Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #194

[mrjitty]

Here are the filings; I thought she would decide on all of the older motions on Aug. 23?
They filed this on the 13th:
Defendant's Supplemental Submission Regarding State's Motion in Limine
and this on the 15th:
Memorandum of Law in Support of Admission of Evidence of Alternative Theories of the Crime

Snipped for focus

Yes - so what I am saying is, the hearing went long, and as I understand it, they didn't get time to make their closing arguments as to the evidence produced in the hearing, and the law thereto

So for all I know, the Judge therefore gave them a couple of weekz to file the memo of law in support, which summarises their case for why they should succeed. At least that is what some on here argued - perhaps correctly.

So my uneducated guess, is that the timer starts from that filing on the 15th.

Is the prosecution being given 2 weeks to respond to that? I have no idea.

MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

BH has an alibi.

What is RA's alibi besides placing himself on the trails from 1:30 to 3:30 p.m. according to DD's report?

Edited: I was mistaken about the time of the last movement of Libby's phone. It wasn't around 3:30 p.m. it was actually around 2:40 p.m.

I apologize guys. It was a mistake. I don't want to state anything but the truth.

We’ve heard nothing from defense about RA’s alibi. I haven’t even heard them say he’s not the man in the bridge photo.

Instead, they continue to investigate POI’s who were ruled out. Try to move the timeline.

It is confounding. Why not say where RA was, what he was doing, if he saw or talked to anyone while he was elsewhere during the murders. I’ve heard here that perhaps he has no proof of an alibi. Ok. How about they just say that?

They don’t, because they can’t.
RA was on the bridge, and that is his photo.

jmo

 

[steeltowngirl]

yes, if asked to SPECULATE as to the route RA may have used to direct the girls to where they were found, I would point to that sandbar as a convenient way to cross the creek without getting wet.

I recall when this case first broke, within 24 hours of the girls being found many members were mapping the area and discussed that sandbar and what it looked like at that time and whether it may have been used to get across the creek.

Yep. Post from 2/16/17, thread #1, discussing the sandbar.

Post in thread 'IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 13, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #1'
IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 13, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #1

 

[TTF14]

The area of the creek by where the girls were found fifty feet or so inland had a very noticable sandbar area. I said it was my opinion, MO

bbm

Well, you didn't. But thanks for clarifying now that it's your opinion and not a fact.

LE has never uttered the word sandbar that I have heard in relation to this case.

IMO MOO

 

[Megnut]

If the F on the tree isn't an F or an upside down L and it's actually a remnant of Libby collapsing into that tree (or connecting with it in some way), then the whole Odinism connection falls apart.

There's no missing blood.

There's branches. Partially covering their bodies.

If someone were to try to hide bodies in a wooded area, it's what you'd use.

So what's left standing to perpetuate this Odinite storyline?

That LE investigated it? You'd hope they would and indeed they did.

That LE could have continued to investigate it? On what grounds?

That the Defense found someone/anyone to ascribe ritual values to a wooded crime scene? I'm guessing they hired her to interpret a crime scene photo as a ritualistic event and that's what she did. Without benefit of context, forensics, technology (for example, the technology that aided the blood spatter expert in his assessment of the blood on the tree).

Without the F/7/L, there is no Odinistic crime scene.

You're left with RA on the bridge. You have someone who used what was on hand to cover up a crime scene.

Occam.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

bbm

Well, you didn't. But thanks for clarifying now that it's your opinion and not a fact.

LE has never uttered the word sandbar that I have heard in relation to this case.

IMO MOO

Sorry, I missed that one. I'm curious, what is the defense saying the path from the bridge to the crime scene was? Have they said, in the FMs?

 

[tlcya]

If the F on the tree isn't an F or an upside down L and it's actually a remnant of Libby collapsing into that tree (or connecting with it in some way), then the whole Odinism connection falls apart.

There's no missing blood.

There's branches. Partially covering their bodies.

If someone were to try to hide bodies in a wooded area, it's what you'd use.

So what's left standing to perpetuate this Odinite storyline?

That LE investigated it? You'd hope they would and indeed they did.

That LE could have continued to investigate it? On what grounds?

That the Defense found someone/anyone to ascribe ritual values to a wooded crime scene? I'm guessing they hired her to interpret a crime scene photo as a ritualistic event and that's what she did. Without benefit of context, forensics, technology (for example, the technology that aided the blood spatter expert in his assessment of the blood on the tree).

Without the F/7/L, there is no Odinistic crime scene.

You're left with RA on the bridge. You have someone who used what was on hand to cover up a crime scene.

Occam.

JMO

Indeed KISS principal.

 

[TTF14]

Sorry, I missed that one. I'm curious, what is the defense saying the path from the bridge to the crime scene was? Have they said, in the FMs?

No. Why would they? Their job is to defend their client, not solve the case.

IMO MOO

 

[sunshineray]

If the F on the tree isn't an F or an upside down L and it's actually a remnant of Libby collapsing into that tree (or connecting with it in some way), then the whole Odinism connection falls apart.

There's no missing blood.

There's branches. Partially covering their bodies.

If someone were to try to hide bodies in a wooded area, it's what you'd use.

So what's left standing to perpetuate this Odinite storyline?

That LE investigated it? You'd hope they would and indeed they did.

That LE could have continued to investigate it? On what grounds?

That the Defense found someone/anyone to ascribe ritual values to a wooded crime scene? I'm guessing they hired her to interpret a crime scene photo as a ritualistic event and that's what she did. Without benefit of context, forensics, technology (for example, the technology that aided the blood spatter expert in his assessment of the blood on the tree).

Without the F/7/L, there is no Odinistic crime scene.

You're left with RA on the bridge. You have someone who used what was on hand to cover up a crime scene.

Occam.

JMO

And IIRC NMcL mentioned at the hearings, when Perlmutter was on the stand, that she made this conclusion months before she ever even viewed the crime scene photos...that's very odd to do...for an expert. MO

 

[TTF14]

And IIRC NMcL mentioned at the hearings, when Perlmutter was on the stand, that she made this conclusion months before she ever even viewed the crime scene photos...that's very odd to do...for an expert. MO

Didn't she say that based on the diagram Barb MacDonald brought on to CourtTV? The diagram that was being widely circulated as accurately representing the arrangement of the sticks on the bodies of the girls? I'm confused why such a big deal is being made of her offering her opinion that juncture, when she was not under oath and not even "on the case" yet.

IMO MOO

 

[sunshineray]

No. Why would they? Their job is to defend their client, not solve the case.

IMO MOO

Well they surely have investigated some things and have put many a scenario involving people and actions into the FMs while defending their client. I just thought I might have missed something, thanks anyway.

 

[tlcya]

Wasn't that diagram used on Court TV created using the descriptions laid out in the original Frank's Motion [memo in support of] ? So wouldn't that also mean Perlmutter made her proclamation in 2023 on that program about textbook ritual killing by viewing a diagram created to illustrate what the DT theorized? That isn't evidence in my book. That is allegation MOO

If I recall, she didn't view the actual evidence in the case until early in 2024.

ETA:
from Court TV Delphi Murders: Where does the case stand 7 years later?

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Didn't she say that based on the diagram Barb MacDonald brought on to CourtTV? The diagram that was being widely circulated as accurately representing the arrangement of the sticks on the bodies of the girls? I'm confused why such a big deal is being made of her offering her opinion that juncture, when she was not under oath and not even "on the case" yet.

IMO MOO

How do you know those stick diagrams are accurate?
I don’t believe this theory has been proven.
Did someone testify that those were accurate to when the crime scene was first discovered?

 

[tlcya]

Didn't she say that based on the diagram Barb MacDonald brought on to CourtTV? The diagram that was being widely circulated as accurately representing the arrangement of the sticks on the bodies of the girls? I'm confused why such a big deal is being made of her offering her opinion that juncture, when she was not under oath and not even "on the case" yet.

IMO MOO

could you please provide a link that shows this diagram was widely circulated as an accurate depiction of the arrangement of sticks on the bodies of the girls? I don't seem to recall LE ever stating or confirming that to be the case.

 

[TTF14]

could you please provide a link that shows this diagram was widely circulated as an accurate depiction of the arrangement of sticks on the bodies of the girls? I don't seem to recall LE ever stating or confirming that to be the case.

Nope! I said it was my opinion.

MOOOOO

 

[tlcya]

Nope! I said it was my opinion.

MOOOOO

ah, I see where I became confused. I thought your opinion was that people were making much ado about nothing because Perlmutter opined using that diagram that was widely circulated as an accurate representation.

I now realize it was simply your opinion that the diagram was widely circulated as accurate as well.

Thanks for clarifying

 

[katydid23]

Kindly provide a link that tells us this is what happened.

Thank you.

What are the other possibilities? IMO, they were either forced to undress or they did so voluntarily. I think it's pretty obvious what happened.

 

[katydid23]

Couldn't "excluded from public access" simply mean we're not going to be able to find it on MyCase?

What is the rule 5 of access to court records in Indiana?


Rule 5(A) begins by recognizing that, in some instances, an entire case shall be excluded from Public Access because all Court Records have been declared confidential, but Rules 5 (B), (C), (D) and (E) make clear that in most instances it is only individual Case or Administrative Records that have been declared ...

Indiana Rules on Access to Court Records - IN.gov​

 

[Vern]

Per the article, the grandmother didn’t tip in BH. She provided information to investigators immediately after the murders, possibly before the BG photo was released. I’m certain she was asked many questions by LE. She told all she knew, about many people who may have known the girls. She didn’t finger BH.

jmo

IMO, of course she didn't "tip in" BH ... nor did the article writer just choose to use different wording.

Grandma would have been questionned by LE when these girls were reported missing on the 13th especially given that they were juveniles.

Questions like (IMO):
- "Can you tell s the names of any associates they may have contacted/gone to visit";
- "Do either of them have a boyfriend/girlfriend we should be reachig out t to see if they've heard from the girls" etc etc etc (Ohhhhhh IMO, Yes she had a crush on a boy so you should talk to him, BH is his dad) etc etc etc

As happens with the overwhelming majority of missing persons cases. Who do we need to talk to? Who might the missing individual(s) (the girls in ths case) have reached out to, spoke to, contacted via whatever means.

All IMO of course so I have no link to back it up, but given the myriad other cases where LE is immediately calling for frimeds/associates of the missing to reach out to them and provide info/asking family members to provide info on same friends or associates that they should talk to who may be able to provide info about the missing or their whereabouts ....

So, IMO, nothing to see here. Normal that some/many individuals would be brought up as possibly having information to provide LE; not nefarious.

 

[FrostedGlass]

MOO
From the beginning, when we learned where the bodies were found, I wondered: "Why there?"

(snipped from the link)
1. The location of the crime. Dr. Perlmutter testified that Odinism and Asatru are
nature-based ideologies. These murders took place outdoors in a clearing in a wooded
area near a body of water.

Brief in Opposition to State's M.pdf

drive.google.com

That reminded me of Awsi Dooger's post back in 2021, after he visited the bridge area:
(Snipped from the post for focus)
"The girls were apparently found just below a natural ledge that is roughly 18 inches high. Atop the ledge are a circle of trees. I have posted related photos a couple of times."

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #134

Maybe he didn't need to. Maybe he just wanted to. One of the signatures?

www.websleuths.com

I think whoever took Libby and Abby knew exactly where they wanted to murder them.