Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #195

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TTF14 said:
I was looking for the exact wording @iamshadow21 posted, which includes the word "maybe." I wanted to read the context. It's impossible to know, though, from this transcript whether Harshman meant "RA maybe said...." or "RA said 'maybe'..."

We'll have to wait for trial.

IMO MOO
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If Harshman had said RA used the words ‘definitely killed’ Abby, some people would say he was embellishing or misunderstanding. If RA was captured on audio, or in his own writing, using the word ‘definitely’, some people would say it was due to his psychotic break from prison torture.

Yet, here we are, searching for the word ‘maybe’. Interpretation of RA’s admissions seem to only become meaningful when they favor defense theories.

jmo
 
steeltowngirl said:
If Harshman had said RA used the words ‘definitely killed’ Abby, some people would say he was embellishing or misunderstanding. If RA was captured on audio, or in his own writing, using the word ‘definitely’, some people would say it was due to his psychotic break from prison torture.

Yet, here we are, searching for the word ‘maybe’. Interpretation of RA’s admissions seem to only become meaningful when they favor defense theories.

jmo
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Harshman was under oath so words matter. IMO
 
Vern said:
I agree.

So were Wala, Holman, Cecil, Cicero et al and their words actually matter too.
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IMO
Their words matter when stated as fact. He seemed truthful in that "maybe" reply.
If it's an opinion, then I weigh it.
 
Vern said:
IMO of course he doesn't testify to what Allen stated "was the motive" --- that is exactly the kind of item that is kept for trial.

Abby and Libby will have their day(s) in court soon. Thankfully. Finally.
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During NM rebuttal at some point in the hearings he asks a witness something to the effect of, "What if they ended up being murdered before that (SA) could happen?" Can't remember which witness atm. Maybe Dr.PM. If anyone has the link to that excerpt will you please post it? Thanks.
 
<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

I thought this statement by the Judge was interesting. Is she attributing RA’s ‘voluntary statements’ (aka confessions) to his diagnosis of MDD and anxiety disorders in a backward sort of way? While his mental health conditions didn’t prevent his confessions, could’ve the confessions been the result of his mental health? Certainly I say IMO.

I’m going on from there to believe his mental state was directly involved in his motive to murder. But as with most murderers, it doesn’t justify an insanity defense. Just my opinion…

“The Court is not persuaded that the detention caused the defendant to make incriminating statements,” Gull wrote. “While the defendant does suffer from major depressive disorder and anxiety, those are not serious mental illnesses that prevent the defendant from making voluntary statements.”
 
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ClearAhead said:
I thought this statement by the Judge was interesting. Is she attributing RA’s ‘voluntary statements’ (aka confessions) to his diagnosis of MDD and anxiety disorders in a backward sort of way? If his conditions didn’t prevent it, could’ve it been the result of it?

I’m going on from there to believe his mental state was directly involved in his motive to murder. But as with most murderers, it doesn’t justify an insanity defense. Just my opinion…

“The Court is not persuaded that the detention caused the defendant to make incriminating statements,” Gull wrote. “While the defendant does suffer from major depressive disorder and anxiety, those are not serious mental illnesses that prevent the defendant from making voluntary statements.”
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I personally find her dismissiveness about mental health challenges offensive.

IMO MOO
 
TTF14 said:
I personally find her dismissiveness about mental health challenges offensive.

IMO MOO
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Well she wouldn’t have said it if it wasn’t a FACT. Regardless of who murdered Libby and Abby, there obviously was severe mental health issues involved. Any murder, for that matter.

ETA: I wonder to what extent RA’s wife and mother might have ignored or otherwise covered up RA’s mental health challenges, in the same way they tried to scoff off his confessions? Was he receiving regular mental health care prior to Feb, 2017? We don’t know.
 
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ClearAhead said:
I thought this statement by the Judge was interesting. Is she attributing RA’s ‘voluntary statements’ (aka confessions) to his diagnosis of MDD and anxiety disorders in a backward sort of way? While his mental health conditions didn’t prevent his confessions, could’ve the confessions been the result of his mental health? Certainly I say IMO.

I’m going on from there to believe his mental state was directly involved in his motive to murder. But as with most murderers, it doesn’t justify an insanity defense. Just my opinion…

“The Court is not persuaded that the detention caused the defendant to make incriminating statements,” Gull wrote. “While the defendant does suffer from major depressive disorder and anxiety, those are not serious mental illnesses that prevent the defendant from making voluntary statements.”
Click to expand...

I didn't take her ruling in that way. I took her statement to mean, while it may be true that RA had been diagnosed with anxiety and major depressive order prior to his being in custody, those aren't serious mental illnesses and therefore would not indicate that any statements he made while housed at prison were anything other than voluntary on his part.

nothing more or less, JMO
 
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ClearAhead said:
Well she wouldn’t have said it if it wasn’t a FACT. Regardless of who murdered Libby and Abby, there obviously was severe mental health issues involved. Any murder, for that matter.
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Perfectly sane people kill every day for any number of reasons.

Mentally ill people are more likely to be victims of violent crimes than commit them.

You can certainly call all murderers depraved, cruel, callous, or sadistic, but you can't collectively call them mentally ill.

MOO
 
FrostedGlass said:
IMO
Their words matter when stated as fact. He seemed truthful in that "maybe" reply.
If it's an opinion, then I weigh it.
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“Maybe” doesn’t always signify confusion regarding facts. It often expresses that a concession is reluctant, grudging, painful.

Had I knowingly, willfully cut AW’s throat, I would not be unsure of what I had done. I would certainly be deeply ashamed and paranoid with fear. It would be hard to acknowledge.
 
shonyakay said:
During NM rebuttal at some point in the hearings he asks a witness something to the effect of, "What if they ended up being murdered before that (SA) could happen?" Can't remember which witness atm. Maybe Dr.PM. If anyone has the link to that excerpt will you please post it? Thanks.
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you are correct, it was Perlmutter NM asked about SA of victims and whether that would factor into her interpretation of the crime scene during his cross.

see Permutter's testimony transcript from Aug 1. linked in this post
www.websleuths.com

Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #195

ETA this is a pdf download so not what you asked for. Leaving it stand as it’s easy to download though. Yes thank you steeltowngirl, that's the pdf download link for Harshman, I guess his transcript is not published on scribd site yet?
www.websleuths.com www.websleuths.com

ETA page 57, lines 23 thru page 58 line 19
 
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