Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #194

[Vern]

Well they surely have investigated some things and have put many a scenario involving people and actions into the FMs while defending their client. I just thought I might have missed something, thanks anyway.

Absolutely. Also, IMO why would LE and the prosecution put out evidence before trial especially when under a gag order?

Why would they? That's not their jobs. Their jobs are to try the case and present the evidence in a court of law, not to the internet.

And, IMO, they shall.

 

[Vern]

MOO
From the beginning, when we learned where the bodies were found, I wondered: "Why there?"

(snipped from the link)
1. The location of the crime. Dr. Perlmutter testified that Odinism and Asatru are
nature-based ideologies. These murders took place outdoors in a clearing in a wooded
area near a body of water.

Brief in Opposition to State's M.pdf

drive.google.com

That reminded me of Awsi Dooger's post back in 2021, after he visited the bridge area:
(Snipped from the post for focus)
"The girls were apparently found just below a natural ledge that is roughly 18 inches high. Atop the ledge are a circle of trees. I have posted related photos a couple of times."

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #134

Maybe he didn't need to. Maybe he just wanted to. One of the signatures?

www.websleuths.com

I think whoever took Libby and Abby knew exactly where they wanted to murder them.

Thousands of murders have occured in wooded areas, clearings in woods, near water and even had victims covered by sticks and leaves etc. And sunset the 13th Feb to sunup on the 14th (the all important Odinist sacrifical time) isn't working with the testified to timeline of the murders either.

This is proof of nothing - especially of a ritualistic sacrificial murder by Odinists (or even one staged by other(s) to look as if it were).

But, I do agree that the individual who murdered them may have staked this place out during his earlier hikes of the MHB area and it's trails. Perhaps choosing it precisely because it was a 'bowl' within the surrounding woods and ergo less visible from the bridge etc when those trees were without their leaves and he'd have a bit more privacy to 'work'. But certainly didn't make the choice because "Odinism/heathenism/ritual cult/place of sacrifice/place of framing others etc IMO.

 

[susiQ]

Per the article, the grandmother didn’t tip in BH. She provided information to investigators immediately after the murders, possibly before the BG photo was released. I’m certain she was asked many questions by LE. She told all she knew, about many people who may have known the girls. She didn’t finger BH.

jmo

I respectfully disagree. BP did not provide information “immediately after the murders, possibly before the BG photo was released.” Officer Purdy came to the investigaion in March of 2017 and knew nothing of Odin or Odinists until around May or June 2017 which is when BP came to him to fill him in on AW’s relationship with the son of an Odinist. FM pg 50, linked below.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I respectfully disagree. BP did not provide information “immediately after the murders, possibly before the BG photo was released.” Officer Purdy came to the investigaion in March of 2017 and knew nothing of Odin or Odinists until around May or June 2017 which is when BP came to him to fill him in on AW’s relationship with the son of an Odinist. FM pg 50, linked below.

From the article linked by TTF in their post:
“Almost immediately after the killings, Libby’s grandmother, …., told investigators that the father of Abby’s boyfriend practiced Odinism, a Nordic pagan religion.”

I added the maybe before the photo was released, as my own speculation and possibility.

Maybe she was asked about known religious backgrounds of everyone. I personally did a deposition recently where I was asked questions of all sorts that seemed unusual.

https://fox59.com/news/judge-considers-motion-to-dismiss-charges-and-sanction-prosecutor-in-delphi-case/

 

[susiQ]

No, I doubt that, but this case is so crazy I guess it's possible! I mean I think the perpetrator(s) tried to make it look like some kind of heathen/pagan/Norse thing to either simply throw off investigators and send them on a wild goose chase or maybe even frame someone specifically (like BH). I'd be totally inclined to think it was to do just that (throw investigators off and/or frame BH) if EF hadn't confessed to his sister. That, and other information that came out in the March 18th hearing, makes me still wonder if it was not staging to misdirect and/or frame, but that they actually did it.

How RA fits into all of that, I don't know. I think there are multiple perpetrators (IMO) so I also think there could have been multiple motives/connections between perps. IMO MOO

IMO MOO

I don’t know if someone was trying to frame that particular Odinist, but it is very disturbing to see the pic that was captured from this particular Odin worshipper’s FB post (by the guy in Georgia, RB) that showed what appeared to be a young woman laid out intertwined in what I would call a “rune.” Totally bizarre. It gave me the creeps. The girl actually looks dead. Whether she was merely posed to look dead, I don’t know. What I do know is it makes me wonder why anyone would post such a picture. JMHO.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Thousands of murders have occured in wooded areas, clearings in woods, near water and even had victims covered by sticks and leaves etc. And sunset the 13th Feb to sunup on the 14th (the all important Odinist sacrifical time) isn't working with the testified to timeline of the murders either.

This is proof of nothing - especially of a ritualistic sacrificial murder by Odinists (or even one staged by other(s) to look as if it were).

But, I do agree that the individual who murdered them may have staked this place out during his earlier hikes of the MHB area and its trails. Perhaps choosing it precisely because it was a 'bowl' within the surrounding woods and ergo less visible from the bridge etc when those trees were without their leaves and he'd have a bit more privacy to 'work'. But certainly didn't make the choice because "Odinism/heathenism/ritual cult/place of sacrifice/place of framing others etc IMO.

Agree. I am of the opinion he staked the place out. Knew it was hard to see and get to. Even may have known it would shield against noises traveling and weak or spotty cell reception.
I am also of the opinion that he already had the crime scene ready to some degree for his victims. It’s horrifying but I believe he took photos or video which would explain why the girls were placed close together. It also would explain why it was done in the woods during the day. Natural lighting and the setting can’t be linked back to the perpetrator.
Of course this is all my opinion based on my theory of events.
May justice come soon for Abby and Libby.

 

[Megnut]

It (the location) was important enough, to bring their (precious) bodies to it.

Why?

Huge risk for cross transfer of blood and DNA. So why?

What about that spot mattered to him?

Was it visible from another important point? So he could look right at it and no one would know?

He chose that spot.

JMO

 

[TTF14]

From the article linked by TTF in their post:
“Almost immediately after the killings, Libby’s grandmother, Becky Patty, told investigators that the father of Abby’s boyfriend practiced Odinism, a Nordic pagan religion.”

I added the maybe before the photo was released, as my own speculation and possibility.

Maybe she was asked about known religious backgrounds of everyone. I personally did a deposition recently where I was asked questions of all sorts that seemed unusual.

https://fox59.com/news/judge-considers-motion-to-dismiss-charges-and-sanction-prosecutor-in-delphi-case/

I'm not casting shade on the grandmother, but I would be more concerned about people who tipped in BH within the first few days without seeing any photos of the crime scene. I mean, why in the world would their brains go to Heathenism/Paganism/Norse religions unless you had knowledge of the crime scene? Consider this my opinion only, that LE received multiple tips about BH within the first few days, because I can't find the link at the moment where that was said. So, my opinion only. Only my opinion. A big old loud MOOOOOO until I can find the link!

IMO MOOOOOOOOOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

I'm not casting shade on the grandmother, but I would be more concerned about people who tipped in BH within the first few days without seeing any photos of the crime scene. I mean, why in the world would their brains go to Heathenism/Paganism/Norse religions unless you had knowledge of the crime scene? Consider this my opinion only, that LE received multiple tips about BH within the first few days, because I can't find the link at the moment where that was said. So, my opinion only. Only my opinion. A big old loud MOOOOOO until I can find the link!

IMO MOOOOOOOOOO

I get it. The crime scene looked possibly like a ritual. LE was quick to investigate, and determined it was (poorly) staged as such. BH was in the POI mix, as were many, many through the years. Most importantly, BH was nowhere near the crime scene during the murders.

I get that defense would like to move the timeline to include BH or his cohorts, and get RA off of the bridge. Moving the timeline does not work for me and won’t work for a jury.

Nick M will nail down the timeline and nail RA right to it.

All - IMO

jmo

 

[TTF14]

I get that defense would like to move the timeline to include BH or his cohorts, and get RA off of the bridge. Moving the timeline does not work for me and won’t work for a jury.

Nick M will nail down the timeline and nail RA right to it.

We agree that this whole case will hinge on a timeline that is able to be proven!

JMO MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

We agree that this whole case will hinge on a timeline that is able to be proven!

JMO MOO

Also identifying RA as the man on the bridge. Timeline and identity will be key. Confessions may be admitted. The bullet may help, I’m just not a major fan. If there’s additional (yet unknown) evidence like DNA or digital, or a close family member he told and will testify - RA is done.

jmo

 

[TTF14]

Also identifying RA as the man on the bridge. Timeline and identity will be key. Confessions may be admitted. The bullet may help, I’m just not a major fan. If there’s additional (yet unknown) evidence like DNA or digital, or a close family member he told and will testify - RA is done.

jmo

Appreciate your perspective, but for me, it's only the timeline. But I'm also eager to hear the ballistics experts.

IMO MOO

 

[shonyakay]

It (the location) was important enough, to bring their (precious) bodies to it.

Why?

Huge risk for cross transfer of blood and DNA. So why?

What about that spot mattered to him?

Was it visible from another important point? So he could look right at it and no one would know?

He chose that spot.

JMO

Do you think it's possible the girls ran across the creek to get away from BG and that is the area where they just ended up?

Where can I find the info that Abby was moved?

I do understand that Libby was dragged to the point she was found. (7 feet from the voluminous pools of her blood. Sorry for the graphic nature of that description.)

 

[shonyakay]

I'm not casting shade on the grandmother, but I would be more concerned about people who tipped in BH within the first few days without seeing any photos of the crime scene. I mean, why in the world would their brains go to Heathenism/Paganism/Norse religions unless you had knowledge of the crime scene? Consider this my opinion only, that LE received multiple tips about BH within the first few days, because I can't find the link at the moment where that was said. So, my opinion only. Only my opinion. A big old loud MOOOOOO until I can find the link!

IMO MOOOOOOOOOO

When we're "signatures" first mentioned in regards to the crime scene? That could possibly sound cultish to some people who knew BH was involved in an unusual religion imo.

 

[shonyakay]

I don’t know if someone was trying to frame that particular Odinist, but it is very disturbing to see the pic that was captured from this particular Odin worshipper’s FB post (by the guy in Georgia, RB) that showed what appeared to be a young woman laid out intertwined in what I would call a “rune.” Totally bizarre. It gave me the creeps. The girl actually looks dead. Whether she was merely posed to look dead, I don’t know. What I do know is it makes me wonder why anyone would post such a picture. JMHO.

I will say that the Pic is odd. Doesn't BH deny that he posted that though? Can it be proven he did?

 

[Yemelyan]

When we're "signatures" first mentioned in regards to the crime scene? That could possibly sound cultish to some people who knew BH was involved in an unusual religion imo.

I think the first time the word "signatures" was used was in summer of 2020, in an interview former Carroll County prosecutor Robert Ives gave to HLN's podcast "Down the Hill." You can read a transcript of this part of the podcast here: https://crimelights.com/robert-ives-interview-delphi-signatures/

 

[shonyakay]

Warning graphic: My understanding in regards to the testimony at the hearing is that Abby's blood was found in her hair, soaked on the clothing in the area of her neck and pooled behind her neck area on the ground. This leads me to believe that Abby was injured where she was discovered. Unlike Libby whose blood tells a horrifying story that she was mobile at the time of her injuries.