Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.

Richard Allen has been arrested and charged with the murders of Abby and Libby

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

PICTURES OF ABBY AND LIBBY
Link to post with all threads 1 - 98 (Courtesy of margarita25)
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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Tricia]

A consolidation of ADMIN & MOD notes (edited November 24, 2022):

- Members are allowed to discuss Richard Allen's voice as heard on the Gray Hughes podcast. Members may NOT link directly to RA's wife’s social media accounts.

- Speculation about RA’s possible involvement in other cases belongs in the OTHER CASES thread.

- Speculation that is not based on known fact is not allowed.

- Please use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

- If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to use the Report feature to ask and a Mod or Admin will respond as soon as possible.

- Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

- Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

- Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons of unrelated pictures are not allowed.

 

[Tricia]

Mod Note:
For general JBC II discussions please use his thread. In Abby & Libby’s thread, JBC II should only be discussed in the context of a possible connection to Abby & Libby’s case.
Thanks Everyone!

JBC II Thread:
IN - James Chadwell II, 42, arrested after girl 9, found in his home, Lafayette, 19 Apr 2021 #3

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Tricia]

ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

Click here for The Rules

 

[Knitty]

Please continue here.

 

[Salah11]

I hope in the 60+ confessions that there is something to indicate why he seemed to hold more hatred towards Libby and why she took the brunt of the attack.

Just my interpretation of the the 3 day hearings we heard recently.

 

[snarast]

In my mind KK does NOT have a solid alibi by ”cell phone activity elsewhere”. This is really easy to set up in various ways if you want to. If you know the right ppl, which I would bet ya KK does. Or if you read and run some code snippets.

I Just listened to Prosecutors Briefs with Anya and her MSheet dude as guests and it’s clear that ….KK is not necessarily innocent.

Because the assessment of his alibi is extremely flawed.

By that I did not say RA isn’t involved though.

 

[tlcya]

Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #192

bringing this over from the previous thread.

RE why that SW asked for animal hairs, sounds like they had unidentified hair/fiber samples from the crime scene they were trying to match to something in RL's possession - page 3 of the Logan SW document states the following:

 

[photographer4]

I hope in the 60+ confessions that there is something to indicate why he seemed to hold more hatred towards Libby and why she took the brunt of the attack.

Just my interpretation of the the 3 day hearings we heard recently.

The ones we didn’t get to hear due to a blackout on cameras and electronics ya mean? Still wondering - I’ve not come across any official transcripts of these yet - has anyone seen them in their travels?

 

[ClearAhead]

The ones we didn’t get to hear due to a blackout on cameras and electronics ya mean? Still wondering - I’ve not come across any official transcripts of these yet - has anyone seen them in their travels?

What blackouts are you talking about? The phonecalls were recorded, not on camera.

https://www.mywabashvalley.com/news/indiana-news/detective-testifies-richard-allen-confessed-more-than-60-times-to-delphi-murders/?nxsparam=1

Indiana State Police Detective Brian Harshman testified that he has reviewed 650-670 of Allen’s phone calls during his incarceration covering more than 150 hours.

Harshman said Allen has confessed more than 60 times, most often to his wife and mother, who expressed disbelief, concerns about his mental state or changed the subject.

It was in late March, after his “Come to Jesus” moment, when the confession phone calls began, said the detective.

“He talked about these crimes very specifically,” Harshman said.

Prosecutor Stacy Diener asked Harshman if Allen’s confessions contained details of the crime.

“That’s correct,” answered Harshman, adding that Allen also discussed his motivation in allegedly committing the killings

 

[snarast]

The ones we didn’t get to hear due to a blackout on cameras and electronics ya mean? Still wondering - I’ve not come across any official transcripts of these yet - has anyone seen them in their travels?

No but according to MS from the hearings there are such documentation in several of the instances.

He seems to have suffered from pressure to speak - a term often used to describe the presentation style of a person in the throes of bipolar mania. Because he seems to have blurted it out whenever possible.

 

[MiniMoo]

@justtrish

"Question sorta related to the timeline.

If the girls died at 2:30pm or so on 2/13 wouldn't a coroner or ME be able to tell that or at least be able to distinguish between them dying about 430am on 2/14 (14 hours later) and if they had actually been dead nearly 24 hours"

It could depend...

I reckon the contents of their stomachs would give an exact time or close to it depending on how slow or fast they digested what they had for breakfast that day.

 

[mrjitty]

@Cyber sleuth

i agree they might have run out of time to make closing arguments so there was an agreement to put those in a follow up motion but i’d kind of expect that in a day or two not 2 weeks later. after all this is everything they were already prepared to say at the hearing.

it is possible it was agreed they’d get 2 weeks like you suggest.

but it seems odd to me you wouldn’t turn this around fast if you really thought you had a shot with the judge

MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

@justtrish

"Question sorta related to the timeline.

If the girls died at 2:30pm or so on 2/13 wouldn't a coroner or ME be able to tell that or at least be able to distinguish between them dying about 430am on 2/14 (14 hours later) and if they had actually been dead nearly 24 hours"

It could depend...

I reckon the contents of their stomachs would give an exact time or close to it depending on how slow or fast they digested what they had for breakfast that day.

Exactly. I’m just not going to believe the autopsy couldn’t determine if the girls were murdered only a few hours after eating their breakfast or almost 24 hours later. That isn’t junk science. Estimated time of death based on autopsy results is heard in virtually every trial.

 

[TTF14]

Bring this over from thread #192. @m00c0w said:

According to the defense documents, after receiving a buccal swab (which is essentially spit), he asked if his spit was found on one of the girls but he could provide an explanation, would he still be in trouble. It seems apparent to me that he was trying to potentially rationalize why his spit was collected and was freaking out about the possibility of somehow being implicated in the crime. That is not the same as admitting he spit on anyone, and also not the same as just asking the question in a vacuum. It would hold more weight, IMO, if his saliva was not just collected and on his mind.

Regardless, the one question does not establish probable cause that evidence of the murder of AW and LG would be found at EF’s house. Even if a white truck was seen at the CPS building after searching had started. Even if they can’t firmly place EF anywhere. Most importantly, they can’t place him near the crime scene. They have to provide evidence he at least participated in the murders, which they had none. They had a question, a random white truck, and a lack of evidence. That’s barely getting over a reasonable suspicion threshold.

All my opinion.

BBM

This makes sense to me taking the buccal swap part of it into account. If EF is low IQ and really does not have a good comprehension of DNA, maybe he thought they were only comparing spit. And his mind went to "spitting on the girls." If he really is mentally challenged and doesn't realize that saliva creates DNA that can be matched to ANY fluid, he might have been afraid if any spit was found it could be pinned on him.

 

[Salah11]

The ones we didn’t get to hear due to a blackout on cameras and electronics ya mean? Still wondering - I’ve not come across any official transcripts of these yet - has anyone seen them in their travels?

Yes those ones

I listened to The Murder Sheet to get some of the information from the 3 day hearings.

It seems like Libby definitely fought more but he could have Knocked out Abby as she was so slight before killing her. IMO

 

[m00c0w]

@Cyber sleuth

i agree they might have run out of time to make closing arguments so there was an agreement to put those in a follow up motion but i’d kind of expect that in a day or two not 2 weeks later. after all this is everything they were already prepared to say at the hearing.

it is possible it was agreed they’d get 2 weeks like you suggest.

but it seems odd to me you wouldn’t turn this around fast if you really thought you had a shot with the judge

MOO

Given she just ruled on the 7/30 motions today, I’d say you’re spot on. Unless the goal was to drag out her ruling on that motion even longer.

JMO

 

[TTF14]

In my mind KK does NOT have a solid alibi by ”cell phone activity elsewhere”. This is really easy to set up in various ways if you want to. If you know the right ppl, which I would bet ya KK does. Or if you read and run some code snippets.

I Just listened to Prosecutors Briefs with Anya and her MSheet dude as guests and it’s clear that ….KK is not necessarily innocent.

Because the assessment of his alibi is extremely flawed.

By that I did not say RA isn’t involved though.

KK seems exactly like the type who would know how to do this.

 

[photographer4]

What blackouts are you talking about? The phonecalls were recorded, not on camera.

https://www.mywabashvalley.com/news/indiana-news/detective-testifies-richard-allen-confessed-more-than-60-times-to-delphi-murders/?nxsparam=1

Indiana State Police Detective Brian Harshman testified that he has reviewed 650-670 of Allen’s phone calls during his incarceration covering more than 150 hours.

Harshman said Allen has confessed more than 60 times, most often to his wife and mother, who expressed disbelief, concerns about his mental state or changed the subject.

It was in late March, after his “Come to Jesus” moment, when the confession phone calls began, said the detective.

“He talked about these crimes very specifically,” Harshman said.

Prosecutor Stacy Diener asked Harshman if Allen’s confessions contained details of the crime.

“That’s correct,” answered Harshman, adding that Allen also discussed his motivation in allegedly committing the killings

The post I was replying to referenced the pre trial hearings towards the end. My reply was only in regards to that part.

 

[photographer4]

@justtrish

"Question sorta related to the timeline.

If the girls died at 2:30pm or so on 2/13 wouldn't a coroner or ME be able to tell that or at least be able to distinguish between them dying about 430am on 2/14 (14 hours later) and if they had actually been dead nearly 24 hours"

It could depend...

I reckon the contents of their stomachs would give an exact time or close to it depending on how slow or fast they digested what they had for breakfast that day.

Would the stress of the situation have an effect on digestion? I would this skew the timeline if so?