Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #195

[ClearAhead]

First question didn't get the desired response, but this leading question did.

IMO MOO

Yes but what’s most important is the actual trial, and Harshman’s opinion of the value of the confessions likely won’t be the focus. The Jury will be able to view the transcripts of all the confessions for themselves, if not hear those that’ve been recorded. But if an ISP investigator views them as significant, IMO the jury will be horrified. MOO

 

[katydid23]

That's quite a click-baity headline. He wanted to be able to talk to his wife in private, not engage in "physical intimacy." Having never been held in maximum security prison (as a presumed innocent man) before, RA likely had no clue that was a no-no.

IMO MOO

You cannot allow a murder suspect to speak privately with their spouse. Many reasons, for example: "honey, please go to garage and secretly throw out my muddy boots which are under the spare tire." OR "Honey, please remember I was with you at home all day on the 13th, we took a nap and then made lasagna. remember>?"

 

[TTF14]

You cannot allow a murder suspect to speak privately with their spouse. Many reasons, for example: "honey, please go to garage and secretly throw out my muddy boots which are under the spare tire." OR "Honey, please remember I was with you at home all day on the 13th, we took a nap and then made lasagna. remember>?"

I know.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I read Harshman's testimony just this morning actually. One thing I noted: in line 3 on Cross Examination, he stated he had not been aware of these patches. Then in line 11 / 12 admits that there was some talk of somebody having patches. He also stated that he got text messages when RA had made a call - but then tried later to say that he did not think anything was funneled to him pretty quickly even though he received a text as soon as RA had made a call (lines 12-16 of Cross)... I also noticed he did not definitely say that RA made statements only the killer would know - he said "I believe that's correct, yes" (line 6-14 of the cross). He apparently didn't have his notes with him so there were also things he said he couldn't recall, or wasn't certain of (paraphrasing here). I just wondered, why didn't he bring his notes to court?

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Oh, but there’s much more there.

 

[vinayd]

Harshman has eluded that there will be way more confessions by trial. He still had more to listen to. Keep in mind the 61 are detailed enough to count for trial. There were others. At this time Richard Allen is on trial.

At one time I said I would dread the day the thread was updated to remove the the girl's name. Now, I can't wait. The State of Indiana vs Richard M. Allen.

 

[ClearAhead]

Source: also from the Day 3 link above.

 

[photographer4]

IMO, I'm not seeing any reasonable doubt. Zilch.

There's a reason those items were being specificly sought in the search warrants that were executed on at least two individuals investigated as part of this case.

Combine that with the FGG etc ... maybe it's just me. But that kind of 'stuff' actually gets done on purpose and to do FGG one does need DNA. There's DNA IMO no matter how one wants to slice it.

I'm very intrigued to find out who it belongs to and whether it was left at the scene or whether it was found in his residence. IMO, I suspect that "hair" and "animal hair" was found at the scene of the crime because the search warrant "seeks" it in their searches. They would be asking for it because they have something to compare it to IMO. And, the other household members were away from the home when the crime occurred so they are off the list of 'suspect'. They are alibied while RA is still on that bridge.

#Justice for Abby & Libby.

What is FGG?

 

[photographer4]

Lines 2 to 14 on page 11 of Detective Harshman's testimony at the hearings, he says RA spoke direct confessions with specificity more than 60+ times. That's valid information.

The man also listened to all 600+ phones calls made by RA and watched a multitude of videos, read texts and sheets of comments guards and companion inmates noted. I think he may be the most knowledgable on the subject of RA's confessions and their credibility. Of course that's just my opinion.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/delphi-3-day-hearing-dectective-brian-harshman-testimony-pdf.529492/

Yes, but he didn't disclose / wasn't asked what the specifics of those "confessions" were or who says he made them? I think he only excluded the inmate companions from the list of people he was talking about, but I'm not 100% on that so pls do not quote me and MOOOO. We also weren't told whether the statements were made before or after he got disclosure. Imo possible he saw / read something in the disclosure only the killer would know and that may have formed the basis of his "confessions". To me, people saying he made incriminating statements simply is not good enough - I want to know what he said, to whom, when, in what exact context and what else was going on at the time (eg: how was his mental health? Meds? Had they just been changed or dose changed? Etc etc). I want very specific info, not just a he said things.... Surely that will come at trial.

 

[photographer4]

Oh, but there’s much more there.

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Fair. And then the D pointed out he also made statements that were not incriminating, and that he felt that he was experiencing mental torture etc.... Seems like there are two sides to the story here. What the Prosecutions wants the court to believe and what the Defense wants people to believe. Either side has a decent shot at swaying a juror imo...

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[Seattle1]

Question about this: the D stated there was no dna found in the search warrant to connect RA to murders - would that not include AW's hairband thing? DocumentCloud (P.129)

"V- Richard Allen has no ties to Odinism or any Religious Cult and has no ties to the crime scene. Tony Liggett has testified under oath that there is no DNA linking Richard Allen to the crime scene.184 Liggett further has testified that he is unaware of anything that links Richard to the crime through his phone, computers or electronics.185 Liggett has further testified that he is unaware of any evidence that links Richard Allen to any weird religious cult group.186 Jerry Holeman has testified to the following: There is no DNA linking Richard Allen to the crime scene.187 No data extracted from Richard Allen’s phone connects him to the murders.188 No data extracted from Libby’s phone connected Richard the murders.189 There is no evidence that Richard Allen is or was connected to any other suspects in the case.190 There is no evidence found on social media that connects Richard Allen to the murders.191 There is no evidence extracted from Richard Allen’s computers that connects him to the murders.192 There is no fingerprint evidence that connects Richard Allen to the murders.193 This section is very short, because there is simply no evidence linking Richard Allen to the murders. However, in his Affidavit for Search Warrant, Liggett attempted to drum up as much connectivity as he could muster between Richard Allen and the murders to convince Judge Diener"

So that hairband could be anybody's - likely one of the ladies in the home owned it imo. I also note, the above footnotes in the quote reference the following:

184 Liggett depo. p. 80, lines 1-3. 185 Liggett depo. p. 80, lines 9-12. 186 Liggett depo. p. 80, lines 13-25 187 Holeman depo. p. 40, lines 14-19. 188 Holeman depo. p. 48, lines 20-25 and p. 49, lines 1-4. 189 Holeman depo. p. 50, lines 13-16. 190 Holeman depo. p. 51, lines 6-8. 191 Holeman depo. p. 53, lines 1-13. 192 Holeman depo. p. 57, lines 19-25 and p. 58, lines 1-4. 193 Holeman depo. p. 58, lines 1-20.p. 130

I do not think the D made the statements up if they took them from depositions of the named investigators. MOOO

Apples to apples...

Delphi prosecutors slam defense's theory that victims were 'ritualistically sacrificed'

Prosecutors in the case against accused Delphi murderer Richard Allen slammed the defense's latest theory that the victims were "ritualistically sacrificed" by a pagan cult.

lawandcrime.com

9/25/23

“The Defense has filed its 136-page Memorandum in Support of the Franks hearing in which only 13 pages refers to any allegations relevant to the question of a Franks inquiry,” prosecutors wrote. “The remaining 90% of the Memorandum outlines its fanciful defense for social media to devour.”

According to prosecutors, allowing the defense team to “grandstand on camera about the imagined bad motives of the State actors” and to attack the credibility of investigators do “nothing to increase public confidence in the system.”

[..]

In a separate motion opposing a Franks hearing, also filed this week, prosecutors specifically pushed back against the defense team’s allegation that the warrant executed on Allen’s home in October 2022 was obtained through intentional or reckless lying by law enforcement.

That document states that Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett unequivocally “did not intentionally or recklessly omit evidence or lie about evidence in the probable cause affidavit to support the search warrant.” In fact, prosecutors say that much of the critical evidence bolstering the case against Allen came from interviews with witnesses, including Allen himself, who they say confirmed he “was in fact on the trails the day the [the victims] went missing.”

Allen is facing two counts of murder in the twin 2017 slayings of 13-year-old Abby and 14-year-old Libby, whose bodies were discovered in a wooded area just off of the Delphi Historic Trails system.

 

[photographer4]

Harshman has eluded that there will be way more confessions by trial. He still had more to listen to. Keep in mind the 61 are detailed enough to count for trial. There were others. At this time Richard Allen is on trial.

At one time I said I would dread the day the thread was updated to remove the the girl's name. Now, I can't wait. The State of Indiana vs Richard M. Allen.

What I understood was that he was up to date on the phone calls, not so up to date on transporation videos...I didn't see where he alluded to there being more confessions by trial but I only read it once pre coffee so maybe I missed it.... Adobe Acrobat

 

[photographer4]

Source: also from the Day 3 link above.
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I thought it was interesting to note that Harshman also noted that the officers are not stupid, they're aware of cameras in their faces etc....

 

[somequestions]

Didn't his wife state that he still had a blue jacket?

My hope is RA kept the jacket that he wore that day and fibers from it connect that jacket to the crime scene/victims.

Yes, and there is some video of him wearing the blue jacket taken by his wife. I think the blue jacket Richard Allen owned is a Carhartt jacket?

Why did he not get rid of it? If you ask this question the theory people come up with is Richard Allen did get rid of the blue jacket and then got a new one to replace it. That is possible, but if you are a detective you would try to establish through some type of identification of this blue jacket(if it was taken during the search of his home) when it could possibly have been made and sold.

If the blue jacket has some type of serial number identification that shows it was purchased before February 13, 2017, I am sure it would be of interest to investigators if it still held any forensic value.

 

[Seattle1]

IMO, same chapter, different verse (i.e., geofencing).

April 2024 -- State's response to the Defense's 3rd Motion for Franks Hearing:

"The State has reviewed... and believes the defense has misstated the facts in the motion and would respectfully request the Court deny the motion without a hearing."




May 17, 2024 -- STATE’S RESPONSE TO DEFENSE’S 4TH MOTION FOR FRANKS HEARING:

That, as in the previous three Franks’ motions filed by the Defense, this fourth motion illustrates a complete misunderstanding of the ruling in Franks v. Delaware, 438 U.S. 154 (1978) and the purpose of a Franks’ challenge to a search warrant. The Defense makes the same allegations in this motion as it has in its’ previous three motions, that Sherriff Tony Liggett failed to advise the Judge of material facts and that without these omissions, the search warrant would not have been issued. The Defense consistently in the three previous Franks’ motion have misstated and mischaracterized facts surrounding this case. That trend continues in this most recent Franks’ motion.

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[steeltowngirl]

Fair. And then the D pointed out he also made statements that were not incriminating, and that he felt that he was experiencing mental torture etc.... Seems like there are two sides to the story here. What the Prosecutions wants the court to believe and what the Defense wants people to believe. Either side has a decent shot at swaying a juror imo...

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Keep in mind that it will take swaying an entire jury of 12 to reach either a conviction or an acquittal.

 

[somequestions]

I will be absolutely shocked if the State does that.

Why if you knew you had a uniquely short man would you not release that information to the public since height and weight are usually on the posters anyway? LE would know someone who understood angles and light might be able to figure it out from the video anyway although I have never heard anyone ever did figure out the height of the man in Liberty German's video.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I wonder what Scremin and Lebrato had in their Franks Memo that the judge was willing to set a hearing for them.

 

[vinayd]

What I understood was that he was up to date on the phone calls, not so up to date on transporation videos...I didn't see where he alluded to there being more confessions by trial but I only read it once pre coffee so maybe I missed it.... Adobe Acrobat

This is the context I am using:

 

[somequestions]

MOO in my opinion RA looks just like the photo.
And matches the initial wanted poster in weight and height.

I had a question since I have not looked closely at any of the wanted posters.

Did LE figure out his height correctly from the video and that is what is typed on the posters?

 

[rebelchild]

He also said that Abby was never disrobed completely, that her two bras, sleeveless shirt and large sweatshirt were most likely never off...by the lack of blood evidence on those items. Her jeans/underpants/socks and shoes are not mentioned. Libby's pants are mentioned and one of Libby's shoes, which her phone was under and it under Abby. That leads me to believe the killer may have redressed Abby in Libby's pants after death.

I'm sure there are certainly things about the crime scene that LE has kept under wraps. Then there's been some, in my mind, bizarre suppositions about the scene made in the FMs. <modsnip: No MSM or other approved source to support information stated as fact>

bbm .. this is what I think too. After reading the description of blood flow on AW on page 17 line 8.