Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #194

[Tealgrove]

I'd say the killer was likely also muddy after going into the water and then murdering 2 girls in the wooded dirty area. I do think moving around wet on a dirty ground would get him muddy. So even if the witness said he looked muddy.. maybe LE said could it have been blood and she says it could have been yes. I guess I just don't get the nit picking of this without having the full transcript of her interview or statements, we don't know what was or wasn't mentioned about blood. The defense tells us only what they want to so their client comes out in the best possible light and LE come out in the worst possible light. Doesn't mean it was a lie on either side, just means they picked what they wanted to say from the interviews.

Also he had a hoodie that was light colored under his blue jacketed so even seeing a man muddy and in a tan jacket could be RA walking the road muddy with his tan hoodie now being his outer garment. All MOO of course.

He’d get muddy trying to scurry up the hill while getting out of Dodge. It’s a bit of a steep incline to get up to the top and out of the valley. I can picture a person almost crawling in places while trying to haul themselves up and out.

MOO

 

[tlcya]

They "lost" weeks of recorded interviews. Called off the dogs. The coroner didn't take body temps.

You didn't ask me, but off the top of my head....those are my answers. I could give a lot more but they may go against TOS.

IMO MOO

for clarification, is it your opinion that coroner and/or medical examiner failed to take body temperatures to establish TOD or is that information that I can find an approved link to? I won't ask you to produce a link, I am happy to locate my own if you confirm that is not simply your opinion. TIA

 

[Vern]

Unfortunately, BB and SC’s descriptions in no way align. Two different men. SC reported seeing a muddy man (not bloody) wearing a tan jacket (not blue). This is part of the discovery. FM pg 115,116. Whatever one thinks of the FM, one cannot deny a taped interview that will likely come into evidence at trial. Someone lied on the PCA and this will be exposed. JMHO

The PCA is a "summary" of "some" bits of evidence/statements/facts etc to show why there is "Probable Cause" to grant a search warrant.

While some are hung up on on the Franks motion saying she did not use the word "bloody", I am not. The defence literally "quoted" ONLY that one word in that Franks and that tells me there was a specific reason for that. That reason was because she did not use the word "bloody".

LE summarized what her statement covered. She probably stated something to the effect of 'he was muddy and had blood on him'. That was summarized into 'he was muddy and bloody.' That's not misleading - it's a summary.

Perhaps she also stated something like, 'he was wearing a tan jacket and was carrying a blue one' or 'had a blue one draped over his shoulder.' Perhaps the Defence just happens to fail to mention a tidbit like that in their motion ... after all why would they?

In any case, the Judge denied the defence motion after reviewing it and the video interview based on the fact that she found there was no misleading in the prosecution's PCA request. She has actually seen and heard the interview.

IMO, what will be exposed is that the D-Team has been very good at cherry-picking one word to quote ("bloody") and bis of her statement from what was and is actually "a summary" of only a portion of what a witness had to say.

IMO, MOO, IMHO.

 

[layer]

I haven't looked at that bridge for over 5 years. Frankly I was shocked to see how it appears now.

Source

 

[tlcya]

I haven't looked at that bridge for over 5 years. Frankly I was shocked to see how it appears now.

Source

yes, it looks very different today after all the renovations made in the last couple of years. That rickety rail bridge was in really scary shape. I remember thinking when the girls went missing "you would never get me up on that thing"

According to the governor’s office, the Next Level Trails initiative’s money will add decking and safety railing to the Monon High Bridge. It also will construct at 0.95-mile asphalt trail along the former rail corridor on either side of the Freedom Bridge over the Hoosier Heartland Highway, from Samuel Milroy Road to the Monon High Bridge.
$1.2M to restore Monon High Bridge trail, scene in Delphi teens’ murder

“Stabilization of the damaged pier, which prompted Indiana Landmarks to include the bridge on our 2016 10 Most Endangered list, was critical to the effort. The repaired pier ensured the preservation of this landmark span for yet another century,” said Tommy Kleckner, Western Regional director for Indiana Landmarks. “A generous grant of $248,000 from North Central Health Services allowed us to proceed with the next phase of the Monon High Bridge rehabilitation project, the installation of decking and railing on west quarter of the bridge to allow for safe pedestrian use.”
Monon High Bridge Trail Dedicated

 

[Arkay]

Let's go back to our young teenage years and just imagine for a moment:

You are walking on a 60-70ft corroded, dangerous high bridge (Abby for the first time) and some creeper man brandishing a weapon while on said bridge approaches you and orders you DTH at gunpoint.

Do you really think these girls had time to even begin to process what avenue would have been a better route of escape or if Libby was supposedly banned from a property she wouldn't have run to it for safety regardless of the consequences?

This is real life, real time happenings. These young girls were probably in shocked compliance mode. I will not blame them for being brutally murdered that day for ANY of their choices. What happened to them is beyond our understanding from our comfy analytical armchair.

Abby & Libby were innocent victims period and to think they had time and the mental wherewithal to figure out an escape plan or save themselves from a monster but didn't for whatever reason is hurtful and shockingly in poor taste. Haven't they suffered enough? They've been dead for over seven years, I think Abby & Libby have paid the ultimate price.

MOO

Excellent analysis of what likely transpired.

As though Libby or Abby had time or clarity of thought to Google property records and determine if it’s better to trespass than die.

They were children, in the daytime, in an area local to them (albeit in my eyes an awful place to hang out, that rotten bridge) and confronted by the absolute worst scenario possible. They must have been cognitively incapacitated by the terror approaching them. Then physically incapacitated once the assaults began.

There was really no way out for them, IMO, and the only miracle of the day was that somehow, Libby, in extremis, managed to video BG.

JMO

Justice for you, Abby. Justice for you, Libby.

 

[statt#1]

My opinion of the path at the end of the bridge is this. That is the railroad bed, and it's exactly where the orange/red metal gate was.....can't see it around the corner in that vid, simple as that. And my opinion also is, that the reason it was gated is because the private property beyond where the old rail bed passes through had issues with trespass at that spot. My opinion also is that the area beyond the gate, the rail bed, wasn't as easily passable as one might assume.

I actually studied this rail bed early on, years ago, as a potential escape route for the killer. It would have provided an escape staying in a wooded area away from easy detection, and it dumps out on to W 200 N between Pine Grove Missionary Baptist Church and PTI Machinery.

None of that would necessarily keep the girls from trying to escape around the gate, or through the woods to that private property/home, however, with a 40 caliber sig waving around at you, and some crazed lunatic murderer ordering you down the hill, when you're 13 years old or so, my guess is that the terror of that situation would preclude you from making rational decisions. In fact, fearing for your life, you'd probably do exactly as you were told. Imagine if BG/RA had already grabbed Abby by the arm, and had a firm grip on her, while he was pointing the gun at Libby, and saying "down the hill".

 

[tlcya]

one reason I have never felt there was more than one killer is that I feel it would be rather easy for one grown armed man to control two young girls. All one would need to do is exert physical control over one while threatening the other with their own death or the death of their friend.

You scream, I kill her/you.
You try to run, I kill her/you.
You don't disrobe, I kill her/you

and so forth.

They are out of view of any other witnesses, if one screams, sure others might hear and come looking for the source but one or both girls could easily be dead by the time help arrived, if it ever did.

JMO MOO

 

[statt#1]

It's my opinion only that the photo included here is of the gate/barrier.

 

[shonyakay]

It really bothers me that LE is so confident in saying that the unfired round supposedly found between Libby and Abby's bodies comes from RA's gun, based on the "tool marks" left on the .40 cal round made by the guns ejector. From what I understand, tool mark identification is by no means accepted science. The science behind tool mark analysis is all funded by government law enforcement and so it tends to support the conclusions law enforcement wants to hear.

https://illinoislawreview.org/wp-content/ilr-content/articles/2011/1/Giannelli.pdf

Additionally, I believe there was no photograph of the round as it was found at the crime scene. So isn't this also a problem?

Additionally, from what I recall, the round was not found when the crime scene was still closed and controlled--it was found 3 days later after the crime scene was "released". Isn't this another problem?

LE asserting this round came from RA's pistol is an overreach on LE's part. in my opinion, and I feel that the defense will have no problems poking holes in this supposed link to RA.

I can't provide links so all of the above is JMO. Thankfully RA "confessed" to the crime numerous times (or so prison officials say) so even if the round is excluded, there should be enough to convict RA of the murders.

JMO

When Holeman questioned RA before his arrest in October 2023 he mentioned that they have had that round since February 14. He also mentioned that it was by the foot of one of the girl's, it was logged, taken, and photographed.

 

[susiQ]

When Holeman questioned RA before his arrest in October 2023 he mentioned that they have had that round since February 14. He also mentioned that it was by the foot of one of the girl's, it was logged, taken, and photographed.

I’ve heard it said previously that LE are allowed to lie in an interview/interrogation to illicit a confession? Am I mistaken?

 

[shonyakay]

I’ve heard it said previously that LE are allowed to lie in an interview/interrogation to illicit a confession? Am I mistaken?

They are allowed to lie. I guess we won't know for sure until the trial if that was or wasn't the case here.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Excellent analysis of what likely transpired.

As though Libby or Abby had time or clarity of thought to Google property records and determine if it’s better to trespass than die.

They were children, in the daytime, in an area local to them (albeit in my eyes an awful place to hang out, that rotten bridge) and confronted by the absolute worst scenario possible. They must have been cognitively incapacitated by the terror approaching them. Then physically incapacitated once the assaults began.

There was really no way out for them, IMO, and the only miracle of the day was that somehow, Libby, in extremis, managed to video BG.

JMO

Justice for you, Abby. Justice for you, Libby.

Highlighted by me for focus.
IMOO
I don't know where that idea comes from. Of course they didn't do that. Since the beginning many, many of us have wondered how and why they got from the bridge to the spot where they were killed. We covered almost every scenario imaginable.

What's different about discussing it now?

 

[FrostedGlass]

It's my opinion only that the photo included here is of the gate/barrier.

That's very similar to the one that was on the north end. Some thought the railroad installed it to keep vehicles off the bridge.

 

[Vaderman]

I'm beginning to think RA could confess for a 62nd time, produce videos/photos of the crime being committed, and his guilt would still be in doubt. :|

 

[sunshineray]

Thank you for posting this map; it's one I've been looking for. I was thinking it was one GH put out and the drop off time of 1:35 was of special interest to me.

Yes I think it's an early on one...before the right time was confirmed at 1:49, probably after KG's and her boyfriend's phone convo was verified by phone records.

 

[susiQ]

I'm beginning to think RA could confess for a 62nd time, produce videos/photos of the crime being committed, and his guilt would still be in doubt. :|

And I’m beginning to think that if other characters finally confessed, produced videos/photos of the crime being committed (with no RA in sight), they would still be cleared! JMHO

 

[FrostedGlass]

See who owns the surrounding property:

https://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=377&LayerID=5553&PageTypeID=1&PageID=0

IMO the railroad owns the property from the end of the bridge to that center vertical line. The homeowner owns the area at the bottom with three blue lines.

 

[shonyakay]

Yes, thank you. That's the path I was referring to and people are claiming it isn't there. I just didn't have a link to it. IMO, if the girls would have been able to make a break at that point, I think they would have gone on down that path.

Another video that shows that path.

 

[Charlot123]

It is MOO that the murders were not ritual killings NOR were they staged to appear to be ritual killings.

Mass hysteria is a thing. People having personal grudges against others is a thing. It is MOO that those two factors are at play in this case and have been since the early days. I blame social media, reddit, etc for this instance of that phenomenon.

Hampstead Hoax - Wikipedia

Satanic panic - Wikipedia

McMartin preschool trial - Wikipedia

Fall River murders - Wikipedia.

I am thinking, probably. But why not only DC, but Bob Ives, seemingly a logical person able to coherently express his thoughts, called the “signatures” “non-secular”? For six years, we were thinking about “signatures”. We heard of five. Were there any? I mean, can the LE tell between a signature and a blood splatter? Was LE victims of mass hysteria? The local ones, maybe, but they sent the case to GBI. Odd.