Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

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Day 3 Hearing:

No time of death was established
nor were temperature readings done on the girls bodies apparently which isn't good for the PT or State.

61 confessions isn't favourable for RA or the DT.

Seems there is no time of death.
The D's own FM says

Page 32 of the Franks memo, footnote 22 states: Jerry Holeman testified in his deposition that investigators estimated the time of death as occurring somewhere between 2:30 and 3:30 p.m. (Holeman depo., p. 17, lines 6-21).
 
Yeah, I know the thread moves fast. I’ve provided some more robust examples up thread and in the previous thread but a couple of the more notable ones are:

- The Ansuz rune now being a Laguz rune (which nullifies a lot of the social media and Hail Odin claims from Franks 1); change is on p6 of the response to the MiL
- EF’s sisters’ statements now being completely omitted from items pointing to his third party culpability - starts on p18
- The timeframe of the crime being moved to 4:33am - the defense spends a page and a half talking about this rendering BH’s alibi invalid starting on p15

My personal belief is you can't properly understand these filings unless you take time out to understand the broader online conspiracies they plug in to.

For instance, in MS's "Zone of Pain" podcast, MS covered a theory apparently promoted by the Due Process Gang that the murders are drug related. Then for me the penny dropped as to why Baldwin examined Click so extensively on the JM drug/abduction stuff, over which a baseless conspiracy was promoted by a D surrogate same day.

For some reason, the D do not mention JM in this filing, but according to the MS reporting he is the central figure who links these alternate suspects together. So no surprise to see him mentioned upthread.

As you sagely note, this D filing makes no sense vis-a-vis bridge guy but i don't think it is supposed to ...

MOO

 
The D's own FM says

Page 32 of the Franks memo, footnote 22 states: Jerry Holeman testified in his deposition that investigators estimated the time of death as occurring somewhere between 2:30 and 3:30 p.m. (Holeman depo., p. 17, lines 6-21).

I really can't wait for the transcript for that 3 Day Hearing is all I can say.
 
The D's own FM says

Page 32 of the Franks memo, footnote 22 states: Jerry Holeman testified in his deposition that investigators estimated the time of death as occurring somewhere between 2:30 and 3:30 p.m. (Holeman depo., p. 17, lines 6-21).


This is why it’s laughable the defence trying to come up with their own time of death because Libby’s phone got some texts in the middle of the night.

All the evidence points to them being murdered within a short period of time when he lead them down the hill. If only their client actually had a alibi.

Moo
 
In the latest MS podcast, 'The Defence's Third Party Memorandum', they mention that during the pretrial hearing a crime-scene analysis expert testified that there was only evidence of absolutely minimal moving of the girls post-death. (It is heart-wrenching, but Greenlee said - it was so minimal, as if someone was checking if Libby was still breathing).

So if the Crime Scene investigator didn't misread the blood evidence TERRIBLY, the idea of the bodies having been moved is a non-starter. I don't think the DT disputed that testimony, btw.

All my understanding and MOO
So was the FBI agent who was granted the search warrant on RL's property wrong?
Excerpt from the article linked. I also included a link to the document.

The document says authorities also found that two articles of clothing from one of the girls “…was missing from the crime scene while the rest of their clothing was recovered. It also appeared the girls’ bodies were moved and staged.”

 
I trust the DT knows the answers to all those questions but I am curious as to why it would matter how "he came to Jesus"? If he was given a Bible, if a guard, inmate, doctor etc suggested reading it with specifics...would that be looked upon as "government agent"ing him into confessing? I don't think so, to me it would be akin to providing food, sustenance. You can eat it or not, your choice. JMO

I'm curious why you wonder why it would matter to me but since you asked:
I'm a Christian and I'm always interested in hearing the stories of how other Christians came to Jesus. I'm not sure how to answer your question about govt agent"ing at this time.

I need to hear RA's story.
 
I can’t find what I’m looking for and I don’t think I’m dreaming. I could swear I read Libby had an app on her cellphone that measured the amount of time the cellphone was moving (an exercise app?) but I can’t find a source. Hopefully someone knows what I’m talking about.
I can confirm you are not dreaming. iPhones have a health/fitness app. Libby's showed her movement stoped at 2:32 that comes from the hearings Day 3 from Cecil. His testimony starts at approx 1:45 minute mark:

Warning - Sensitive Details

The Delphi Murders: Three Days of Pretrial Hearings: Day Three
 
I agree, it's quite unbelievable and absurb that a man can want to confess so very much and yet his lawyers will not listen to him and it appears, from the recent hearings testimony, neither will some of his close family members. MO
Please provide a link for your assertion that his “lawyers won’t listen to him.” Implying that he’s trying to confess (plead guilty) but his lawyers are going against their client’s wishes is defamatory IMO.
 
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So was the FBI agent who was granted the search warrant on RL's property wrong?
Excerpt from the article linked. I also included a link to the document.

The document says authorities also found that two articles of clothing from one of the girls “…was missing from the crime scene while the rest of their clothing was recovered. It also appeared the girls’ bodies were moved and staged.”


I think it's two different things.

Their bodies were moved by the killer as they died or just after. Evidence (likely blood) indicating AW was carried a short distance and LG dragged 70 feet.

From there, they were moved minimally-- as in, just enough to check for a pulse. So, in other words, as they were photographed is nearly exactly how they were left (as opposed to a scene, for example, where someone is found in the water and pulled to shore). I believe the statement refers to actions taken by the first responders.

JMO
 
Out of the three day hearing.

Her phone tracked the number of steps taken. It ceased all step counting and movement 18 minutes after they were kidnapped.



Here's a post about it from 3 Aug when MS was still being watced by most ... it's already a few theads ago!!


Thank you for this and that must be how LE established the 18 minutes.
 
Day 3 Hearing:

No time of death was established
nor were temperature readings done on the girls bodies apparently which isn't good for the PT or State.

61 confessions isn't favourable for RA or the DT.

Seems there is no time of death.
I expect to hear more about time of death estimate (or lack thereof) at trial. It is Indiana autopsy protocol to determine time interval between wounds and death. Item 11.

IMG_4859.jpeg

 


I have just read this. Part of an article from 4th August.
If as this article claims the people who found the bodies then leaked crime scene information then any of these Odins they are accusing of being involved would of have some knowledge of the crime scene just from reading about it. IMO
I had not seen this article before. Wow!


"Two weeks later, DailyMail.com exclusively revealed that, shortly after Allen's arrest, one of his neighbors saw police digging in his yard to exhume his family's dead cat.

The feline's hair also proved to be a match to samples found on one of the victims."


I'm sure there's more scientific articles written about the distinct uniqueness of each member of a species DNA, besides humans, the rest of the Animal Kingdom.

If true, that it can be proven RA's pet cat's hair was found on one of the girls, how does that get explained away? Maybe this is the real reason for the 4 FMs, trying to get this cat's DNA thrown out?

"As with human beings, a large number of variations in a relatively short sequence of DNA can make it possible to identify an individual and to distinguish that animal from other members of the species."


 
I had not seen this article before. Wow!


"Two weeks later, DailyMail.com exclusively revealed that, shortly after Allen's arrest, one of his neighbors saw police digging in his yard to exhume his family's dead cat.

The feline's hair also proved to be a match to samples found on one of the victims."


I'm sure there's more scientific articles written about the distinct uniqueness of each member of a species DNA, besides humans, the rest of the Animal Kingdom.

If true, that it can be proven RA's pet cat's hair was found on one of the girls, how does that get explained away? Maybe this is the real reason for the 4 FMs, trying to get this cat's DNA thrown out?

"As with human beings, a large number of variations in a relatively short sequence of DNA can make it possible to identify an individual and to distinguish that animal from other members of the species."



Wow! That is quite the article.

Some other claims in this article:

"Police believe they were kidnapped at 2:14 pm and killed within 18 minutes."

"The bombshell report also revealed investigators were looking into whether the girls were victims of a botched kidnapping plot by a local pedophile ring.

Sources close to the investigation claimed that Allen was acting with at least two other men and was involved in a child *** ring, and McLeland openly stated that he believes 'Allen is not the only actor involved in this'."


And in this article, they say RA has ties to KK. That KK cut a deal and led them to RA.

Also: "
According to the source, investigators believe that the plan had been for Allen to kidnap the girls and bring them to Logan's home where he and, allegedly Kline, would rape them.

They said: 'The girls were supposed to be kidnapped for the sex ring, but something went wrong, and he knifed and raped one and almost decapitated the other.

'Logan and Kline never met the girls.'"

Also says a cell phone was taken from the scene.


This is a lot of information we haven't heard. I wonder if any of it is true.
 
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Wow! That is quite the article.

Some other claims in this article:

"Police believe they were kidnapped at 2:14 pm and killed within 18 minutes."

"The bombshell report also revealed investigators were looking into whether the girls were victims of a botched kidnapping plot by a local pedophile ring.

Sources close to the investigation claimed that Allen was acting with at least two other men and was involved in a child *** ring, and McLeland openly stated that he believes 'Allen is not the only actor involved in this'."


And in this article, they say RA has ties to KK. That KK cut a deal and led them to RA.

Also: "
According to the source, investigators believe that the plan had been for Allen to kidnap the girls and bring them to Logan's home where he and, allegedly Kline, would rape them.

They said: 'The girls were supposed to be kidnapped for the sex ring, but something went wrong, and he knifed and raped one and almost decapitated the other.

'Logan and Kline never met the girls.'"

Also says a cell phone was taken from the scene.


This is a lot of information we haven't heard. I wonder if any of it is true.
I think the investigative info is stuff that was formulated early on. I'm sure the first people looked into were known sex offenders and then wherever that led, like to KAK. I think we might just learn that RA was in that section of society. The State seem very confident with their case and the Defense seems very concerned with that search. Can't wait to find out the particulars at trial. MO
 
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I think the investigative info is stuff that was formulated early on. I'm sure the first people looked into were known sex offenders and then wherever that led, like to KAK. I think we might just learn that RA was in that section of society. The State seem very confident with their case and the Defense seems very concerned with that search. Can't wait to find out the particulars at trial. MO
Yes, I’m beginning to think the reason the defense isn’t going for KAK rather than the satanists/odinists is that it is too close to home.
 
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