Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[sunshineray]

I still don't understand why he hasn't plead guilty. Has he walked back any of the confessions? If not, what gives?

Two words, IMO...lawyers and family

 

[FrostedGlass]

I still don't understand why he hasn't plead guilty. Has he walked back any of the confessions? If not, what gives?

MOO
We don't know if RA has walked any confessions back but it's reported that he has continued to state his innocence.
(snips)
But Allen also professed his innocence, Harshman said, even after his alleged confessions.

Jail confessions highlight Delphi hearing

DELPHI — Indiana guidelines recommend an inmate can spend up to 30 days in restrictive housing, also known as solitary confinement, before their situation is reevaluated. Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen spent 12 months in solitary confinement during his time at Westville Correctional...

www.yahoo.com

October 2023: Allen was proclaiming his innocence.

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

 

[FromGermany1]

Two words, IMO...lawyers and family

When KA didn't longer want to listen to his confession, she once said, she would call his lawyer and hung up the phone. I have read it here on the thread. So it seems, KA has everything in her hands (maybe like she always had for 25 years??). There is always the one in a marriage, who has the pants on. MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

A reminder of RA's mental illness and confession timeline:

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

A prison psychologist who met regularly with Allen testified that she also heard Allen confess to the murders. But Dr. Monica Wala said Allen’s mental health was “extremely poor, critical and deteriorating,” and that he suffered from stress-induced psychosis at the time he made his confessions.

She also testified there was “no doubt” he had serious mental illness around that time, evidenced by Allen’s attempts to “beat his head into the wall.” According to notes that Wala recorded in Allen’s medical chart:

March 23, 2023: Allen was depressed and withdrawn and said he “was not straight in the head."
April 4, 2023: Allen suffered from insomnia, hopelessness, was suicidal, and stated “death would bring relief to him."
April 13, 2023: Allen was exhibiting “bizarre” behavior, including consuming his own feces, and was suffering from a “grave disability.” The prison psychologist ordered Allen receive an involuntary injection of psychotropic medication.
April 14, 2023: Mental health evaluation 10 am **** See added documentation
April 21, 2023: Allen’s thoughts were disjointed and he was saying “strange things.” Wala discussed that he might be considered incompetent to stand trial.
May 3, 2023: Allen said he wanted to confess details of the crime.
May 18, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
May 23, 2023: Allen diagnosed as suffering from stress-induced psychosis.
June 8, 2023: Allen’s depression “at its peak,” noted trembling, knees buckling.
June 16, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
Late June, 2023: Allen’s mental health improving.
October 2023: Allen was proclaiming his innocence.
Allen’s defense team claims the confessions fall within the timeframe of Allen’s severe psychosis diagnosed by prison psychologists.

Pg 7 States Response to Defense’s Emergency Motion to Modify Safekeeping
**** https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/DelphiDocumentsCombined.pdf

Jail confessions highlight Delphi hearing

DELPHI — Indiana guidelines recommend an inmate can spend up to 30 days in restrictive housing, also known as solitary confinement, before their situation is reevaluated. Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen spent 12 months in solitary confinement during his time at Westville Correctional...

www.yahoo.com

Galipeau also testified he never documented the statements made by Allen, though he’s unsure if any of the inmates monitoring Allen’s cell did.

Wala testified Allen came to the WCF already on suicide watch, and he remained there for approximately a month.
She also added that she visited with Allen — via a crack in his door — on a daily basis during that time.

 

[FrostedGlass]

When KA didn't longer want to listen to his confession, she once said, she would call his lawyer and hung up the phone. I have read it here on the thread. So it seems, KA has everything in her hands (maybe like she always had for 25 years??). There is always the one in a marriage, who has the pants on. MOO

Maybe she saw her husband was in the middle of a mental breakdown and did what many people who love their family member would do? She's the most likely person to advocate for him when he's experiencing serious mental issues.
MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

A reminder of RA's mental illness and confession timeline:

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

A prison psychologist who met regularly with Allen testified that she also heard Allen confess to the murders. But Dr. Monica Wala said Allen’s mental health was “extremely poor, critical and deteriorating,” and that he suffered from stress-induced psychosis at the time he made his confessions.

She also testified there was “no doubt” he had serious mental illness around that time, evidenced by Allen’s attempts to “beat his head into the wall.” According to notes that Wala recorded in Allen’s medical chart:

March 23, 2023: Allen was depressed and withdrawn and said he “was not straight in the head."
April 4, 2023: Allen suffered from insomnia, hopelessness, was suicidal, and stated “death would bring relief to him."
April 13, 2023: Allen was exhibiting “bizarre” behavior, including consuming his own feces, and was suffering from a “grave disability.” The prison psychologist ordered Allen receive an involuntary injection of psychotropic medication.
April 14, 2023: Mental health evaluation 10 am **** See added documentation
April 21, 2023: Allen’s thoughts were disjointed and he was saying “strange things.” Wala discussed that he might be considered incompetent to stand trial.
May 3, 2023: Allen said he wanted to confess details of the crime.
May 18, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
May 23, 2023: Allen diagnosed as suffering from stress-induced psychosis.
June 8, 2023: Allen’s depression “at its peak,” noted trembling, knees buckling.
June 16, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
Late June, 2023: Allen’s mental health improving.
October 2023: Allen was proclaiming his innocence.
Allen’s defense team claims the confessions fall within the timeframe of Allen’s severe psychosis diagnosed by prison psychologists.

Pg 7 States Response to Defense’s Emergency Motion to Modify Safekeeping
**** https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/DelphiDocumentsCombined.pdf

Jail confessions highlight Delphi hearing

DELPHI — Indiana guidelines recommend an inmate can spend up to 30 days in restrictive housing, also known as solitary confinement, before their situation is reevaluated. Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen spent 12 months in solitary confinement during his time at Westville Correctional...

www.yahoo.com

Galipeau also testified he never documented the statements made by Allen, though he’s unsure if any of the inmates monitoring Allen’s cell did.

Wala testified Allen came to the WCF already on suicide watch, and he remained there for approximately a month.
She also added that she visited with Allen — via a crack in his door — on a daily basis during that time.

While reading, my hope is down, that we ever will learn of the girls' true fate .... He will end up in a psychiatric hospital, I think.
When he says, he is innocent, but is confessing x times, that shows also his mental constitution somehow, IMO.

 

[sunshineray]

A reminder of RA's mental illness and confession timeline:

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

A prison psychologist who met regularly with Allen testified that she also heard Allen confess to the murders. But Dr. Monica Wala said Allen’s mental health was “extremely poor, critical and deteriorating,” and that he suffered from stress-induced psychosis at the time he made his confessions.

She also testified there was “no doubt” he had serious mental illness around that time, evidenced by Allen’s attempts to “beat his head into the wall.” According to notes that Wala recorded in Allen’s medical chart:

March 23, 2023: Allen was depressed and withdrawn and said he “was not straight in the head."
April 4, 2023: Allen suffered from insomnia, hopelessness, was suicidal, and stated “death would bring relief to him."
April 13, 2023: Allen was exhibiting “bizarre” behavior, including consuming his own feces, and was suffering from a “grave disability.” The prison psychologist ordered Allen receive an involuntary injection of psychotropic medication.
April 14, 2023: Mental health evaluation 10 am **** See added documentation
April 21, 2023: Allen’s thoughts were disjointed and he was saying “strange things.” Wala discussed that he might be considered incompetent to stand trial.
May 3, 2023: Allen said he wanted to confess details of the crime.
May 18, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
May 23, 2023: Allen diagnosed as suffering from stress-induced psychosis.
June 8, 2023: Allen’s depression “at its peak,” noted trembling, knees buckling.
June 16, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
Late June, 2023: Allen’s mental health improving.
October 2023: Allen was proclaiming his innocence.
Allen’s defense team claims the confessions fall within the timeframe of Allen’s severe psychosis diagnosed by prison psychologists.

Pg 7 States Response to Defense’s Emergency Motion to Modify Safekeeping
**** https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/DelphiDocumentsCombined.pdf

Jail confessions highlight Delphi hearing

DELPHI — Indiana guidelines recommend an inmate can spend up to 30 days in restrictive housing, also known as solitary confinement, before their situation is reevaluated. Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen spent 12 months in solitary confinement during his time at Westville Correctional...

www.yahoo.com

Galipeau also testified he never documented the statements made by Allen, though he’s unsure if any of the inmates monitoring Allen’s cell did.

Wala testified Allen came to the WCF already on suicide watch, and he remained there for approximately a month.
She also added that she visited with Allen — via a crack in his door — on a daily basis during that time.

You missed the part where Dr. Wala mentioned believing RA wasn't being truthful about his poor mental health. That's in there somewhere too.

 

[Salah11]

Maybe she saw her husband was in the middle of a mental breakdown and did what many people who love their family member would do? She's the most likely person to advocate for him when he's experiencing serious mental issues.
MOO

Or maybe she should of actually listened to what her husband was telling her and acted accordingly.

He was confessing to killing children after all and he then continue to confess I believe. It was not a one time deal.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

While reading, my hope is down, that we ever will learn of the girls' true fate .... He will end up in a psychiatric hospital, I think.
When he says, he is innocent, but is confessing x times, that shows also his mental constitution somehow, IMO.

I, too, doubt that we will learn their true fate. Maybe, somewhere within his confessions, there is something that will click.

I think they made a major error when they incarcerated him in Westville and it will come back to bite them.
MOO

 

[SouthEnd]

While reading, my hope is down, that we ever will learn of the girls' true fate .... He will end up in a psychiatric hospital, I think.
When he says, he is innocent, but is confessing x times, that shows also his mental constitution somehow, IMO.

What the MS said in a recent pod, The Delphi Murders: Three Days of Pretrial Hearings: Reflections - and the 3 pretrial episodes - was that from testimony (Dr Wala I believe?) it came out that RA was big on being in control. Thus he refused to eat, because that was the only thing he could control.

I am not a therapist, but as a person that has struggled with all sorts of MH issues, I can see how the breakdowns are connected with the depression/need for control.

If the only positive presence in his life (KA) ultimately rejected him every time he confessed, the only thing he had control over was to stop confessing.

For me, with my personal experience, everything is logical, in the way it connects, in the way the cause and effect flow through the fragmented timeline we have.

All IMO

 

[sunshineray]

A reminder of RA's mental illness and confession timeline:

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

A prison psychologist who met regularly with Allen testified that she also heard Allen confess to the murders. But Dr. Monica Wala said Allen’s mental health was “extremely poor, critical and deteriorating,” and that he suffered from stress-induced psychosis at the time he made his confessions.

She also testified there was “no doubt” he had serious mental illness around that time, evidenced by Allen’s attempts to “beat his head into the wall.” According to notes that Wala recorded in Allen’s medical chart:

March 23, 2023: Allen was depressed and withdrawn and said he “was not straight in the head."
April 4, 2023: Allen suffered from insomnia, hopelessness, was suicidal, and stated “death would bring relief to him."
April 13, 2023: Allen was exhibiting “bizarre” behavior, including consuming his own feces, and was suffering from a “grave disability.” The prison psychologist ordered Allen receive an involuntary injection of psychotropic medication.
April 14, 2023: Mental health evaluation 10 am **** See added documentation
April 21, 2023: Allen’s thoughts were disjointed and he was saying “strange things.” Wala discussed that he might be considered incompetent to stand trial.
May 3, 2023: Allen said he wanted to confess details of the crime.
May 18, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
May 23, 2023: Allen diagnosed as suffering from stress-induced psychosis.
June 8, 2023: Allen’s depression “at its peak,” noted trembling, knees buckling.
June 16, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
Late June, 2023: Allen’s mental health improving.
October 2023: Allen was proclaiming his innocence.
Allen’s defense team claims the confessions fall within the timeframe of Allen’s severe psychosis diagnosed by prison psychologists.

Pg 7 States Response to Defense’s Emergency Motion to Modify Safekeeping
**** https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/DelphiDocumentsCombined.pdf

Jail confessions highlight Delphi hearing

DELPHI — Indiana guidelines recommend an inmate can spend up to 30 days in restrictive housing, also known as solitary confinement, before their situation is reevaluated. Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen spent 12 months in solitary confinement during his time at Westville Correctional...

www.yahoo.com

Galipeau also testified he never documented the statements made by Allen, though he’s unsure if any of the inmates monitoring Allen’s cell did.

Wala testified Allen came to the WCF already on suicide watch, and he remained there for approximately a month.
She also added that she visited with Allen — via a crack in his door — on a daily basis during that time.

You missed the part where Dr. Wala mentioned believing RA wasn't being truthful about his poor mental health. That's in there somewhere too.

Maybe she saw her husband was in the middle of a mental breakdown and did what many people who love their family member would do? She's the most likely person to advocate for him when he's experiencing serious mental issues.
MOO

Except it was also mentioned by Harshman on the stand, when RA asked his family members if he would still be loved by them, if his confessing was true, there was no support given and communications actually broke down between them for a period of time. That's interesting to note. MO

 

[FromGermany1]

What the MS said in a recent pod, The Delphi Murders: Three Days of Pretrial Hearings: Reflections - and the 3 pretrial episodes - was that from testimony (Dr Wala I believe?) it came out that RA was big on being in control. Thus he refused to eat, because that was the only thing he could control.

I am not a therapist, but as a person that has struggled with all sorts of MH issues, I can see how the breakdowns are connected with the depression/need for control.

If the only positive presence in his life (KA) ultimately rejected him every time he confessed, the only thing he had control over was to stop confessing.

For me, with my personal experience, everything is logical, in the way it connects, in the way the cause and effect flow through the fragmented timeline we have.

All IMO

His mind is still working. Remains questionable perhaps, in what number of different directions his mind is active. Only MOO.

 

[sunshineray]

While reading, my hope is down, that we ever will learn of the girls' true fate .... He will end up in a psychiatric hospital, I think.
When he says, he is innocent, but is confessing x times, that shows also his mental constitution somehow, IMO.

Or it shows he wanting to confess for his mental and spiritual health but got no support from his representation or his family to do as he wished. After hearing about Harshman's testimony, it sounded to me like RA was shunned. AJMO

 

[SouthEnd]

May 18, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.

June 16, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.

Snipped by me, for focus.

Do we know what kind of psychotropic medication we are talking about there?

The word 'psychotropic' is powerful. But many substances, from mild anti-depressants like sertraline/fluoxetine, to nicotine (!), to clonazepam/diazepam (basically benzos) belong to that category. If someone is in manic state, breaking items and trying to hurt themselves/the guards, I understand injecting them with some kind of benzo/antipsychotic.

Now, if the proposition is that someone on benzos/antidepressants is more likely to confess? I would argue the opposite. They are most likely to become lethargic, because, sedatives, well. Cause sedation. Less likely to have the energy to, according to Dr Wala, anxiously ask for their therapist to call their family, and stay while they confess, IMO. Lithium, for example, is more likely to give you hard to understand, slurred speech than make you vulnerable to suggestions.

Again, it all depends on what type of psychotropic medication we are talking about, but IMO the most likely meds would not have been a contributing factor to the confessions. This is a list of common side effects for every psychotropic drug: https://www.hhs.texas.gov/sites/def...Psychotropic-Medications-and-Side-Effects.pdf

 

[FromGermany1]

O/T
I would like to know, if the gruesome murder of Lizzy and Lyric (Iowa) will be solved someday.

 

[FromGermany1]

Or maybe she should of actually listened to what her husband was telling her and acted accordingly.

He was confessing to killing children after all and he then continue to confess I believe. It was not a one time deal.

MOO

Does she want him back home, acquitted of all charges, given how unpredictable he is? I wouldn't, I think.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

MOO
We don't know if RA has walked any confessions back but it's reported that he has continued to state his innocence.
(snips)
But Allen also professed his innocence, Harshman said, even after his alleged confessions.

Jail confessions highlight Delphi hearing

DELPHI — Indiana guidelines recommend an inmate can spend up to 30 days in restrictive housing, also known as solitary confinement, before their situation is reevaluated. Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen spent 12 months in solitary confinement during his time at Westville Correctional...

www.yahoo.com

October 2023: Allen was proclaiming his innocence.

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

Thank you for this information. What a terribly confusing case. moo

 

[steeltowngirl]

I still don't understand why he hasn't plead guilty. Has he walked back any of the confessions? If not, what gives?

A guilty plea doesn’t buy him anything. He still goes to prison for life. His defense is rolling the dice. He could still go with an insanity plea, but it’s an affirmative defense in Indiana. The burden would be on RA’s defense team to prove he was mentally ill at the time of the crime.

2023 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 41. Substantive Criminal Provisions :: Chapter 4. Standard of Proof and Bars to Prosecution :: 35-41-4-1. Standard of Proof; Insanity Defense

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

jmo

 

[FrostedGlass]

Snipped by me, for focus.

Do we know what kind of psychotropic medication we are talking about there?

The word 'psychotropic' is powerful. But many substances, from mild anti-depressants like sertraline/fluoxetine, to nicotine (!), to clonazepam/diazepam (basically benzos) belong to that category. If someone is in manic state, breaking items and trying to hurt themselves/the guards, I understand injecting them with some kind of benzo/antipsychotic.

Now, if the proposition is that someone on benzos/antidepressants is more likely to confess? I would argue the opposite. They are most likely to become lethargic, because, sedatives, well. Cause sedation. Less likely to have the energy to, according to Dr Wala, anxiously ask for their therapist to call their family, and stay while they confess, IMO. Lithium, for example, is more likely to give you hard to understand, slurred speech than make you vulnerable to suggestions.

Again, it all depends on what type of psychotropic medication we are talking about, but IMO the most likely meds would not have been a contributing factor to the confessions. This is a list of common side effects for every psychotropic drug: https://www.hhs.texas.gov/sites/def...Psychotropic-Medications-and-Side-Effects.pdf

I really appreciate you sharing your experience with mental illness. I'm sorry you and others who have had to deal with it.

What type of drug? I don't have that info at my fingertips but I believe it has been mentioned.
I think it's possible that he was given more than one type of drug so I'm not totally discounting side effects. My experience with mental health drugs is 0; but I have suffered a range of side effects from prescribed drugs that range from common to rare.

IMO, it's possible RA's mental health problems were brought on by his solitary confinement and his confessions were a result of his mental break. It's too bad his attys didn't have drug testing done on him to see what was in his system for all those months.

IMO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

A reminder of RA's mental illness and confession timeline:

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

A prison psychologist who met regularly with Allen testified that she also heard Allen confess to the murders. But Dr. Monica Wala said Allen’s mental health was “extremely poor, critical and deteriorating,” and that he suffered from stress-induced psychosis at the time he made his confessions.

She also testified there was “no doubt” he had serious mental illness around that time, evidenced by Allen’s attempts to “beat his head into the wall.” According to notes that Wala recorded in Allen’s medical chart:

March 23, 2023: Allen was depressed and withdrawn and said he “was not straight in the head."
April 4, 2023: Allen suffered from insomnia, hopelessness, was suicidal, and stated “death would bring relief to him."
April 13, 2023: Allen was exhibiting “bizarre” behavior, including consuming his own feces, and was suffering from a “grave disability.” The prison psychologist ordered Allen receive an involuntary injection of psychotropic medication.
April 14, 2023: Mental health evaluation 10 am **** See added documentation
April 21, 2023: Allen’s thoughts were disjointed and he was saying “strange things.” Wala discussed that he might be considered incompetent to stand trial.
May 3, 2023: Allen said he wanted to confess details of the crime.
May 18, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
May 23, 2023: Allen diagnosed as suffering from stress-induced psychosis.
June 8, 2023: Allen’s depression “at its peak,” noted trembling, knees buckling.
June 16, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
Late June, 2023: Allen’s mental health improving.
October 2023: Allen was proclaiming his innocence.
Allen’s defense team claims the confessions fall within the timeframe of Allen’s severe psychosis diagnosed by prison psychologists.

Pg 7 States Response to Defense’s Emergency Motion to Modify Safekeeping
**** https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/DelphiDocumentsCombined.pdf

Jail confessions highlight Delphi hearing

DELPHI — Indiana guidelines recommend an inmate can spend up to 30 days in restrictive housing, also known as solitary confinement, before their situation is reevaluated. Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen spent 12 months in solitary confinement during his time at Westville Correctional...

www.yahoo.com

Galipeau also testified he never documented the statements made by Allen, though he’s unsure if any of the inmates monitoring Allen’s cell did.

Wala testified Allen came to the WCF already on suicide watch, and he remained there for approximately a month.
She also added that she visited with Allen — via a crack in his door — on a daily basis during that time.

This was presented in a motion or several motions by the defense and nothing came of it? Or is the motion pending? What an absolute disaster! During the time he made these 60+ confessions, he was eating his feces and receiving injected psychotropics, AND the psychologist's request to move him to a different facility was denied?! What is going on in Indiana??