entitled to a Franks hearing. Both Orders signed by Judge Francis Gull. Noticed: McLeland, Baldwin, Rozzi, Luttrull, Diener & Auger.
8/13/24 Docket update: Document filed. Defendant's Supplemental submission regarding State's Motion in Limine. [The defense filed a response arguing the restrictions would violate Allen's Sixth Amendment Rights. They also brought up police statements delivered when the prosecution wanted to keep the probable cause for Allen's arrest sealed. Those police statements mentioned that the investigation was "on going." Allen's attorneys say that means the State has admitted someone else could have been responsible for the murders. “] See post #275, page 14, thread #192.
8/15/24 Docket update: Memorandum of Law in support of admission of evidence of alternative theories & third-party perpetrators filed by Auger for Allen. See link at post #1065, page 54, thread #192 for more info.
8/15/24 Docket update: Order issued. The Court, having taken defendant's Motion to Compel & Motion for Sanctions under advisement following a hearing conducted 7/30/24 & having reviewed the submitted exhibits & arguments of counsel, now denies the defendant's Motion to Compel & Motion for Sanctions as the defendant has failed to comply with Trial Rule 26(F) in seeking an informal resolution of discovery disputes; however, the Court will order the State to turn over Sergeant Cecil's report within ten (10) days of date of this order & that any new discovery be provided within seven (7) days of receipt. The Court further orders the parties to exchange a list of trial exhibits by 10/1/24. Signed by Judge Fances Gull. Noticed: McLeland, Baldwin, Rozzi, Luttrull, Diener & Auger.
8/16/24 Docket update: Order issued. The Court, having had the Defendant's Second Motion to Dismiss Based Upon Newly Discovered Destroyed And/or Missing Exculpatory or Potentially Useful Evidence under advisement following a hearing conducted on 7/30/24 & having reviewed the exhibits submitted & the arguments of counsel now finds that the law is against the defendant. No evidence has been presented to the Court that the State destroyed exculpatory evidence nor that the State acted in bad faith. The defense argues that this alleged exculpatory evidence all relates to one person, Brad Holder. However, no evidence has been presented to support this argument, nor has any evidence been presented to negate the evidence offered by the State which cleared Brad Holder of involvement in these crimes. Defendant's Second Motion to Dismiss is therefore denied as unsupported by the law and the evidence. Signed by Judge Frances Gull. Noticed: McLeland, Baldwin, Rozzi, Luttrull, Diener & Auger.
8/20/24 Docket update: Correspondence to/from Court filed. [Subject: Cease & Desist: Unlawful Transcript Fees/want to charge him $5.57 instead of $1 per page] filed by Anthony Greeno, True Crime Investigates.
link: Adobe Acrobat
 
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Betty P said:
IANAL, but this is unusual. I’ve served as a juror before and the questions don’t usually occur until after you appear to serve.

The way this case has been handled from the start has been unusual. It’s both puzzling and nerve-wracking to observe.
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Considering what the defense has done while under a gag order, leaked discovery numerous time and filed 4 FMs with lots of their narratives and flooded the SM with more protected discovery and outright lies...it seems a perfectly logical thing to have questionaries go out before bringing people in to the selection. Hopefully the lawyers can weed out the prospectives that are less than truthful on the questionnaires. MO
 
Caylee Advocate said:
Hi @twall. By you living in that area, had you ever seen, or heard of a Jury Questionnaire asking potential Jurors so many personal and other strange (IMO) questions?
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Has there ever been a case where the defense tried sooo hard and long to influence a prospective jury pool whole under a gag order, especially working with SM agents? The defense's desperate measures have been beyond what normal is involved and need to be circumvented in the hopes of finding a fair jury.
AJMO
 
sunshineray said:
Considering what the defense has done while under a gag order, leaked discovery numerous time and filed 4 FMs with lots of their narratives and flooded the SM with more protected discovery and outright lies...it seems a perfectly logical thing to have questionaries go out before bringing people in to the selection. Hopefully the lawyers can weed out the prospectives that are less than truthful on the questionnaires. MO
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True. I’ve thought more about it and perhaps it will help. It seems risky, given this defense team.
 
twall said:
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Thank you for posting this.

MOO
I have no idea what to make of this. Surely many of the folks who received them will immediately go to the net and start digging. Then we now have the news reporting on the questions.

I like the possibility of letting 3rd party info in. I also like this question; it will be a way to double check for honesty.
But, 13 questions get more specific to the Delphi case, asking what they know about defendant Richard Allen’s prosecution, if they’re part of any online groups or YouTube channels that discuss this case and even asking potential jurors what podcasts they listen to.
 
FromGermany1 said:
So 600 recipients will get the juror questionnaire. All recipients, who don't want to return it, will now despite their unwillingness know the names of 21 people, who are involved in some form, whether lawyer or PO or suspect. I don't know, how I feel about it ..... o_O
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I can't help but wonder if that's not the intent of this early screener -- er, in reverse. To weed out potential jurors who have already been exposed to leaks that didn't belong in the public sphere.

JMO
 
TTF14 said:
I'm going with "Heathens" as an umbrella term.

ETA: It's eerily serendipitous (poor choice of word....foretelling?) that the girls would be listening to "Heathens" (reportedly Libby's favorite song IMO) on their way to the trails and then for their bodies to be found staged in such a way to suggest "Heathenism." :( I mean, what are the odds?

Life really is crazier than fiction sometimes. :(

IMO MOO
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I didn't know! What an irony it is!! OMG :eek:

Lyrics
 
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