Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[Salah11]

This was presented in a motion or several motions by the defense and nothing came of it? Or is the motion pending? What an absolute disaster! During the time he made these 60+ confessions, he was eating his feces and receiving injected psychotropics, AND the psychologist's request to move him to a different facility was denied?! What is going on in Indiana??

I wonder how much was playing acting to get away from the million of confessions. Hopefully we will hear at the trail if he had been in contact with his lawyers before these manic episodes started.

MOO

 

[SouthEnd]

And there's no DP in Indiana, right? Or am I mistaken?

There absolutely is DP in Indiana.

I have a lot of conflicting opinions about DP. The one thing I will say, from a cold, hard logic POV: It offers the Prosecution something to bargain with. If the DP is off the table, then people accused of heinous crimes, like RA, have no reason no to go to trial. There is very little the State could offer in a plea bargain that would not scandalise the families, with good reason.

The only motivation RA would have to plea would be to not put his family through the trial, but his family seems well up for it.

All IMO.

 

[SouthEnd]

I wonder how much was playing acting to get away from the million of confessions. Hopefully we will hear at the trail if he had been in contact with his lawyers before these manic episodes started.

MOO

My personal opinion is that it was not play acting to get away from the confessions.

My opinion is that this was the lashing out of a man who has struggled with control all his life, when faced with the consequences of his actions and when all control has been stripped away from him. Even the confessions, IMO, could be interpreted as him still being able to control something (even if that is just where he goes in the afterlife).

Lashing out, malingering, or having a psychotic break - they could all happen whether guilty or innocent. I don't think that his behaviour in Westfield bares too much weight when it comes to guilt/innocence. There are behaviours that can belie forced confessions; IMO throwing tantrums is not a mark of such behaviours.

 

[steeltowngirl]

And there's no DP in Indiana, right? Or am I mistaken?

There is a death penalty statute in Indiana. AFAIK, the state is not seeking the death penalty in the Delphi murder case.

https://fox59.com/news/the-death-penalty-inside-indianas-complicated-history-with-capital-punishment/

 

[katydid23]

Snipped by me, for focus.

Do we know what kind of psychotropic medication we are talking about there?

The word 'psychotropic' is powerful. But many substances, from mild anti-depressants like sertraline/fluoxetine, to nicotine (!), to clonazepam/diazepam (basically benzos) belong to that category. If someone is in manic state, breaking items and trying to hurt themselves/the guards, I understand injecting them with some kind of benzo/antipsychotic.

Now, if the proposition is that someone on benzos/antidepressants is more likely to confess? I would argue the opposite. They are most likely to become lethargic, because, sedatives, well. Cause sedation. Less likely to have the energy to, according to Dr Wala, anxiously ask for their therapist to call their family, and stay while they confess, IMO. Lithium, for example, is more likely to give you hard to understand, slurred speech than make you vulnerable to suggestions.

Again, it all depends on what type of psychotropic medication we are talking about, but IMO the most likely meds would not have been a contributing factor to the confessions. This is a list of common side effects for every psychotropic drug: https://www.hhs.texas.gov/sites/def...Psychotropic-Medications-and-Side-Effects.pdf

IIRC, Dr Wala said it was Haldol.

What is Haldol mainly used for?


Haloperidol treats schizophrenia and manages tics and vocal outbursts if you're diagnosed with Tourette's syndrome. It can also treat behavioral issues among children. This medication comes in a tablet form that you can take by mouth with a glass of water as directed. The brand name of haloperidol is Haldol®.

Haloperidol (Haldol): Uses & Side Effects - Cleveland Clinic​

 

[statt#1]

Imagine....if the psychotic episodes.....were the direct result of RA's conscience rising to the surface.....revealing to him exactly what he had done to those two girls. The reality of what he had done, the come to Jesus moment, the thoughts of eternity, the confessions, the confusion of his loved one's responses, the psychotic episodes.....were they all not in the same general time frame?

 

[katydid23]

My personal opinion is that it was not play acting to get away from the confessions.

My opinion is that this was the lashing out of a man who has struggled with control all his life, when faced with the consequences of his actions and when all control has been stripped away from him. Even the confessions, IMO, could be interpreted as him still being able to control something (even if that is just where he goes in the afterlife).

Lashing out, malingering, or having a psychotic break - they could all happen whether guilty or innocent. I don't think that his behaviour in Westfield bares too much weight when it comes to guilt/innocence. There are behaviours that can belie forced confessions; IMO throwing tantrums is not a mark of such behaviours.

Here is an interesting article about his tantrums:

Allen’s alleged confession to his wife​

Probably the biggest bombshell dropped in the documents was a jailhouse phone call between Allen and his wife, Kathy, on April 3 of this year. In the call, authorities said he admitted “several times” to kidnapping and killing Abby and Libby. What’s more, Kathy hung up on her husband — “abruptly ends the phone call” is the phrasing used in an April 20 motion by prosecutors.

Allen’s steep decline after the call​

Allen has not talked to his wife since Kathy hung up on him. In fact, authorities said he hasn’t made a single call, despite previously placing calls around twice a day since he was arrested. In the days after April 3, he refused to eat and sleep, and he destroyed the tablet he was given to send emails, listen to music and make phone calls, according to the prison warden. (It’s not clear whether these are the same as the “public jail phones” authorities said he used in the calls in which he allegedly confessed to Kathy and his mother.)

Shocking Details Of Delphi Murders And Suspect’s Health Revealed In Documents

The newly unsealed documents provide insight into what investigators found at the crime scene as well as their interactions with Richard Allen before and after his arrest.

www.huffpost.com

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/heal...hrenia and manages,of haloperidol is Haldol®.

 

[FrostedGlass]

This was presented in a motion or several motions by the defense and nothing came of it? Or is the motion pending? What an absolute disaster! During the time he made these 60+ confessions, he was eating his feces and receiving injected psychotropics, AND the psychologist's request to move him to a different facility was denied?! What is going on in Indiana??

The defense tried to get him out of Westville but the judge denied those motions, only finally changing her mine recently. Those are shown in the record.

I don't know why they denied the psychologists request.

Indiana isn't always this bad but most cases don't get near the attention that this one has so I have no idea about other cases. Except for one where this man was placed in jail while suffering a mental break, condition deteriorated and ended up losing his life. Joshua Mclemore's case is here; I followed it.

MOO

 

[m00c0w]

The state is the only one who needs a strong case. They alone have the burden of proof.

While technically true, RA put himself very near the scene of the crime in BG’s clothes. Witnesses corroborated this. Defense has to dig themselves out of a hole, and to do that they need a convincing theory of why the state’s case (and RA tipping himself in) are wrong. If the defense is still trying to deflect to Odinists, they 100% have their own burdens they must meet in order to introduce third party culpability at trial.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

I am amazed that claimed it was F to begin with. Its also not painted or would be a lot clearer to see.

Unfortunately wild speculation by counsel is all too common these days.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

While technically true, RA put himself very near the scene of the crime in BG’s clothes. Witnesses corroborated this. Defense has to dig themselves out of a hole, and to do that they need a convincing theory of why the state’s case (and RA tipping himself in) are wrong. If the defense is still trying to deflect to Odinists, they 100% have their own burdens they must meet in order to introduce third party culpability at trial.

MOO

Agreed - they need at least an evidential foundation they can point to IMO

Otherwise it's just "testimony by counsel".

MOO

 

[Willow Knight]

I guess if there were an Odin he wouldn’t be too pleased to have such illiterate followers. Can’t even write the alphabet.

Wonder if Odin read the Brief, curious how he would feel knowing the EXPERTS gave him Thor's Hammer?!?

 

[SouthEnd]

IIRC, Dr Wala said it was Haldol.

What is Haldol mainly used for?


Haloperidol treats schizophrenia and manages tics and vocal outbursts if you're diagnosed with Tourette's syndrome. It can also treat behavioral issues among children. This medication comes in a tablet form that you can take by mouth with a glass of water as directed. The brand name of haloperidol is Haldol®.

Haloperidol (Haldol): Uses & Side Effects - Cleveland Clinic​

View attachment 525960

Thank you so much for this! It seems to be a Dopamine receptor blocking anti-psychotic.

Haloperidol - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

Haloperidol, a first-generation typical antipsychotic, is commonly used worldwide to block dopamine D2 receptors in the brain and exert its antipsychotic action. The medication is used to manage the positive symptoms of schizophrenia, including hallucinations and delusions. Haloperidol has...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It would be fantastic if we had any medical professionals to give us any more information, like does it make the patient more susceptible to suggestions, but IMO, having NO hands-on experience with anti-psychotics in particular, I would doubt that.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I don't think his lawyers will let him sign a plea agreement where his sentence can't be appealed. And as fas as RA's not wanting his family members from hearing the gory details of what he did to the girls, they could probably just leace tge courtroom, like they did at the hearings when Cisero took the stand. MO

Which I thought was a total cop out. If RA is 'your person' and you are supporting him, listen to all of the testimony. IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

While reading, my hope is down, that we ever will learn of the girls' true fate .... He will end up in a psychiatric hospital, I think.
When he says, he is innocent, but is confessing x times, that shows also his mental constitution somehow, IMO.

RA was functioning at a normal level in Feb 2017 by all indications, steady employment, financially solid (paid for home), able to travel, participated in socializing down at the local pub for pool tournaments. He will be tried on his actions of Feb 13th 2017, not today.

I believe his psychosis was in part the reality of seeing in black and white exactly what the State's case had on him, the fear of abandonment by his wife, mother, family, public finding out HE is BG after all the years of hiding in plain sight and in part theatrics in order to bolster his current claim of mental duress.

Wolf in sheep's clothing.

JMO

 

[susiQ]

I, too, doubt that we will learn their true fate. Maybe, somewhere within his confessions, there is something that will click.

I think they made a major error when they incarcerated him in Westville and it will come back to bite them.
MOO

I sure hope it comes back to “bite them” in the hind quarters. What they did to him was unconstitutional and detrimental to his mental health as we have read. And even when in conversation with Wala, she was only allowed to see him through a small crack in his door. In her early days of working with him, how on earth could she evaluate his mental state properly. Yes, she did state that in the beginning she considered he “may” be faking mental illness, but how could she tell?? She could barely see him!!

I am not at all surprised that he confessed 61 + times. Maybe in his very broken down mind the torture would stop. Very interesting that Galipeau did not find it worthwhile to document the statements RA made. Why the heck not? Were they so “off the wall” that anyone would realize he was in full psychosis? Did he say things that didn’t line up with knowledge of the CS?? People often distort the truth by leaving half of what was said out. And to top it off, there’s no audio of exactly what Galipeau said to RA.

The confessions will likely not get thrown out, but neither will the treatment RA received prior to making said “confessions.”

All MOO.

 

[susiQ]

Well, they appeared to be living together in harmony for 5 1/2 years despite his struggle with depression. You don’t toss a lifetime partnership because your spouse suffers from depression that by all accounts he sought medical help for. She continues to support him through this nightmare. JMHO

 

[susiQ]

Imagine....if the psychotic episodes.....were the direct result of RA's conscience rising to the surface.....revealing to him exactly what he had done to those two girls. The reality of what he had done, the come to Jesus moment, the thoughts of eternity, the confessions, the confusion of his loved one's responses, the psychotic episodes.....were they all not in the same general time frame?

Imagine the psychotic episodes were the result of solitary confinement for months on end and tasing. Imagine in his broken mind he thought, “if I confess, they’ll stop doing this to me, the pain will stop.” Then imagine, if you can, he’s innocent of this brutal crime. JMHO

 

[Salah11]

Imagine the psychotic episodes were the result of solitary confinement for months on end and tasing. Imagine in his broken mind he thought, “if I confess, they’ll stop doing this to me, the pain will stop.” Then imagine, if you can, he’s innocent of this brutal crime. JMHO

Yes of course “innocent”

He just happened to be dressed as the killer and on the bridge at the same time as the killer. That would be absolutely remarkable if true.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

RA was functioning at a normal level in Feb 2017 by all indications, steady employment, financially solid (paid for home), able to travel, participated in socializing down at the local pub for pool tournaments. He will be tried on his actions of Feb 13th 2017, not today.

I believe his psychosis was in part the reality of seeing in black and white exactly what the State's case had on him, the fear of abandonment by his wife, mother, family, public finding out HE is BG after all the years of hiding in plain sight and in part theatrics in order to bolster his current claim of mental duress.

Wolf in sheep's clothing.

JMO

Agree to all this.

The fact that RA continued to confess after he was as back to acting normal makes me believe that his confessions are truthful and not induced by drugs. IMO
According to Harshman he continued to confess after his transfer to Wabash in January of this year.
I wonder if he has confessed since being at his new jail?
Detective testifies Richard Allen confessed more than 60 times to Delphi murders
All my opinion