Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[TTF14]

TTF - not sure where you are going with this. I gave you MSM quotes and you and I both know LE believes the girls were deceased in mid afternoon. Unsure why you are claiming LE has not said that. So, when do you think the girls were dead? Why do you not believe LE on general time of death?

It's not that I don't "believe LE." I don't think they ever said it. We learned at the hearings there is no time of death in the autopsy notes. The phone powered back on at 4:33 a.m. and 15 texts came flooding in.

If the time of death is NOT in the afternoon, nobody at all has an alibi. That's where I'm going with this.

IMO MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

It's not that I don't "believe LE." I don't think they ever said it. We learned at the hearings there is no time of death in the autopsy notes. The phone powered back on at 4:33 a.m. and 15 texts came flooding in.

If the time of death is NOT in the afternoon, nobody at all has an alibi. That's where I'm going with this.

IMO MOO

I provided MSM above. Best proof I can offer to you.
I can’t prove there was a moon landing either.

jmo

 

[Salah11]

It's not that I don't "believe LE." I don't think they ever said it. We learned at the hearings there is no time of death in the autopsy notes. The phone powered back on at 4:33 a.m. and 15 texts came flooding in.

If the time of death is NOT in the afternoon, nobody at all has an alibi. That's where I'm going with this.

IMO MOO

BBM

Can you please provide a link where it’s stated the phone had died?

 

[sunshineray]

Please please please tell us where we can find proof that RA wishes to plead guilty.

60+ confessions with details and dozens of incriminating statements, sounds like a man who IS pleading guilty. IMO

 

[TTF14]

It's in your signature!

Jerry Holeman testified in his deposition that investigators estimated the time of death as occurring somewhere between 2:30 and 3:30 p.m. (Holeman depo., p. 17, lines 6-21).

Isn't the Franks memo all lies?

But, with that said, I do not believe that is iron clad, no. Even if JH said that. He's made conflicting statements (also in the Franks) about how many people were involved. And, he's not a medical examiner. So far we know the ME could not determine the time of death.

We even have another LE officer not committing to it "being over by 3:30." (See link above/quote from TL)

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

BBM

Can you please provide a link where it’s stated the phone had died?

I said IMO MOO. That means In My Opinion and My Opinion Only. No link needed.

IMO

 

[photographer4]

Quite a stench indeed, brought on, IMO, my the ignoring of his wishes to plead guilty, to come clean, to save his soul. AJMO

Do you have a link to where he's expressed a wish to plead guilty to his lawyers??

 

[sunshineray]

What? I was simply providing a link to the Murder Sheet's YouTube account. What do you mean they are part of the crackpots? Who are the crackpots?

The crackpots, IMO, are the youtubers attached to the Due Process Gang and the youtubers that recieved the discovery from the defense leak and most of the youtubers that recieved the crime scene photos from the defense leak. They would also include the youtubers that had a brouhaha at the courthouse. Of course that is all just my opinion.

 

[Salah11]

I said IMO MOO. That means In My Opinion and My Opinion Only. No link needed.

IMO

Ok thanks I wasn’t sure if I had missed something. So there is zero proof her phone battery had died it’s just a assumption

 

[TTF14]

60+ confessions with details and dozens of incriminating statements, sounds like a man who IS pleading guilty. IMO

Well, legally speaking, they aren't the same. And there's no proof at all that he's begging his attorneys to plead guilty and they aren't "letting him." IANAL, but sounds like an accusation of some kind of ethical misconduct, of which there is zero proof.

IMO MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Here's the timeline for "Ricky's" meds. I sure hope there was some psych evaluation before they gave him involuntary injections of psychotropic medication.
(SNIP)
March 23, 2023: Allen was depressed and withdrawn and said he “was not straight in the head."
April 4, 2023: Allen suffered from insomnia, hopelessness, was suicidal, and stated “death would bring relief to him."
April 13, 2023: Allen was exhibiting “bizarre” behavior, including consuming his own feces, and was suffering from a “grave disability.” The prison psychologist ordered Allen receive an involuntary injection of psychotropic medication.
April 21, 2023: Allen’s thoughts were disjointed and he was saying “strange things.” Wala discussed that he might be considered incompetent to stand trial.
May 3, 2023: Allen said he wanted to confess details of the crime.
May 18, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
May 23, 2023: Allen diagnosed as suffering from stress-induced psychosis.
June 8, 2023: Allen’s depression “at its peak,” noted trembling, knees buckling.
June 16, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
Late June, 2023: Allen’s mental health improving.
October 2023: Allen was proclaiming his innocence.
Allen’s defense team claims the confessions fall within the timeframe of Allen’s severe psychosis diagnosed by prison psychologists.

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

Yes I've seen that list before. IIRC some of it was even touched on at the hearings? Surprising with all that supposedly happening with RA that his lawyers didn't consider having him evaluated. MO

 

[TTF14]

The crackpots, IMO, are the youtubers attached to the Due Process Gang and the youtubers that recieved the discovery from the defense leak and most of the youtubers that recieved the crime scene photos from the defense leak. They would also include the youtubers that had a brouhaha at the courthouse. Of course that is all just my opinion.

Oh ok. I was just confused because I only provided a link, no commentary....and especially no commentary that linked the MS with the "crackpots" as you call them.

IMO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I don't interpret any of this as proof that "LE told us they were dead at 3:30." I don't think anyone in LE has ever said that.

IMO MOO

The latest memorandum filed by defense cites the 3:30 time 7 times.
The first citation is about Unified Command believing the timeline of the girls murder was between 2:14-3:30pm on 2/13/17.
The others have to do with LE believing that LG’s phone had remained under LG’s body after 3:30pm and RA not to believed to have returned to the location the bodies were found after 3:30pm

I am sorry I cannot link the document ( my phone is glitchy ) but I know it has been linked several times on the thread since it was filed yesterday.

My opinion is that the evidence points that both girls were dead by 3:30pm.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I think the investigative info is stuff that was formulated early on. I'm sure the first people looked into were known sex offenders and then wherever that led, like to KAK. I think we might just learn that RA was in that section of society. The State seem very confident with their case and the Defense seems very concerned with that search. Can't wait to find out the particulars at trial. MO

We will hear lots more at trial.

I-Team: Allen was charged. The statute that he is charged under, the murder charge, also indicated that he has to have committed another crime, like rape, child molestation or human trafficking. Is charged properly?

Carter: He is, and those questions will be answered in due time, and they certainly should come from the prosecutor and not from me, but eventually when that PC (probable cause affidavit) is released that will be clear.

Indiana police superintendent: Delphi murders' facts will come out at trial

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter, in an interview Thursday with I-Team 8, said his agency is still looking for others involved the Delphi murders. Plus, tips on the case are still coming in, Carter said. Abigail “Abby” Williams and Liberty “Libby” German were...

www.wishtv.com

 

[TTF14]

Ok thanks I wasn’t sure if I had missed something. So there is zero proof her phone battery had died it’s just a assumption

I guess? I didn't say I thought her phone battery died. I think the phone was powered off at some point, and then powered back on by a human being.

IMO MOO

 

[Salah11]

I guess? I didn't say I thought her phone battery died. I think the phone was powered off at some point, and then powered back on by a human being.

IMO MOO

Thanks for the explanation- any ideas why somebody would power it back on?

 

[TTF14]

The latest memorandum filed by defense cites the 3:30 time 7 times.
The first citation is about Unified Command believing the timeline of the girls murder was between 2:14-3:30pm on 2/13/17.
The others have to do with LE believing that LG’s phone had remained under LG’s body after 3:30pm and RA not to believed to have returned to the location the bodies were found after 3:30pm

I am sorry I cannot link the document ( my phone is glitchy ) but I know it has been linked several times on the thread since it was filed yesterday.

My opinion is that the evidence points that both girls were dead by 3:30pm.

OK, thank you. I will admit I'm wrong that LE has "never said that." With all of the other evidence, though, I maintain I don't think that's iron clad and there's a huge possibility it's not correct, in my opinion. There is no established time of death.

Looking forward to the trial to learn exactly why they think that.

This is my opinion.

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

Thanks for the explanation- any ideas why somebody would power it back on?

A mistake in the plan.

IMO MOO

 

[m00c0w]

What if BG looks like RAbr or JM or PW, known Vinlander associates of BH? Personally, I do not see any resemblance between BG and RA. There’s no “=“ for me there. Also, if LG’s phone got powered off 18 minutes after and these poor girls did NOT die at that point in time, BH’s alibi comes into question as well. Just MOO.

For starters, the defense has only claimed that BH and RL look like BG. That, in and of itself is telling. Second, I’m not sure who RAbr is, but the defense is not trying to claim whoever that may be has third party culpability. At least, they are not any longer if they once were.

As far as PW, he’s a foot taller than RA according to MyCase. I don’t see him being mistaken for BG as a 6’4” dude, nor height estimates being off by that much.

The defense does not say that JM had anything to do with the murders, just that he introduced EF to BH.

As far as I understand it, EF has a very distinct accent and the defense has also never claimed he looks like BG.

The defense went to great lengths to show how RA could not have possibly done so much at the crime scene, so I think it would also be self-defeating for them to claim that RL actually did all of the stuff the guy half his age couldn’t theoretically do.

They only say 2 folks look similar to BG. One is deceased, was 70-something and had an alibi. The other, they also concede has an alibi.

They’re starting to paint themselves into a corner.

Mostly my opinions.

 

[sunshineray]

Just for the record, there was no cat hair listed on the search warrant return. They did take his furry-like fiber hat, though = probably not cat hair. IMO

I wonder if either of the families had pets?

one winter gray hat with furlike fibers.
Page 12

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

Maybe the cat hair was found on some of his clothing or other things? Just a thought