Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #194

[Arkay]

Let's go back to our young teenage years and just imagine for a moment:

You are walking on a 60-70ft corroded, dangerous high bridge (Abby for the first time) and some creeper man brandishing a weapon while on said bridge approaches you and orders you DTH at gunpoint.

Do you really think these girls had time to even begin to process what avenue would have been a better route of escape or if Libby was supposedly banned from a property she wouldn't have run to it for safety regardless of the consequences?

This is real life, real time happenings. These young girls were probably in shocked compliance mode. I will not blame them for being brutally murdered that day for ANY of their choices. What happened to them is beyond our understanding from our comfy analytical armchair.

Abby & Libby were innocent victims period and to think they had time and the mental wherewithal to figure out an escape plan or save themselves from a monster but didn't for whatever reason is hurtful and shockingly in poor taste. Haven't they suffered enough? They've been dead for over seven years, I think Abby & Libby have paid the ultimate price.

MOO

Excellent analysis of what likely transpired.

As though Libby or Abby had time or clarity of thought to Google property records and determine if it’s better to trespass than die.

They were children, in the daytime, in an area local to them (albeit in my eyes an awful place to hang out, that rotten bridge) and confronted by the absolute worst scenario possible. They must have been cognitively incapacitated by the terror approaching them. Then physically incapacitated once the assaults began.

There was really no way out for them, IMO, and the only miracle of the day was that somehow, Libby, in extremis, managed to video BG.

JMO

Justice for you, Abby. Justice for you, Libby.

 

[statt#1]

My opinion of the path at the end of the bridge is this. That is the railroad bed, and it's exactly where the orange/red metal gate was.....can't see it around the corner in that vid, simple as that. And my opinion also is, that the reason it was gated is because the private property beyond where the old rail bed passes through had issues with trespass at that spot. My opinion also is that the area beyond the gate, the rail bed, wasn't as easily passable as one might assume.

I actually studied this rail bed early on, years ago, as a potential escape route for the killer. It would have provided an escape staying in a wooded area away from easy detection, and it dumps out on to W 200 N between Pine Grove Missionary Baptist Church and PTI Machinery.

None of that would necessarily keep the girls from trying to escape around the gate, or through the woods to that private property/home, however, with a 40 caliber sig waving around at you, and some crazed lunatic murderer ordering you down the hill, when you're 13 years old or so, my guess is that the terror of that situation would preclude you from making rational decisions. In fact, fearing for your life, you'd probably do exactly as you were told. Imagine if BG/RA had already grabbed Abby by the arm, and had a firm grip on her, while he was pointing the gun at Libby, and saying "down the hill".

 

[tlcya]

one reason I have never felt there was more than one killer is that I feel it would be rather easy for one grown armed man to control two young girls. All one would need to do is exert physical control over one while threatening the other with their own death or the death of their friend.

You scream, I kill her/you.
You try to run, I kill her/you.
You don't disrobe, I kill her/you

and so forth.

They are out of view of any other witnesses, if one screams, sure others might hear and come looking for the source but one or both girls could easily be dead by the time help arrived, if it ever did.

JMO MOO

 

[statt#1]

It's my opinion only that the photo included here is of the gate/barrier.

 

[shonyakay]

It really bothers me that LE is so confident in saying that the unfired round supposedly found between Libby and Abby's bodies comes from RA's gun, based on the "tool marks" left on the .40 cal round made by the guns ejector. From what I understand, tool mark identification is by no means accepted science. The science behind tool mark analysis is all funded by government law enforcement and so it tends to support the conclusions law enforcement wants to hear.

https://illinoislawreview.org/wp-content/ilr-content/articles/2011/1/Giannelli.pdf

Additionally, I believe there was no photograph of the round as it was found at the crime scene. So isn't this also a problem?

Additionally, from what I recall, the round was not found when the crime scene was still closed and controlled--it was found 3 days later after the crime scene was "released". Isn't this another problem?

LE asserting this round came from RA's pistol is an overreach on LE's part. in my opinion, and I feel that the defense will have no problems poking holes in this supposed link to RA.

I can't provide links so all of the above is JMO. Thankfully RA "confessed" to the crime numerous times (or so prison officials say) so even if the round is excluded, there should be enough to convict RA of the murders.

JMO

When Holeman questioned RA before his arrest in October 2023 he mentioned that they have had that round since February 14. He also mentioned that it was by the foot of one of the girl's, it was logged, taken, and photographed.

 

[susiQ]

When Holeman questioned RA before his arrest in October 2023 he mentioned that they have had that round since February 14. He also mentioned that it was by the foot of one of the girl's, it was logged, taken, and photographed.

I’ve heard it said previously that LE are allowed to lie in an interview/interrogation to illicit a confession? Am I mistaken?

 

[shonyakay]

I’ve heard it said previously that LE are allowed to lie in an interview/interrogation to illicit a confession? Am I mistaken?

They are allowed to lie. I guess we won't know for sure until the trial if that was or wasn't the case here.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Excellent analysis of what likely transpired.

As though Libby or Abby had time or clarity of thought to Google property records and determine if it’s better to trespass than die.

They were children, in the daytime, in an area local to them (albeit in my eyes an awful place to hang out, that rotten bridge) and confronted by the absolute worst scenario possible. They must have been cognitively incapacitated by the terror approaching them. Then physically incapacitated once the assaults began.

There was really no way out for them, IMO, and the only miracle of the day was that somehow, Libby, in extremis, managed to video BG.

JMO

Justice for you, Abby. Justice for you, Libby.

Highlighted by me for focus.
IMOO
I don't know where that idea comes from. Of course they didn't do that. Since the beginning many, many of us have wondered how and why they got from the bridge to the spot where they were killed. We covered almost every scenario imaginable.

What's different about discussing it now?

 

[FrostedGlass]

It's my opinion only that the photo included here is of the gate/barrier.

That's very similar to the one that was on the north end. Some thought the railroad installed it to keep vehicles off the bridge.

 

[Vaderman]

I'm beginning to think RA could confess for a 62nd time, produce videos/photos of the crime being committed, and his guilt would still be in doubt. :|

 

[sunshineray]

Thank you for posting this map; it's one I've been looking for. I was thinking it was one GH put out and the drop off time of 1:35 was of special interest to me.

Yes I think it's an early on one...before the right time was confirmed at 1:49, probably after KG's and her boyfriend's phone convo was verified by phone records.

 

[susiQ]

I'm beginning to think RA could confess for a 62nd time, produce videos/photos of the crime being committed, and his guilt would still be in doubt. :|

And I’m beginning to think that if other characters finally confessed, produced videos/photos of the crime being committed (with no RA in sight), they would still be cleared! JMHO

 

[FrostedGlass]

See who owns the surrounding property:

https://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=377&LayerID=5553&PageTypeID=1&PageID=0

IMO the railroad owns the property from the end of the bridge to that center vertical line. The homeowner owns the area at the bottom with three blue lines.

 

[shonyakay]

Yes, thank you. That's the path I was referring to and people are claiming it isn't there. I just didn't have a link to it. IMO, if the girls would have been able to make a break at that point, I think they would have gone on down that path.

Another video that shows that path.

 

[Charlot123]

It is MOO that the murders were not ritual killings NOR were they staged to appear to be ritual killings.

Mass hysteria is a thing. People having personal grudges against others is a thing. It is MOO that those two factors are at play in this case and have been since the early days. I blame social media, reddit, etc for this instance of that phenomenon.

Hampstead Hoax - Wikipedia

Satanic panic - Wikipedia

McMartin preschool trial - Wikipedia

Fall River murders - Wikipedia.

I am thinking, probably. But why not only DC, but Bob Ives, seemingly a logical person able to coherently express his thoughts, called the “signatures” “non-secular”? For six years, we were thinking about “signatures”. We heard of five. Were there any? I mean, can the LE tell between a signature and a blood splatter? Was LE victims of mass hysteria? The local ones, maybe, but they sent the case to GBI. Odd.

 

[Tealgrove]

They "lost" weeks of recorded interviews. Called off the dogs. The coroner didn't take body temps.

You didn't ask me, but off the top of my head....those are my answers. I could give a lot more but they may go against TOS.

IMO MOO

“The Coroner didn’t take body temps”? Well that’s outrageous if true.

As the Autopsy Reports have not been publicized in any MSM I’ve followed, I’d like to know where this statement is derived from?

Please provide a link so that I can do some research on this.

TIA.

 

[ClearAhead]

“The Coroner didn’t take body temps”? Well that’s outrageous if true.

As the Autopsy Reports have not been publicized in any MSM I’ve followed, I’d like to know where this statement is derived from?

Please provide a link so that I can do some research on this.

TIA.

How about if the ‘forensic pathologist’ took the body temps? I’m also suspicious of the specific statement “the Coroner didn’t take body temps”. It’s only significant if body temps weren’t taken at all. MOO

 

[tlcya]

I am thinking, probably. But why not only DC, but Bob Ives, seemingly a logical person able to coherently express his thoughts, called the “signatures” “non-secular”? For six years, we were thinking about “signatures”. We heard of five. Were there any? I mean, can the LE tell between a signature and a blood splatter? Was LE victims of mass hysteria? The local ones, maybe, but they sent the case to GBI. Odd.

A signature crime is a crime which exhibits characteristics idiosyncratic to specific criminals, known as signature aspects, signature behaviours or signature characteristics. Where a modus operandi (MO) concerns the practical components of a crime which can also be unique to one suspect, signature aspects fulfill a psychological need and, unlike the MO, do not often change.
Signature crime - Wikipedia.

I can't speak to LE or their frame of mind and neither can anyone here. But it is MOO they were not victims of mass hysteria. IMO the public was and that is what brought in kookoo for coco puff tips about odinites and Facebook posts etc. Which LE then had to follow up.

It is MOO that they did so and found no actual evidence to link any of those suspects to this crime.

ETA I believe signatures was referring to specific elements of the crime scene but NOT that they refer specifically to blood spatter. That is a DT construct that I do not believe to be true. [edited to clarify]

 

[Tealgrove]

How about if the ‘forensic pathologist’ took the body temps? I’m also suspicious of the statement “the Coroner didn’t take body temps”. It’s only significant if body temps weren’t taken at all. MOO

I may get flamed here as I am from Canada and perhaps the roles do not line up the same in the US as in Canada.

A coroner is more investigative and administrative in nature. They don’t even have to be a physician. They can be but don’t need to be.

A medical examiner/forensic pathologist is indeed a physician and is the person tasked with performing autopsies.

Colour me confused if I’m correct. I wouldn’t expect the Coroner to be taking body temps but I would expect a medical examiner/forensic pathologist to perform that task.

My brain is doing laps.

 

[Willow Knight]

It is MOO that the murders were not ritual killings NOR were they staged to appear to be ritual killings.

Mass hysteria is a thing. People having personal grudges against others is a thing. It is MOO that those two factors are at play in this case and have been since the early days. I blame social media, reddit, etc for this instance of that phenomenon.

Hampstead Hoax - Wikipedia

Satanic panic - Wikipedia

McMartin preschool trial - Wikipedia

Fall River murders - Wikipedia.

If I may jump off your post. I strongly agree with the above, my opinion is strong. This was a sexual motivated horrific crime. Nothing I have seen or heard even remotely insinuates ritual/sacrifice killing. Nothing.

The crime shrieks of anger, sexual dysfunction by an evil, broken person. A person that has no regard for the rights of others. Was he angry he wasn't getting the respect and adoration he felt he deserved? Did he resent other men that appeared confident and content with themselves?

Did he feel the need to prove he could control?

The way these innocent young girls were murdered is unspeakable. It was close up and salvage. He is a monster. Let him have his trial, a fair trial, then should the evidence find him guilty BARD, get him off the streets and spend the rest of his pathetic life in prison. Hopefully alone.

Abby and Libby. We care.