Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[sunshineray]

Please please please tell us where we can find proof that RA wishes to plead guilty.

60+ confessions with details and dozens of incriminating statements, sounds like a man who IS pleading guilty. IMO

 

[TTF14]

It's in your signature!

Jerry Holeman testified in his deposition that investigators estimated the time of death as occurring somewhere between 2:30 and 3:30 p.m. (Holeman depo., p. 17, lines 6-21).

<modsnip - baiting>

But, with that said, I do not believe that is iron clad, no. Even if JH said that. He's made conflicting statements (also in the Franks) about how many people were involved. And, he's not a medical examiner. So far we know the ME could not determine the time of death.

We even have another LE officer not committing to it "being over by 3:30." (See link above/quote from TL)

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

BBM

Can you please provide a link where it’s stated the phone had died?

I said IMO MOO. That means In My Opinion and My Opinion Only. No link needed.

IMO

 

[photographer4]

Quite a stench indeed, brought on, IMO, my the ignoring of his wishes to plead guilty, to come clean, to save his soul. AJMO

Do you have a link to where he's expressed a wish to plead guilty to his lawyers??

 

[Salah11]

I said IMO MOO. That means In My Opinion and My Opinion Only. No link needed.

IMO

Ok thanks I wasn’t sure if I had missed something. So there is zero proof her phone battery had died it’s just a assumption

 

[TTF14]

60+ confessions with details and dozens of incriminating statements, sounds like a man who IS pleading guilty. IMO

Well, legally speaking, they aren't the same. And there's no proof at all that he's begging his attorneys to plead guilty and they aren't "letting him." IANAL, but sounds like an accusation of some kind of ethical misconduct, of which there is zero proof.

IMO MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Here's the timeline for "Ricky's" meds. I sure hope there was some psych evaluation before they gave him involuntary injections of psychotropic medication.
(SNIP)
March 23, 2023: Allen was depressed and withdrawn and said he “was not straight in the head."
April 4, 2023: Allen suffered from insomnia, hopelessness, was suicidal, and stated “death would bring relief to him."
April 13, 2023: Allen was exhibiting “bizarre” behavior, including consuming his own feces, and was suffering from a “grave disability.” The prison psychologist ordered Allen receive an involuntary injection of psychotropic medication.
April 21, 2023: Allen’s thoughts were disjointed and he was saying “strange things.” Wala discussed that he might be considered incompetent to stand trial.
May 3, 2023: Allen said he wanted to confess details of the crime.
May 18, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
May 23, 2023: Allen diagnosed as suffering from stress-induced psychosis.
June 8, 2023: Allen’s depression “at its peak,” noted trembling, knees buckling.
June 16, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
Late June, 2023: Allen’s mental health improving.
October 2023: Allen was proclaiming his innocence.
Allen’s defense team claims the confessions fall within the timeframe of Allen’s severe psychosis diagnosed by prison psychologists.

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

Yes I've seen that list before. IIRC some of it was even touched on at the hearings? Surprising with all that supposedly happening with RA that his lawyers didn't consider having him evaluated. MO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I don't interpret any of this as proof that "LE told us they were dead at 3:30." I don't think anyone in LE has ever said that.

IMO MOO

The latest memorandum filed by defense cites the 3:30 time 7 times.
The first citation is about Unified Command believing the timeline of the girls murder was between 2:14-3:30pm on 2/13/17.
The others have to do with LE believing that LG’s phone had remained under LG’s body after 3:30pm and RA not to believed to have returned to the location the bodies were found after 3:30pm

I am sorry I cannot link the document ( my phone is glitchy ) but I know it has been linked several times on the thread since it was filed yesterday.

My opinion is that the evidence points that both girls were dead by 3:30pm.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I think the investigative info is stuff that was formulated early on. I'm sure the first people looked into were known sex offenders and then wherever that led, like to KAK. I think we might just learn that RA was in that section of society. The State seem very confident with their case and the Defense seems very concerned with that search. Can't wait to find out the particulars at trial. MO

We will hear lots more at trial.

I-Team: Allen was charged. The statute that he is charged under, the murder charge, also indicated that he has to have committed another crime, like rape, child molestation or human trafficking. Is charged properly?

Carter: He is, and those questions will be answered in due time, and they certainly should come from the prosecutor and not from me, but eventually when that PC (probable cause affidavit) is released that will be clear.

Indiana police superintendent: Delphi murders' facts will come out at trial

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter, in an interview Thursday with I-Team 8, said his agency is still looking for others involved the Delphi murders. Plus, tips on the case are still coming in, Carter said. Abigail “Abby” Williams and Liberty “Libby” German were...

www.wishtv.com

 

[TTF14]

Ok thanks I wasn’t sure if I had missed something. So there is zero proof her phone battery had died it’s just a assumption

I guess? I didn't say I thought her phone battery died. I think the phone was powered off at some point, and then powered back on by a human being.

IMO MOO

 

[Salah11]

I guess? I didn't say I thought her phone battery died. I think the phone was powered off at some point, and then powered back on by a human being.

IMO MOO

Thanks for the explanation- any ideas why somebody would power it back on?

 

[TTF14]

The latest memorandum filed by defense cites the 3:30 time 7 times.
The first citation is about Unified Command believing the timeline of the girls murder was between 2:14-3:30pm on 2/13/17.
The others have to do with LE believing that LG’s phone had remained under LG’s body after 3:30pm and RA not to believed to have returned to the location the bodies were found after 3:30pm

I am sorry I cannot link the document ( my phone is glitchy ) but I know it has been linked several times on the thread since it was filed yesterday.

My opinion is that the evidence points that both girls were dead by 3:30pm.

OK, thank you. I will admit I'm wrong that LE has "never said that." With all of the other evidence, though, I maintain I don't think that's iron clad and there's a huge possibility it's not correct, in my opinion. There is no established time of death.

Looking forward to the trial to learn exactly why they think that.

This is my opinion.

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

Thanks for the explanation- any ideas why somebody would power it back on?

A mistake in the plan.

IMO MOO

 

[m00c0w]

What if BG looks like RAbr or JM or PW, known Vinlander associates of BH? Personally, I do not see any resemblance between BG and RA. There’s no “=“ for me there. Also, if LG’s phone got powered off 18 minutes after and these poor girls did NOT die at that point in time, BH’s alibi comes into question as well. Just MOO.

For starters, the defense has only claimed that BH and RL look like BG. That, in and of itself is telling. Second, I’m not sure who RAbr is, but the defense is not trying to claim whoever that may be has third party culpability. At least, they are not any longer if they once were.

As far as PW, he’s a foot taller than RA according to MyCase. I don’t see him being mistaken for BG as a 6’4” dude, nor height estimates being off by that much.

The defense does not say that JM had anything to do with the murders, just that he introduced EF to BH.

As far as I understand it, EF has a very distinct accent and the defense has also never claimed he looks like BG.

The defense went to great lengths to show how RA could not have possibly done so much at the crime scene, so I think it would also be self-defeating for them to claim that RL actually did all of the stuff the guy half his age couldn’t theoretically do.

They only say 2 folks look similar to BG. One is deceased, was 70-something and had an alibi. The other, they also concede has an alibi.

They’re starting to paint themselves into a corner.

Mostly my opinions.

 

[sunshineray]

Just for the record, there was no cat hair listed on the search warrant return. They did take his furry-like fiber hat, though = probably not cat hair. IMO

I wonder if either of the families had pets?

one winter gray hat with furlike fibers.
Page 12

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

Maybe the cat hair was found on some of his clothing or other things? Just a thought

 

[Cyber sleuth]

OK, thank you. I will admit I'm wrong that LE has "never said that." With all of the other evidence, though, I maintain I don't think that's iron clad and there's a huge possibility it's not correct, in my opinion. There is no established time of death.

Looking forward to the trial to learn exactly why they think that.

This is my opinion.

IMO MOO

Your opinion is valid. Defense is certainly running with it.
I look forward to seeing the evidence at trial ( or rather hearing about it second hand).
While I wouldn’t be shocked if there isn’t an exact time of death for both girls. I would; however, expect there to be range provided by the medical examiner.
Until then we will continue to guess and comb the motions for morsels that point one way or the other.
JMO

 

[mrjitty]

Maybe RA's family and his two sets of attorneys believe he's innocent because they know where he was at the time of the murders. Maybe he just can't prove it; it doesn't mean he doesn't have an alibi.

doesn’t alibi evidence have to be notified?

i know in some jurisdictions that is the case. maybe someone can confirm.

 

[susiQ]

For starters, the defense has only claimed that BH and RL look like BG. That, in and of itself is telling. Second, I’m not sure who RAbr is, but the defense is not trying to claim whoever that may be has third party culpability. At least, they are not any longer if they once were.

As far as PW, he’s a foot taller than RA according to MyCase. I don’t see him being mistaken for BG as a 6’4” dude, nor height estimates being off by that much.

The defense does not say that JM had anything to do with the murders, just that he introduced EF to BH.

As far as I understand it, EF has a very distinct accent and the defense has also never claimed he looks like BG.

The defense went to great lengths to show how RA could not have possibly done so much at the crime scene, so I think it would also be self-defeating for them to claim that RL actually did all of the stuff the guy half his age couldn’t theoretically do.

They only say 2 folks look similar to BG. One is deceased, was 70-something and had an alibi. The other, they also concede has an alibi.

They’re starting to paint themselves into a corner.

Mostly my opinions.

The defence referenced TH’s statement that JM used her car around that time to visit with his Vinlander friends in Delphi and when he returned what looked like blood was smeared down the side and it took a number of washes to get it off. May mean nothing, may mean something. JMHO
Pg18 FM

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf - ANDREW J. BALDWIN

pdfhost.io

 

[FrostedGlass]

Yes I've seen that list before. IIRC some of it was even touched on at the hearings? Surprising with all that supposedly happening with RA that his lawyers didn't consider having him evaluated. MO

I just posted this a little while ago but I'll gladly do it again. My understanding is they sent him to Westville because that was the prison of choice for medical treatment.

Shocking Details Of Delphi Murders And Suspect’s Health Revealed In Documents

The newly unsealed documents provide insight into what investigators found at the crime scene as well as their interactions with Richard Allen before and after his arrest.

www.huffpost.com

Prosecutors said that they had considered “involuntary medication” to treat Allen’s symptoms, but two psychiatrists and a psychologist had allegedly deemed it unnecessary, and they also felt it wasn’t necessary to move him to another facility with a psychiatric unit.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

For starters, the defense has only claimed that BH and RL look like BG. That, in and of itself is telling. Second, I’m not sure who RAbr is, but the defense is not trying to claim whoever that may be has third party culpability. At least, they are not any longer if they once were.

As far as PW, he’s a foot taller than RA according to MyCase. I don’t see him being mistaken for BG as a 6’4” dude, nor height estimates being off by that much.

The defense does not say that JM had anything to do with the murders, just that he introduced EF to BH.

As far as I understand it, EF has a very distinct accent and the defense has also never claimed he looks like BG.

The defense went to great lengths to show how RA could not have possibly done so much at the crime scene, so I think it would also be self-defeating for them to claim that RL actually did all of the stuff the guy half his age couldn’t theoretically do.

They only say 2 folks look similar to BG. One is deceased, was 70-something and had an alibi. The other, they also concede has an alibi.

They’re starting to paint themselves into a corner.

Mostly my opinions.

BBM
PW and RL- I can never imagine them being described by witnesses as “not tall”. Jmo
EF- really has no ties to Odinism from what I have seen presented. Also per all the defense motions EF’s phone was being used in his home at 7:30pm on the 13th so then if you move the timeline back he now has an alibi.
I just can’t seem to figure out any way this group fit. I am guessing this is the same issue TC and KM had.
All my opinion