Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[Salah11]

Hopefully in a few months this will be all over and the Germans and Williams will be able to move on to the next stage of their lives without this evil man lurking over their shoulder.

 

[photographer4]

Snipped by me, for focus.

Do we know what kind of psychotropic medication we are talking about there?

The word 'psychotropic' is powerful. But many substances, from mild anti-depressants like sertraline/fluoxetine, to nicotine (!), to clonazepam/diazepam (basically benzos) belong to that category. If someone is in manic state, breaking items and trying to hurt themselves/the guards, I understand injecting them with some kind of benzo/antipsychotic.

Now, if the proposition is that someone on benzos/antidepressants is more likely to confess? I would argue the opposite. They are most likely to become lethargic, because, sedatives, well. Cause sedation. Less likely to have the energy to, according to Dr Wala, anxiously ask for their therapist to call their family, and stay while they confess, IMO. Lithium, for example, is more likely to give you hard to understand, slurred speech than make you vulnerable to suggestions.

Again, it all depends on what type of psychotropic medication we are talking about, but IMO the most likely meds would not have been a contributing factor to the confessions. This is a list of common side effects for every psychotropic drug: https://www.hhs.texas.gov/sites/def...Psychotropic-Medications-and-Side-Effects.pdf

Could he have had a paradoxical effect if he was on benzos?

 

[Curious38]

Well, he's innocent until proven guilty BARD.

Funny thing is, there's a lot of people out there who focus on the above line, yet never query/question a single thing the Defence has put out there --- just accept what the Defence has to say at face value 10 000% (the now-debunked by testimony under oath Frank's One anybody?). Nary a peep of questionning about any single one of the Defence's bits that don't fit the testified to facts we've learned thus far from the State (blood spatter, hanging, etc etc). That's not being "impartial" either IMO. And, IMO some of them have obviously already decided that RA is not guilty under any circumstance and despite any evidence that will come out at trial (because - to be clear - the State's evidence is still under seal for the most part).

Impartial jurors do swear that they are and can remain impartial until they've heard all the testimony and seen all of the evidence. Those impartial jurors will then see, hear and view the evidence in this trial. All of the evidence. They will question/consider what evidence the state brings forth and it will also query/consider what the defence brings forth. Then it will weigh them. Then it will render it's verdict as to their belief.

IMO, if impartial jurors need to rely on believing conspiracy theories and that every person who testifies (and had testified in hearings) under oath is a perjuror and liar who've been complicit since 2017 in setting up a man to take a fall for a murder he didn't commit at his trial years later to counter every single piece of physical, forensic, video and eye witness evidence, they may just find that unreasonable.

Again, some of that evidence was recovered at the crime scene in 2017 (bullet, RAs original statement etc) ... just why in heck would they wait years to finally arrest and try the guy they apparently have been conspiring to set up since 2017.

Why do you think they waited?

 

[tlcya]

Why do you think they waited?

not the OP but - human error is my guess.

 

[sunshineray]

Wala cannot testify to it for obvious reasons but I do wonder if some of their chats involved RA confessing to her or elaborating upon confessions he made to others and whether any details divulged aligned with the facts of the case.

I believe she can testify to what she heard, there's a statute of law that allows her to do that? Hasn't this been discussed here in detail?

 

[tlcya]

I believe she can testify to what she heard, there's a statute of law that allows her to do that? Hasn't this been discussed here in detail?

I have no idea if that is true or not. I was not present for those discussions.

There was a time period of several months that I bowed out of participating in this thread as the endless debate of whether Gull should recuse herself or be removed from the case raged on.

I have no wish to research the topic but assumed because of patient confidentiality she couldn't disclose the exact nature of their conversations unless someone was in imminent danger based on the content thereof.

That is my assumption only.

 

[sunshineray]

I have no idea if that is true or not. I was not present for those discussions.

There was a time period of several months that I bowed out of participating in this thread as the endless debate of whether Gull should recuse herself or be removed from the case raged on.

I have no wish to research the topic but assumed because of patient confidentiality she couldn't disclose the exact nature of their conversations unless someone was in imminent danger based on the content thereof.

That is my assumption only.

"The filing cites a law with a specific exception to that rule: “A psychologist licensed under this article may not disclose any information acquired from persons with whom the psychologist has dealt in a professional capacity, except under the following circumstances: Trials for homicide when the disclosure relates directly to the fact or immediate circumstances of said homicide.”

Prosecution in Delphi murders case asks to admit statements made to psychologist

Richard Allen was arrested in 2022 for the February 2017 murders of 13-year-old Abigail Williams and 14-year-old Liberty German.

wishtv.com

State's motion was granted for her records of RA.

Order Issued

State of Indiana's Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records (mental health records) filed March 14, 2024 granted without hearing. State of Indiana's Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records (medical records) filed March 14, 2024, granted without hearing.

Judicial Officer:
Gull, Frances -SJ

Order Signed:
04/02/2024

 

[tlcya]

"The filing cites a law with a specific exception to that rule: “A psychologist licensed under this article may not disclose any information acquired from persons with whom the psychologist has dealt in a professional capacity, except under the following circumstances: Trials for homicide when the disclosure relates directly to the fact or immediate circumstances of said homicide.”

Prosecution in Delphi murders case asks to admit statements made to psychologist

Richard Allen was arrested in 2022 for the February 2017 murders of 13-year-old Abigail Williams and 14-year-old Liberty German.

wishtv.com

State's motion was granted for her records of RA.

Order Issued

State of Indiana's Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records (mental health records) filed March 14, 2024 granted without hearing. State of Indiana's Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records (medical records) filed March 14, 2024, granted without hearing.

Judicial Officer:
Gull, Frances -SJ

Order Signed:
04/02/2024

interesting, thank you for that. So we may yet know exactly what RA has had to say to Wala about the crime.

 

[photographer4]

Hopefully in a few months this will be all over and the Germans and Williams will be able to move on to the next stage of their lives without this evil man lurking over their shoulder.

I'm afraid that even if RA is convicted, they'll never really get on with their lives. There is a huge part of their lives missing. HUGE. Irreplaceable! No way they'll ever just move on imo. Besides which, I imagine RA is going to have an appeals process yet to come...

 

[snarast]

Could he have had a paradoxical effect if he was on benzos?

Most Antidepressants are not sedatives - in fact they can trigger manic episodes in some individuals.

And benzos can give paradoxical effects of extreme agitation, particularly as the level of benzos exit the system.

 

[Salah11]

I'm afraid that even if RA is convicted, they'll never really get on with their lives. There is a huge part of their lives missing. HUGE. Irreplaceable! No way they'll ever just move on imo. Besides which, I imagine RA is going to have an appeals process yet to come...

Yes but having the man responsible for their deaths guilty and locked away will lift a heavy burden.

It’s a process and this would be the next phase.
IMO

 

[photographer4]

Most Antidepressants are not sedatives - in fact they can trigger manic episodes in some individuals.

And benzos can give paradoxical effects of extreme agitation, particularly as the level of benzos exit the system.

Some antidepressants can actually make one suicidal. They can do all sorts of horrible things to people....

https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/drugs-and-treatments/antidepressants/side-effects-of-antidepressants/

 

[Vern]

Why do you think they waited?

I don't think they "waited" at all (it is the Defence side alledging cover ups & collusion since the murders in 2017 to frame up RA). I'm saying, in what world does it make sense for the State to plant evidence at the scene in 2017 (RA's bullet ... and his own statement) and then collude and conspire for years to arrest RA for the crime. It simply does not. They'd have arrested him years ago ...

I think that as soon as LE was able to find that self-tip-in from RA to the Conservation Officer right after the murders, the details on time, place and dress he provided matched up with video and witness statements. Then they pull him in for an interview, he and KA confirm he has guns and knives at home AND his story now suspiciously changed (timings) to place him away from the bridge at the time he previously stated he was there and as witnessed. That's probable cause.

 

[photographer4]

Yes but having the man responsible for their deaths guilty and locked away will lift a heavy burden.

It’s a process and this would be the next phase.
IMO

I do not belief it will lift any real burden for them. Especially if he appeals. Or if they eventually find out wrong man convicted for it. It may all just serve to keep everything at the forefront of their already heavy hearts and may make it harder to deal with. Hard to know. I'm not them. No links as all just my opinions...

 

[TTF14]

Yes but having the man responsible for their deaths guilty and locked away will lift a heavy burden.

It’s a process and this would be the next phase.
IMO

Until more are arrested and the cycle starts all over again.

As this is my opinion (that more are involved), I have no link.

MOOOOOO

 

[Salah11]

I do not belief it will lift any real burden for them. Especially if he appeals. Or if they eventually find out wrong man convicted for it. It may all just serve to keep everything at the forefront of their already heavy hearts and may make it harder to deal with. Hard to know. I'm not them. No links as all just my opinions...

He is quite clearly the guilty man. He was dressed like the killer and on the bridge moments before the girls crossed.

I am positive he will be found guilty in October if the Defense don’t play more games and get it delayed again.

IMO

 

[Salah11]

Until more are arrested and the cycle starts all over again.

As this is my opinion (that more are involved), I have no link.

MOOOOOO

I don’t believe anybody else will be arrested as he has made loads of confessions and it doesn’t seem like he has blamed anybody else. He seems to take sole responsibility for his actions as far as im aware.

IMO