Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[ClearAhead]

I had not seen this article before. Wow!


"Two weeks later, DailyMail.com exclusively revealed that, shortly after Allen's arrest, one of his neighbors saw police digging in his yard to exhume his family's dead cat.

The feline's hair also proved to be a match to samples found on one of the victims."

Haunting new details about Delphi murders are revealed in court

Libby German, 14, and Abby Williams, 13, disappeared on February 13, 2017, while hiking the Monon High Bridge Trail in Delphi, Indiana. Richard Allen, 51, was charged with their murders

www.dailymail.co.uk

I'm sure there's more scientific articles written about the distinct uniqueness of each member of a species DNA, besides humans, the rest of the Animal Kingdom.

If true, that it can be proven RA's pet cat's hair was found on one of the girls, how does that get explained away? Maybe this is the real reason for the 4 FMs, trying to get this cat's DNA thrown out?

"As with human beings, a large number of variations in a relatively short sequence of DNA can make it possible to identify an individual and to distinguish that animal from other members of the species."

Unique Identifiers in Animal DNA (Published 2018)

Genetic fingerprinting can distinguish individuals from one another in many different species — even to identify poached or illegally trafficked animals.

www.nytimes.com

DM just keeps adding and adding to their earlier reports. The cat hair thing probably came from NG, based on speculation only. They can’t even bother removing the interview with Caldwell’s brother although he has no connection any longer. Clickbate IMO.

 

[sunshineray]

DM just keeps adding and adding to their earlier reports. The cat hair thing probably came from NG. They can’t even bother removing the interview with Caldwell’s brother. Clickbate IMO.

I'm sorry ClearAhead I'm drawing a blank on NG?

 

[ClearAhead]

I'm sorry ClearAhead I'm drawing a blank on NG?

Nancy Grace first sprung the cat hair theory iirc. Nothing mentioned on MSM or LE. It’s been discussed here quite a bit in the past.

 

[Salah11]

Until Trial because of the gag order if the Cat hair theory is correct we won’t know about it imo

I can remember when he was first arrested neighbours mentioned the fire pit being dug up.

IMO

 

[WildHuncher]

I had not seen this article before. Wow!


"Two weeks later, DailyMail.com exclusively revealed that, shortly after Allen's arrest, one of his neighbors saw police digging in his yard to exhume his family's dead cat.

The feline's hair also proved to be a match to samples found on one of the victims."

Haunting new details about Delphi murders are revealed in court

Libby German, 14, and Abby Williams, 13, disappeared on February 13, 2017, while hiking the Monon High Bridge Trail in Delphi, Indiana. Richard Allen, 51, was charged with their murders

www.dailymail.co.uk

I'm sure there's more scientific articles written about the distinct uniqueness of each member of a species DNA, besides humans, the rest of the Animal Kingdom.

If true, that it can be proven RA's pet cat's hair was found on one of the girls, how does that get explained away? Maybe this is the real reason for the 4 FMs, trying to get this cat's DNA thrown out?

"As with human beings, a large number of variations in a relatively short sequence of DNA can make it possible to identify an individual and to distinguish that animal from other members of the species."

Unique Identifiers in Animal DNA (Published 2018)

Genetic fingerprinting can distinguish individuals from one another in many different species — even to identify poached or illegally trafficked animals.

www.nytimes.com

Game over if true. You’ve got a cartridge uniquely matching a gun, his gun. You’ve got cat hair uniquely matching a cat, his cat. He put himself there. People saw him there. He was videoed there. Final nail, over and out.

 

[TTF14]

Game over if true. You’ve got a cartridge uniquely matching a gun, his gun. You’ve got cat hair uniquely matching a cat, his cat. He put himself there. People saw him there. He was videoed there. Final nail, over and out.

If true of course. This media outlet, although approved, doesn't have a stellar reputation.

But....who else? When will those people be arrested? If we believe that article, then should we believe everything in it? Including that he was in a pedophilia group with at least two others?

IMO MOO

 

[WildHuncher]

If true of course. This media outlet, although approved, doesn't have a stellar reputation.

But....who else? When will those people be arrested? If we believe that article, then should we believe everything in it? Including that he was in a pedophilia group with at least two others?

IMO MOO

I didn’t notice the article date at first. Two years old and the KK / A-Shots stuff not visibly reflective of where the P case seems headed now.

Murdered Delphi teens were 'victims of botched kidnapping plot'

Murder suspect Richard Allen, 50, (left) was allegedly part of a child sex ring that planned to kidnap murdered teens Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, in Delphi, Indiana, in 2017.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Still goes about the cat hair, though. If they have that evidence they have their man. No jury could want more.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Here's an informative report on a survey taken regarding cameras in the courtroom. At the one year mark, the Supreme Court’s Office of Communication, Education, and Outreach surveyed press and judges across the state to gather information useful for future trainings.

And now… We take you inside a courtroom

times.courts.in.gov

***
The shift in how press cover courts is tremendous for the cases where cameras are allowed, but the overwhelming majority of cases remain without press camera attention. The rule requires judges to notify parties to the request for a camera in court. In this first year, according to Odyssey case records, press coverage included 255 requests (158 listed as granted and 59 denied). By way of comparison, approximately more than one million new cases are filed in Indiana trial courts each year.
***
The survey of press and judges indicates overall positive reactions to the initiative, with 43 responses from media and 67 responses from judicial officers. Of those surveyed, 88% of press and 85% of judges described the initiative so far as “good” or “great.”
***

 

[ClearAhead]

Until Trial because of the gag order if the Cat hair theory is correct we won’t know about it imo

I can remember when he was first arrested neighbours mentioned the fire pit being dug up.

IMO

There’s a few reasons I doubt the cat hair theory. Much like human hair unless the follicle is attached to the hair, there is no DNA in the actual hair. So if cat hair can only be recognized by the colour of hair, what about all those hoodies KG had in her trunk that she gave each of the girls to wear. None of those people had cats or went to places where there were cats? What about cat hair blowing around in the wind or laying on the ground.

While ID by car hair might make a great headline, I have my doubts it woukd be enough to convict. I think there are too many scenarios the D could use to create doubt about how the cat hair got there and has the potential to make the P look desperate.

NG interviewed the neighbours who claim they saw LE digging in the fire pit area. They neighbours did not claim to see LE exhuming a dead cat. I don’t know how that got turned into where the cat was buried or why Allen’s would even bury their cat in their yard. But maybe NG just liked the story as she was lacking in any other ‘bombshells’. At the time Mrs Allen worked for a vet iirc who would likely have animal crematorium services. It seems to me this story is built on imagination only, perhaps for the neighbours to get their 15 minutes of fame.

MOO and JMO

 

[Megnut]

Game over if true. You’ve got a cartridge uniquely matching a gun, his gun. You’ve got cat hair uniquely matching a cat, his cat. He put himself there. People saw him there. He was videoed there. Final nail, over and out.

If the bullet recovered from his home was also cycled through the same weapon...

 

[MiniMoo]

I expect to hear more about time of death estimate (or lack thereof) at trial. It is Indiana autopsy protocol to determine time interval between wounds and death. Item 11.

View attachment 525222

https://www.in.gov/ctb/files/section501.pdf

I thought it would be something that would be brought up in the trial as well.

But apparently during Day 3 of the Hearing it actually came out that there was no time of death on the autopsy report and no body temperatures taken on the autopsy report.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Game over if true. You’ve got a cartridge uniquely matching a gun, his gun. You’ve got cat hair uniquely matching a cat, his cat. He put himself there. People saw him there. He was videoed there. Final nail, over and out.

Just for the record, there was no cat hair listed on the search warrant return. They did take his furry-like fiber hat, though = probably not cat hair. IMO

I wonder if either of the families had pets?

one winter gray hat with furlike fibers.
Page 12

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

 

[ClearAhead]

I thought it would be something that would be brought up in the trial as well.

But apparently during Day 3 of the Hearing it actually came out that there was no time of death on the autopsy report and no body temperatures taken on the autopsy report.

An autopsy would unable to determine an exact time of death, but it generally includes an estimated time, possibly between the hours of X and X.

Considering that, if someone wanted to mislead I suppose it is true the autopsy did not include a time of death.

 

[MiniMoo]

SEARCHERS

I know this was touched on before in a previous thread more or less about "why didn't anyone stumble across the girls bodies sooner" and I believe this is when I brought up 15 feet away because to me that seemed quite close.

Fast forward to now I have seen elsewhere that it has been mentioned that some searchers claimed they had searched that particular area where the girls were eventually located and yet saw nothing.

Perhaps this is something that needs to be looked into more thoroughly to find out whether or not it can be confirmed.

 

[justtrish]

I had not seen this article before. Wow!


"Two weeks later, DailyMail.com exclusively revealed that, shortly after Allen's arrest, one of his neighbors saw police digging in his yard to exhume his family's dead cat.

The feline's hair also proved to be a match to samples found on one of the victims."

Haunting new details about Delphi murders are revealed in court

Libby German, 14, and Abby Williams, 13, disappeared on February 13, 2017, while hiking the Monon High Bridge Trail in Delphi, Indiana. Richard Allen, 51, was charged with their murders

www.dailymail.co.uk

I'm sure there's more scientific articles written about the distinct uniqueness of each member of a species DNA, besides humans, the rest of the Animal Kingdom.

If true, that it can be proven RA's pet cat's hair was found on one of the girls, how does that get explained away? Maybe this is the real reason for the 4 FMs, trying to get this cat's DNA thrown out?

"As with human beings, a large number of variations in a relatively short sequence of DNA can make it possible to identify an individual and to distinguish that animal from other members of the species."

Unique Identifiers in Animal DNA (Published 2018)

Genetic fingerprinting can distinguish individuals from one another in many different species — even to identify poached or illegally trafficked animals.

www.nytimes.com

He said the confessions began in late March 2023 after he had a 'come to Jesus moment', and Allen spoke 'very specifically' about details of the crime and why he did it.

The prosecutor also contested her theory that the branches were laid over the bodies to form runic symbols, noting Allen 'said that the branches were there to cover the girls' bodies'.

 

[justtrish]

SEARCHERS

I know this was touched on before in a previous thread more or less about "why didn't anyone stumble across the girls bodies sooner" and I believe this is when I brought up 15 feet away because to me that seemed quite close.

Fast forward to now I have seen elsewhere that it has been mentioned that some searchers claimed they had searched that particular area where the girls were eventually located and yet saw nothing.

Perhaps this is something that needs to be looked into more thoroughly to find out whether or not it can be confirmed 100%.

I will look for photos of the area, but I recall the location they were found was somewhat in a "dip" in the ground.. one side sorta went up and the other down toward the water. I think it's very possible searchers were on the other side of deer creek looking and even with a flashlight, I doubt they'd see the 2 girls laying there partially covered with sticks. I'm sure they were yelling their names and looking for someone injured or something. Even if someone was walking along the higher ground on the other side of the creek, I don't know that they would have seen the girls were they were laying. I'll look for photos I've seen and add them to this post when I find them.

 

[MiniMoo]

I will look for photos of the area, but I recall the location they were found was somewhat in a "dip" in the ground.. one side sorta went up and the other down toward the water. I think it's very possible searchers were on the other side of deer creek looking and even with a flashlight, I doubt they'd see the 2 girls laying there partially covered with sticks. I'm sure they were yelling their names and looking for someone injured or something. Even if someone was walking along the higher ground on the other side of the creek, I don't know that they would have seen the girls were they were laying. I'll look for photos I've seen and add them to this post when I find them.

Thanks. Sometimes visual images sure make a difference.

 

[photographer4]

Unethical behavior, IMO

Maybe. But not a violation of a gag order as so many have asserted. Maybe it’s time to consider whether the gag order itself is ethical considering a man has wasted away in prison, not jail, prison coming up on two years now. mooooo

 

[WildHuncher]

If the bullet recovered from his home was also cycled through the same weapon...

The contention is that RA’s handgun is uniquely able to reproduce the pattern of dents and scratches from the crime scene cartridge upon new similar cartridges fed through it as certified from lab tests. That ties the crime scene round to his Sig Sauer, a circumstance for which RA has no explanation. The D is expected to contest whether the tests done justify that claim of uniqueness.

 

[TTF14]

I thought it would be something that would be brought up in the trial as well.

But apparently during Day 3 of the Hearing it actually came out that there was no time of death on the autopsy report and no body temperatures taken on the autopsy report.

There's been some discussion that autopsy "notes" were mentioned at the hearings and not "report." What the difference is, I'm not sure. Either way, no body temperature taken seems like a grave oversight. Or it just wasn't reported on for some reason.

IMO MOO