Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #194

[shonyakay]

The lack of blood on Abby's hands bothers me.

If she was conscious, all I can think is that she was on her back, and the attacker was on top of her, kneeling on her arms.

Otherwise, why would she just lie there? Why wouldn't she grab at the knife? Or attempt to hold the wound?

So I just have this image in my head of her attacker kneeling on her arms, getting off on watching her slowly bleed out, and that is more horrifying to me than Libby dying quickly, fighting to get away.

MOO

I wanted to clarify that what both girls went through is horrifying. I don't mean to lessen what either of these girls endured.

 

[susiQ]

I will say that the Pic is odd. Doesn't BH deny that he posted that though? Can it be proven he did?

It’s listed as an exhibit in the FM so I would think it could be proven he posted it, unless of course, someone equally deranged had access to his FB account. JMO

 

[justtrish]

Do you think it's possible the girls ran across the creek to get away from BG and that is the area where they just ended up?

Where can I find the info that Abby was moved?

I do understand that Libby was dragged to the point she was found. (7 feet from the voluminous pools of her blood. Sorry for the graphic nature of that description.)

I do think this is possible. I think maybe they thought he wouldn't go through the water after them.

I also think it's equally as possible he ordered them through the water because he wanted to isolate them and get them further away from possible walkers on the trail. Once they were wet he can order them to take their clothing off. Only 3 people know exactly what happened in those moments. We thankfully know where they were when they were taken because Libby so bravely recorded this.. and we know he ordered them down the hill so we know which direction they headed or which direction he intended to take them. What else is on the recording, we don't know fully yet. I think clothing being found near the water and the fact they were found on the other side of the water from where we know he took them from means it would be reasonable to say they crossed the water either by force or by choice trying to get away from him.

 

[iamshadow21]

I wanted to clarify that what both girls went through is horrifying. I don't mean to lessen what either of these girls endured.

Yeah, I agree. I've just been thinking a lot about Abby, is all. Don't mind me, I'm just a bit melancholy today. Haven't been sleeping well.

MOO

 

[justtrish]

The lack of blood on Abby's hands bothers me.

If she was conscious, all I can think is that she was on her back, and the attacker was on top of her, kneeling on her arms.

Otherwise, why would she just lie there? Why wouldn't she grab at the knife? Or attempt to hold the wound?

So I just have this image in my head of her attacker kneeling on her arms, getting off on watching her slowly bleed out, and that is more horrifying to me than Libby dying quickly, fighting to get away.

MOO

My best guess and hope is there is no blood on her hands because she was unconscious immediately after the injury and couldn't even react to what happened. That would be best case for her. It is all just horrific and to even think about it is hard. Weather she was killed first and then Libby saw it and fought like heck because she knew what was coming and she just witnessed something nobody should have to see.. I know however it happened someone saw the other one being harmed and it had to be more terrifying than the abduction and anything else going on up to that point. These poor girls.

 

[katydid23]

The lack of blood on Abby's hands bothers me.

If she was conscious, all I can think is that she was on her back, and the attacker was on top of her, kneeling on her arms.

Otherwise, why would she just lie there? Why wouldn't she grab at the knife? Or attempt to hold the wound?

So I just have this image in my head of her attacker kneeling on her arms, getting off on watching her slowly bleed out, and that is more horrifying to me than Libby dying quickly, fighting to get away.

MOO

Sounds like it describes Abby's situation well, but what would Libby be doing while he was sitting on top of Abby? Wouldn't that give Libby time to run and call out for help?

 

[iamshadow21]

Sounds like it describes Abby's situation well, but what would Libby be doing while he was sitting on top of Abby? Wouldn't that give Libby time to run and call out for help?

I don't know.

I suspect at trial we'll find out that at some point, one or both of them was restrained with ligatures, or one was rendered unconscious.

If Libby was tied while he was killing Abby, maybe she got free somehow and that's why her death was much more frenzied.

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Didn't she say that based on the diagram Barb MacDonald brought on to CourtTV? The diagram that was being widely circulated as accurately representing the arrangement of the sticks on the bodies of the girls? I'm confused why such a big deal is being made of her offering her opinion that juncture, when she was not under oath and not even "on the case" yet.

IMO MOO

She hadn't seen the offical evidence yet before making her conclusions. That matters, IMO.

 

[Megnut]

Do you think it's possible the girls ran across the creek to get away from BG and that is the area where they just ended up?

Where can I find the info that Abby was moved?

I do understand that Libby was dragged to the point she was found. (7 feet from the voluminous pools of her blood. Sorry for the graphic nature of that description.)

It was in the 4 day hearing from the blood spatter expert. He said AW was carried and LG was dragged... was it 7 feet? I heard 70. Either way, he went to an effort to re-locate/re-position them. So why did that final resting place mean so much to him?

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

The lack of blood on Abby's hands bothers me.

If she was conscious, all I can think is that she was on her back, and the attacker was on top of her, kneeling on her arms.

Otherwise, why would she just lie there? Why wouldn't she grab at the knife? Or attempt to hold the wound?

So I just have this image in my head of her attacker kneeling on her arms, getting off on watching her slowly bleed out, and that is more horrifying to me than Libby dying quickly, fighting to get away.

MOO

Abby could have been knocked unconscious. The pathologist testimony is going to be so hard. </3

 

[iamshadow21]

It was in the 4 day hearing from the blood spatter expert. He said AW was carried and LG was dragged... was it 7 feet? I heard 70. Either way, he went to an effort to re-locate/re-position them. So why did that final resting place mean so much to him?

JMO

In my opinion, he'd had a picture in his mind, a fantasy, for a very long time. And creating that was just as, if not more, important than the actual killing. That's a signature - something that's unnecessary to commit the crime but necessary for the gratification of the offender.

MOO

 

[Willow Knight]

I still think it's possible KAK's dropbox and/or possible other accounts may hold a connection. MO

All My Opinion
LE dug up Richard Allen's yard behind his shed. LE was interested in the burn pit. LE was looking for something in particular in those areas. Why, think about it, LE just didn't go out one day and dig. Prior to LE digging up the yard, they would have learned of something that may be found there.

The search warrant even specifically stated for search of outdoor buildings.

This all tells me LE had prior knowledge. Then after the search Richard Allen is arrested.

KAK was not the only person with the password to his dropbox.

 

[Vern]

It was in the 4 day hearing from the blood spatter expert. He said AW was carried and LG was dragged... was it 7 feet? I heard 70. Either way, he went to an effort to re-locate/re-position them. So why did that final resting place mean so much to him?

JMO

It was the 3 Day Hearings. 70 feet.

Warning GRAPHIC:

According to Cicero's testimony, Abby's throat was cut once so deeply that she was almost decapitated.

Libby fought like heck to run away - she was mobile/moving away and suffered 3 injuries to her throat with the last one being the one that finally stopped her. She was then dragged 70 feet from and through the large pool of blood and the smaller pools, causing the back of her legs etc to become smeared in her own blood as she was dragged back to where Abby laid deceased. At one of the points where her throat was injured, the blood sprayed onto a tree and she apparenty reached out to steady herself. Apparently, the full crime scene photo of the tree 'will go a long way to telling the actual story' rather than the small cropped portion of that photo that displayed the "Non-'Capital F' rune" that formed part of the Franks. Apparenty that tree was "covered in blood".

 

[sunshineray]

I don’t know if someone was trying to frame that particular Odinist, but it is very disturbing to see the pic that was captured from this particular Odin worshipper’s FB post (by the guy in Georgia, RB) that showed what appeared to be a young woman laid out intertwined in what I would call a “rune.” Totally bizarre. It gave me the creeps. The girl actually looks dead. Whether she was merely posed to look dead, I don’t know. What I do know is it makes me wonder why anyone would post such a picture. JMHO.

Has this photo you described been linked in an acceptable source? I've not seen it.

 

[sunshineray]

We agree that this whole case will hinge on a timeline that is able to be proven!

JMO MOO

The details that RA gave in his 60+ confessions and dozens more incriminating statements may actually play a much greater role at trial. They may wind up being the whole case. MO

 

[iamshadow21]

The details that RA gave in his 60+ confessions and dozens more incriminating statements may actually play a much greater role at trial. They may wind up being the whole case. MO

I don't think that will be, because a case can't hinge solely on confessions. It has to have supporting evidence.

 

[sunshineray]

Sounds like it describes Abby's situation well, but what would Libby be doing while he was sitting on top of Abby? Wouldn't that give Libby time to run and call out for help?

Maybe that's exactly how it happened? Abby being disabled and then slashed was what compelled Libby to run? Too chilling to think about </3

 

[sunshineray]

I don't know.

I suspect at trial we'll find out that at some point, one or both of them was restrained with ligatures, or one was rendered unconscious.

If Libby was tied while he was killing Abby, maybe she got free somehow and that's why her death was much more frenzied.

MOO

Or if the gun was out in one hand (maybe used to knock Abby out?) pointed at Libby, him ordering her to sit down even as he dealt with Abby. Then she saw a chance to flee. Terrifying </3

 

[sunshineray]

It was in the 4 day hearing from the blood spatter expert. He said AW was carried and LG was dragged... was it 7 feet? I heard 70. Either way, he went to an effort to re-locate/re-position them. So why did that final resting place mean so much to him?

JMO

He wanted them next to each other? Maybe to photograph, physically or just mentally?

 

[photographer4]

The lack of blood on Abby's hands bothers me.

If she was conscious, all I can think is that she was on her back, and the attacker was on top of her, kneeling on her arms.

Otherwise, why would she just lie there? Why wouldn't she grab at the knife? Or attempt to hold the wound?

So I just have this image in my head of her attacker kneeling on her arms, getting off on watching her slowly bleed out, and that is more horrifying to me than Libby dying quickly, fighting to get away.

MOO

As horrific as it is, I wonder if AW didn’t have to be held down. She may have been I conscious. It’s possible she collapsed or fainted out of total fear. Maybe she was drugged? Maybe hurt in some other way and rendered unconscious? If someone restrained her maybe they know based on markings or sign of struggle. It was awful no matter how it happened.