Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #194

[justtrish]

If he was my client, I wouldn’t have a psych evaluation done either. What better way to tell my client, the state, the judge and jury, the media and the general public that I had concerns for his mental state? Surely that would create a bias against him. And since opinions of people are subjective, why would I trust anyone to set the record the way I needed it to go as his lawyer? That’s a roll of the roulette wheel I wouldn’t want to risk. Especially if doing so may ALsO allow the state access to his prior medical records via disclosure or cross of the expert. No thanks. IMO it’s better they haven’t done this. Moooo

If the lawyer is going to claim that the conditions of his confinement were so bad that he had mental issues that caused him to confess all these times, then why not have a medical professional say that? It makes no sense to claim someone was treated so badly he confessed due to mental duress and then you don't have any diagnosis to back that up. If they did have him evaluated and it was determined he was having a psychotic break or something like that, then it would be more believable that this is why he was confessing to crimes they claim he didn't do.

You said why would I trust anyone to set the record the way I needed it to go??

What about if they are making these claims against the place he's being held and those that are in charge of him, then they better not worry about how things need to go and worry about if what they are claiming is actually true. They throw it all out in court filings as if it's fact, but they don't know that it is fact. They just want it to be to explain why their client is confessing to most people he came into contact with.

 

[susiQ]

Genetic genealogy??? This is good news if it points to RA, he’s toast!

BBM

Over $1 million has been spent on the Delphi murders trial; how much more will be spent?

Of the $1 million spent so far, $581,605 is considered expenses for Richard Allen’s defense.

www.wthr.com

ISP told 13News it has recorded $330,223 in costs since Williams and German were murdered in 2017. Those costs include:

• $264,110 in overtime costs for investigators
• $22,848 for investigator lodging
• $9,178 for a leased office for investigators
• $5,511 for investigator meals
• $8,576 in miscellaneous supplies
• $20,000 for genetic genealogy

And if it points to a Vinlander/Odinist? Then, not such good news?

 

[photographer4]

Genetic genealogy??? This is good news if it points to RA, he’s toast!

BBM

Over $1 million has been spent on the Delphi murders trial; how much more will be spent?

Of the $1 million spent so far, $581,605 is considered expenses for Richard Allen’s defense.

www.wthr.com

ISP told 13News it has recorded $330,223 in costs since Williams and German were murdered in 2017. Those costs include:

• $264,110 in overtime costs for investigators
• $22,848 for investigator lodging
• $9,178 for a leased office for investigators
• $5,511 for investigator meals
• $8,576 in miscellaneous supplies
• $20,000 for genetic genealogy

Doubtful. Where I live, the police use volunteers to do this type of work in many cases (usually cold)... but hey, anything is possible.

 

[photographer4]

“And since opinions of people are subjective, why would I trust anyone to set the record the way I needed it to go as his lawyer?”

Huh?

Yes opinions are always going to be subjective in the absence of proof. The DT’s allegations that RA was suffering from psychosis is equally subjective without any independent medical evidence of psychosis to support it.

Equally subjective is DT’s allegations that the Odinists were responsible for these murders because there’s no proof of anyone other than RA on the bridge.

Do you notice a trend?

Didn't they have Dr. Wala confirm that?

 

[tlcya]

Genetic genealogy??? This is good news if it points to RA, he’s toast!

BBM

Over $1 million has been spent on the Delphi murders trial; how much more will be spent?

Of the $1 million spent so far, $581,605 is considered expenses for Richard Allen’s defense.

www.wthr.com

ISP told 13News it has recorded $330,223 in costs since Williams and German were murdered in 2017. Those costs include:

• $264,110 in overtime costs for investigators
• $22,848 for investigator lodging
• $9,178 for a leased office for investigators
• $5,511 for investigator meals
• $8,576 in miscellaneous supplies
• $20,000 for genetic genealogy

since these were investigative costs and the genetic genealogy expenses may be from very early on in the case, I am not confident those expenses mean the results of that testing revealed anything useful to the prosecution.

I mean what is genetic genealogy exactly? Is it DNA testing? Were they running some DNA found somewhere and looking for familial matches? Did that testing turn p a big nothing burger at the end of the day? shrug - I know nothing about this type of science.

 

[susiQ]

since these were investigative costs and the genetic genealogy expenses may be from very early on in the case, I am not confident those expenses mean the results of that testing revealed anything useful to the prosecution.

I mean what is genetic genealogy exactly? Is it DNA testing? Were they running some DNA found somewhere and looking for familial matches? Did that testing turn p a big nothing burger at the end of the day? shrug - I know nothing about this type of science.

It appears it turned up nothing as there is nothing that connects RA to the crime scene with regard to the DNA LE collected. This of course has been stated by the D which most consider unrepentant liars, yet LE are routinely lying to elicit confessions from POI’s. SMH.

 

[SouthEnd]

since these were investigative costs and the genetic genealogy expenses may be from very early on in the case, I am not confident those expenses mean the results of that testing revealed anything useful to the prosecution.

I mean what is genetic genealogy exactly? Is it DNA testing? Were they running some DNA found somewhere and looking for familial matches? Did that testing turn p a big nothing burger at the end of the day? shrug - I know nothing about this type of science.

I'm not able to access the article from my region, so this is all my opinion:

I believe all the spending is related to the trial, aka starting from when RA was arrested. So the genetic genealogy test must be recent enough.

My theory is that there was little dna found in the scene, possibly on clothes/shoes etc, possibly touch dna or a partial profile. It was never linked directly to any of the POI otherwise it would have come up, I am certain. If there was any DNA the prosecution would be running it through genetic genealogy to ensure it won't be a funky surprise come trial (I don't know, an Odinist that's not in the system yet). Most likely the results have come back to a non-POI (a school friend, a person with an alibi that gave the poor girls a hug or something) and that's why neither the DT or the Prosecution are talking about that DNA.

That's all MOO

 

[tlcya]

I'm not able to access the article from my region, so this is all my opinion:

I believe all the spending is related to the trial, aka starting from when RA was arrested. So the genetic genealogy test must be recent enough.

My theory is that there was little dna found in the scene, possibly on clothes/shoes etc, possibly touch dna or a partial profile. It was never linked directly to any of the POI otherwise it would have come up, I am certain. If there was any DNA the prosecution would be running it through genetic genealogy to ensure it won't be a funky surprise come trial (I don't know, an Odinist that's not in the system yet). Most likely the results have come back to a non-POI (a school friend, a person with an alibi that gave the poor girls a hug or something) and that's why neither the DT or the Prosecution are talking about that DNA.

That's all MOO

I'm sorry @SouthEnd, I didn't realize you couldn't read it. what I am referring to is this portion of the article:

ISP told 13News it has recorded $330,223 in costs since Williams and German were murdered in 2017. Those costs include:

$264,110 in overtime costs for investigators
$22,848 for investigator lodging
$9,178 for a leased office for investigators
$5,511 for investigator meals
$8,576 in miscellaneous supplies
$20,000 for genetic genealogy

More than three quarters of those costs were logged as part of the murder investigation prior to Allen’s arrest, with only $76,000 of ISP expenses coming since 2022.
Over $1 million has been spent on the Delphi murders trial; how much more will be spent?

 

[SouthEnd]

I'm sorry @SouthEnd, I didn't realize you couldn't read it. what I am referring to is this portion of the article:

ISP told 13News it has recorded $330,223 in costs since Williams and German were murdered in 2017. Those costs include:

$264,110 in overtime costs for investigators
$22,848 for investigator lodging
$9,178 for a leased office for investigators
$5,511 for investigator meals
$8,576 in miscellaneous supplies
$20,000 for genetic genealogy

More than three quarters of those costs were logged as part of the murder investigation prior to Allen’s arrest, with only $76,000 of ISP expenses coming since 2022.
Over $1 million has been spent on the Delphi murders trial; how much more will be spent?

Ha shows what happens when you go by your "intuition" alone! Thank you so much for the additional context.

I still don't have much hope that the DNA revealed anything too relevant, but it's good to know that the LE went down every avenue - I've seen cases on 48 hours in which the families of murder victims have been begging for genetic genealogy and the LE can't afford it / doesn't believe in it yet.

 

[TTF14]

Genetic genealogy??? This is good news if it points to RA, he’s toast!

I doubt it identified him. It probably identified DNA that "made sense otherwise." IMO MOO

(Snips from the article)
"... the ICCAA will be reimbursing Carroll County for about 40% of eligible defense costs for Allen’s trial, including fees for the defendant’s attorneys, investigators, experts, transcripts and depositions. Those expenses are eligible for reimbursement because Carroll County is a member of the commission, which helps local communities cover the cost of big murder trials like this one.

Now for the prosecutor:
(snips)
Most of that — $249,006 — is listed as attorney fees for several private lawyers hired to help the prosecutor, including Stacey Diener, James Luttrull, and Jackie Starbuck and her law firm.

The next biggest prosecutor expense reported by the auditor is $72,196 for a custom-designed multimedia podium with AV equipment that is being used in the Carroll County Circuit Court courtroom where Allen’s hearings and trial take place.
Other costs:

• $19,954 for computers and computer-related equipment
• $9,345 to pay for Richard Allen’s housing at two state prisons
• $7,500 for ballistics tool mark experts
• $5,000 for a copier
• $4,000 for a trial consultant
• $3,411 for depositions
• $63,308 for two walk-through metal detectors and an x-ray machine for the courthouse
• $15,535 for a gate that will be erected during the trial to limit access to the courthouse entrance used by the jury, judge and defendant
• $5,719 in rented fencing and barricades requested by the Carroll County sheriff’s office for pre-trial hearings

Comment on 13news legal analyst Katie Jackson-Lindsay
"She also took note of the $4,000 the Carroll County prosecutor spent to hire a trial consultant — a service more frequently utilized by defense attorneys who want to test the strength of various defense strategies and evidence they might present to a jury.
“That strikes me as odd because a prosecutor shouldn’t have multiple theories, and a prosecutor should be presenting all of the evidence,” Jackson-Lindsay told 13news."

Over $1 million has been spent on the Delphi murders trial; how much more will be spent?

Of the $1 million spent so far, $581,605 is considered expenses for Richard Allen’s defense.

www.wthr.com

NM is an inexperienced prosecutor of murder trials. It doesn't surprise me at all that over a quarter of a million dollars was spent on attorneys and a trial consultant to help him.

IMO MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

since these were investigative costs and the genetic genealogy expenses may be from very early on in the case, I am not confident those expenses mean the results of that testing revealed anything useful to the prosecution.

I mean what is genetic genealogy exactly? Is it DNA testing? Were they running some DNA found somewhere and looking for familial matches? Did that testing turn p a big nothing burger at the end of the day? shrug - I know nothing about this type of science.

It’s seeking familial matches. Just for the fact that genetic genealogy testing was sought at one time I think is good news considering (on and off) we’ve been given the impression useful DNA wasn’t recovered, beyond maybe a cat. JMO

 

[TTF14]

With only 6 shorts weeks until trial, I'm not sure she had a choice in the matter.

 

[gremlin444]

Greencastle IN, population is around 10,000 and is located in Putnam Co.; Putnamville Correctional Facility is located In Greencastle and so is Dr. Jessica Fidler.

Maybe there is a connection or maybe not.

https://health.usnews.com/doctors/jessica-fidler-1491984#expertise

Quick question: is there a related figure who was in Putnamville that I'm forgetting? Racking my brains.

I just checked, and Putnamville does have it's own health services onsite with services such as:
General Primary Care
Family Medicine
General Internal Medicine
Geriatrics
General Dentistry
General Mental Health Care
General Substance Use Disorder Treatment
Medication Assisted Treatment (MAT) Program
Opioid Treatment Program (OTP)

And where Dr. Fidler practices is a family health office as opposed to a an urgent care, so it's not like they would transport a prisoner to her for say, x-rays or some testing not available at Putnamville's medical facility.

Health Workforce Connector

connector.hrsa.gov

 

[ClearAhead]

I doubt it identified him. It probably identified DNA that "made sense otherwise." IMO MOO


NM is an inexperienced prosecutor of murder trials. It doesn't surprise me at all that over a quarter of a million dollars was spent on attorneys and a trial consultant to help him.

IMO MOO

Not chump change on the defense side either…considering getting RA moved to a county jail is really their only accomplishment )aside from getting reappointed to defend RA) at this point in time.

Over $1 million has been spent on the Delphi murders trial; how much more will be spent?

Of the $1 million spent so far, $581,605 is considered expenses for Richard Allen’s defense.

www.wthr.com

• $434,273 for legal fees and administrative expenses for five attorneys assisting in Allen’s defense
• $49,071 for at least seven separate experts and expert witnesses

 

[TTF14]

Not chump change here either…considering getting RA moved to a county jail is really their only accomplishment at this point in time.

• $434,273 for legal fees and administrative expenses for five attorneys assisting in Allen’s defense
• $49,071 for at least seven separate experts and expert witnesses

RA is the defendant. Is there a reason he shouldn't be entitled to a robust defense? And also not treated as a convicted prisoner when he's still presumed innocent?

IMO MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Quick question: is there a related figure who was in Putnamville that I'm forgetting? Racking my brains.

I just checked, and Putnamville does have it's own health services onsite with services such as:
General Primary Care
Family Medicine
General Internal Medicine
Geriatrics
General Dentistry
General Mental Health Care
General Substance Use Disorder Treatment
Medication Assisted Treatment (MAT) Program
Opioid Treatment Program (OTP)

And where Dr. Fidler practices is a family health office as opposed to a an urgent care, so it's not like they would transport a prisoner to her for say, x-rays or some testing not available at Putnamville's medical facility.

Health Workforce Connector

connector.hrsa.gov

I don't know who was in Putnamville Correctional.

As I stated it could be something or nothing but the fact they are both in the same small town was worth a look. I'm open to hearing other opinions as to why she was subpoenaed.
MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

RA is the defendant. Is there a reason he shouldn't be entitled to a robust defense? And also not treated as a convicted prisoner when he's still presumed innocent?

IMO MOO

It’s obvious the defense has also sought additional legal support so I don’t know, is the reason for that really due to inexperience?

NM’s role is to seek justice for Libby and Abby, the victims. They and their families are equally entitled to the conviction of the person responsible as RA is to his defense, as he is accused of the crimes. Whether he’s innocent or guilty won’t be known until the outcome of the trial. But with each passing day it’s not looking good for him IMO.

 

[TTF14]

When is Judge Gull going to rule on the SODDI defense? 30 days is Sunday by my calculations, so IMO. Is she going to stretch it to 32 days (Tuesday, after Labor Day) and risk and appeal or a "lazy judge" filing? JMO MOO And, if we're allowed to accuse the defense team of "playing games" can we say the same about the judge? JMO MOO What exactly is the hold up here?

IMO MOO

 

[Vern]

IMO, those expenses also include his (Prosecution's) own wages even though he's paid by the State.

As an employee of the government, when we got called out to assist in an Aide To Civil Power (Ice Storm, Forest Fires etc) our wages were billed to the municipality or province that utilized our 'labour' for the event even though we were salaried.

Nothing to see here IMO.

 

[Vern]

When is Judge Gull going to rule on the SODDI defense? 30 days is Sunday by my calculations, so IMO. Is she going to stretch it to 32 days (Tuesday, after Labor Day) and risk and appeal or a "lazy judge" filing? JMO MOO And, if we're allowed to accuse the defense team of "playing games" can we say the same about the judge? JMO MOO What exactly is the hold up here?

IMO MOO

I suspect that she has 30 days that begin ticking once both sides actually filed their written submissions.