Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #195

[sunshineray]

Agree. I've said I'd do awesome in solitary. But I highly doubt I'd do very well having barely any clothing, blankets, and people trying to extract a confession out of me 24/7 for months and months on end.

IMO MOO

There was nobody trying to extract anything from RA except to getting to stop harming himself. The judge ruled, after much consideration on the evidence shown her, that RA was not coerced by anyone and his depression and anxiety conditions did not play a role in his confessions, any of them. All his actions were monitored and his communications recorded, just like any other defendant under suicide watch and behind bars. It's been testified that RA was writing confession to the warden and even yelling them out to him as he made his rounds, hardly extracted from him. On his phone calls with family they were telling him to stop talking and confessing, hardly extracting anything from him. His doctor was telling him not to talk to her about confessing and to talk to his lawyers about it, hardly extracting it from him. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

I apologize.. I thought RA was only in high supervision and not actual solitary confinement even though I stated it that way. My error. That is a different case.

I thought it was illegal to have a prisoner in total solitary confinement for more than 15 days.

He wasn't alone, he had companion inmates, he also had use of a tablet to call out and contact family when he wanted. If a person is still in danger from themselves and others after 15 days do they just throw them to the wolves, themselves or others? I would think not. MO

 

[susiQ]

Just thinking. Seems very odd, 61+ confessions to who knows how many people in total, yet RA did not confess to his attorneys as well and seek to plead guilty? Any evidence of that? Surely Galipeau would have a record, yes? When RA wrote the letter to Galipeau and when Galipeau “heard” RA confess (no audio of course) would he not have immediately contacted R & B to have them come to speak to their client so that they could proceed toward a guilty plea and just get it over with? OR, was it a better look for Galipeau to just let it ride and see how many more random confessions they could get from a man that was obviously in great distress (eating paper and feces) just for good measure? There’s enough information in the public realm to paint a very disturbing picture of Westville under Galipeau and the influence of white supremest guards and inmates. JMO

In the words of a legal legend (in my mind), “As I have said, all coerced confessions are involuntary, but a confession can be involuntary without being coerced.” Michael Ausbrook

This isn’t over by a long shot. Just because JG gave her “opinion” regarding the confessions, it does not necessarily mean it will stand the test of time. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Sometimes I think about what it would be like to be locked up in my bathroom for the next 2 years. No place to sit except on a hard toilet, a prison mattress or the cold floor. Having someone watch me 24 hours a day. The noise I couldn't block out.

I would not do well, at all.

Should potentially dangerous accused child murderers be bailed and allowed to walk among the community? Maybe his lawyer's negligence played a role in his situation, delaying a speedy trial, asking for continuances, never having their client's mental health evaluated and treated properly? MO

 

[sunshineray]

Psychological torture? Psychotic break?

IMO MOO

Of what kind? Where has that been proven?

 

[sunshineray]

Why wouldn’t RA’s attourney’s have had RA undergo an independent mental health evaluation? It’s one thing to later allege RA was undergoing a psychotic break by having displayed photos of him in a dirty recreation shirt, but quite another to actually have done something at the time to support those allegations and showing they cared about the well-being of their client.

Instead the D did nothing and it’s too late now, the Judge has allowed the confessions to stand.

MOO

They did nothing

 

[sunshineray]

I personally have zero sympathy for him as he is only suffering from these circumstances because he killed two girls. This is all his own doing because he is twisted and sick and had to be protected due to the nature of the crime. If he has ended up injured because he had been attacked then people would also moan about that. In such cases LE are damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

IMO

I wonder how county jail is working out for him? A lot of coming and goings in jail, new people all the time. I hope the protection from harm/harming and mental health issues are being addressed sufficiently. MO

 

[sunshineray]

Maybe, RA did so many confessions, because he hoped, he would get out of his "bathroom" for some hours and would finally be questioned re his confessions. But nobody seemed to give it a special meaning. Understandably, if inmates/pretrial detainees do it all the time, again and again, for no apparent reason. MOO

I wonder how many times he outright confessed to his lawyers and their staff? Why would they be omitted from it? I'd think they were not, MO

 

[TTF14]

Should potentially dangerous accused child murderers be bailed and allowed to walk among the community?

rsbm

Literally nobody has suggested that.

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

I wonder how county jail is working out for him?

rsbm

Probably pretty good! He looked so much better at the last hearing now that he's being treated like a human.

IMO MOO

 

[Tealgrove]

I wonder how many times he outright confessed to his lawyers and their staff? Why would they be omitted from it? I'd think they were not, MO

IMO he probably has. I doubt his DT would be forthcoming with that information however.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Should potentially dangerous accused child murderers be bailed and allowed to walk among the community? Maybe his lawyer's negligence played a role in his situation, delaying a speedy trial, asking for continuances, never having their client's mental health evaluated and treated properly? MO

IMO
I don't believe they should be bailed out and never said it. I am adamantly opposed to sending a person who hasn't even had a trial yet to an Indiana state prison.

Rozzi and Baldwin were ready for trial until the judge took actions that prevented that and set the trial back for months. The P dragged his feet turning over discovery.

We can't have it both ways regarding his mental health. Either Westville was doing a good job of treating his mental issues and there was no need to go outside for more evaluation; or they weren't doing a good job and he shouldn't have been kept there.

He's now in a county jail; what changed?

 

[Arkay]

View attachment 528570

I personally have zero sympathy for him as he is only suffering from these circumstances because he killed two girls. This is all his own doing because he is twisted and sick and had to be protected due to the nature of the crime. If he has ended up injured because he had been attacked then people would also moan about that. In such cases LE are damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

IMO

In all candor, I also do not care if RA suffered in solitary confinement.

SOMEONE CONFINED Abby and Libby to a patch of woods, never to walk out of there again. IMO that is Richard Allen.

Not only do these side by side pictures look to me like the SAME GUY, but as we all know RA said he was on that bridge. Self-admitted to wearing a nearly identical outfit.

What are the odds? Realistically?

No one has said they saw another man, of similar appearance and similar apparel, on that bridge around that time. “Indiana men’s uniform” or no.

I don’t care if he was kept in wretched conditions. IMO they were within the Constitutional scope of not being cruel or unusual. He had access to a tablet and phone calls, food and drink and medical care.

If the jury finds him not guilty I will have to abide by that. If the jury finds that he had help, I will abide by that.

But I see the same man in both pictures, and I hope with all my heart that Abby’s courageous last act keeps her and Abby’s murderer locked up forever.

JMO

 

[TTF14]

In all candor, I also do not care if RA suffered in solitary confinement.

SOMEONE CONFINED Abby and Libby to a patch of woods, never to walk out of there again. IMO that is Richard Allen.

RSBM

But this is not just about RA. This is about all future pre-trial detainees who may or may not be guilty. JG gave the green light for the entire state of Indiana to house pre-trial (presumed innocent) detainees any way the State of Indiana wishes IMO. And without even being represented by an attorney IMO MOO JMO.

The precedent has been set and even, shockingly, championed! Not OK, IMO. Not even a little bit.

JMO MOO

 

[DoctorRose]

While I am confident that the state has substantial evidence against RA, until I actually know what that is, I’m not feeling strongly either way about his guilt. If he’s not guilty and if the evidence is somehow not as strong as I expect it to be, then yeah his being held this long like this will have been wrong imo. I know I’d lose my sanity in that situation too. And if he is guilty then I don’t feel bad for him being held but we’ll only know that in retrospect.

So yeah it’s weird. Is it the PCA that states why he was arrested? Or which documentation is it? I don’t know where that line is to hold someone on suspicion like how sure do you have to be? JMO and rambling thoughts.

 

[Vern]

Pre-Trial Detainees and their being held within State Prisons in Indiana for "Safekeeping" purposes (Administrative custody vs. "Solitary Confinement). (Indiana is not the only State that allows for this either):

Lock v. Jenkins, 464 F. Supp. 541 (N.D. Ind. 1978)​

Lock v. Jenkins, 464 F. Supp. 541 (N.D. Ind. 1978) case opinion from the US District Court for the Northern District of Indiana

law.justia.com

I like that the link provides the law and the description of those Pre-Trial Detainees, their conditions etc while being held at State facilities.

As well, as per the MS Three Day hearings, it was testified to under oath that RA was also afforded other accomodations during his pre-trial detention at State. For example: he was afforded family visits in a private room (with one staff present for security purposes) for longer visitations than were afforded to convicted prisoners. He had the tablet, until he broke his, from which he could communicate and call anyone at any time etc ... He certainly was not held in Solitary Confinement.

 

[TTF14]

Pre-Trial Detainees and their being held within State Prisons in Indiana for "Safekeeping" purposes (Administrative custody vs. "Solitary Confinement):

rsbm

Respectfully, just because it was a "safekeeping" order doesn't mean he was "kept safe" (health, well, etc.) Or, IMO, that it was even the real reason. JMO IMO MOO

He seems to be doing just fine in jail, as we predicted he would all along. No need for "safekeeping" (LOL considering how he was treated!). JMO MOO IMO

 

[Vern]

RSBM

But this is not just about RA. This is about all future pre-trial detainees who may or may not be guilty. JG gave the green light for the entire state of Indiana to house pre-trial (presumed innocent) detainees any way the State of Indiana wishes IMO. And without even being represented by an attorney IMO MOO JMO.

The precedent has been set and even, shockingly, championed! Not OK, IMO. Not even a little bit.

JMO MOO

RA is not the precedent however "that has even been championed". He is neither the first nor, presumably, will he be the last. Other states also allow for Safekeeping at State Prison for Pre-Trial Detainees.

Lock v. Jenkins, 464 F. Supp. 541 (N.D. Ind. 1978)

Lock v. Jenkins, 464 F. Supp. 541 (N.D. Ind. 1978) case opinion from the US District Court for the Northern District of Indiana

law.justia.com

 

[statt#1]

The following is all my opinion. All of it.

I don't know ISP Carter, but have watched video of him on numerous occasions. I'd bet my entire rock collection that man, if he was aware of another perp who participated in these murders, who was at the scene, or a group of perps in collusion, I'd bet D. Carter along with those LE folk who are/were involved in this investigation, and even LE who have come on board in the past 7 years, would be all over that.

The thing is though, the reality is, they've arrested and charged only one man.

Am I to believe this one man's accomplice(s), who was/were supposedly there on the day of the murders, who was/were at the crime scene that very day, who participated in these murders, have been left off the hook?

And lastly, for now , there is no way I'll ever buy in to the idea that RA was tortured. The word torture is a powerful word, to accuse another of engaging in torture is a serious matter, IMO. The fact that the very Judge in this case hasn't mentioned the word torture, in fact has ruled otherwise in terms of coercion and unfair treatment, IMO, should remove the idea of torture from discussion.

RA was locked up in a secure facility to keep his butt alive, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[TTF14]

RA is not the precedent however. He is neither the first nor, presumably, will he be the last. Other states also allow for Safekeeping at State Prison for Pre-Trial Detainees.

Lock v. Jenkins, 464 F. Supp. 541 (N.D. Ind. 1978)

Lock v. Jenkins, 464 F. Supp. 541 (N.D. Ind. 1978) case opinion from the US District Court for the Northern District of Indiana

law.justia.com

Is a "precedent" only the first and only the only?

It doesn't make it right.

IMO MOO