Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #195

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Why does this not surprise me?


CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. – In a move that could jeopardize the October start date for the Delphi murders trial, Richard Allen’s defense has signaled they want the Indiana Court of Appeals to overturn Special Judge Fran Gull’s decision barring them from presenting its Odinisim theory in court.

...


Updated: Sep 10, 2024 / 10:25 AM EDT


It’s amazing to me that they are so awful at their job. If only they had actually done their job the first time and presented evidence of what they are claiming at the 3 day hearing.

But they have nothing but rumors and hear-say and it was rightly dismissed.

moo
 
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Why does this not surprise me?


CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. – In a move that could jeopardize the October start date for the Delphi murders trial, Richard Allen’s defense has signaled they want the Indiana Court of Appeals to overturn Special Judge Fran Gull’s decision barring them from presenting its Odinisim theory in court.

...


Updated: Sep 10, 2024 / 10:25 AM EDT
not at all shocked. Disappointing but expected IMO. Rinse Lather Repeat. Shrug. Tick Tock.

ETA, the ruling they want overturned extended the ability to present compelling allowable evidence to make their case before JG should they have any. Rather than do that they have filed an appeal to have her ruling overturned. While I get that some of this is gamesmanship to establish things for a future appeal, IMO, if they had any allowable evidence they would have presented it in the 3 day hearing, or would have requested an opportunity to present it post adverse ruling.

The fact they haven't suggests to me they have none. The judge ruled properly IMO, so this newest appeal will not succeed and then will come another request to extend the trial date out because - unprepared.

very frustrating to watch it all unfold.
 
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Now they want to waste more time. No judge who sits on a righteous seat would entertain anything they bring to the table. If the higher court even takes it, it will also be denied.


Of course but they are clearly not ready for trial yet again so it’s all about delaying time and time again.

The only bonus is RA is still locked away and won’t be able to harm another child while his team mess up time and time again.

MOOO
 
That is kinda how I feel about the girls really - they have to be the most unlucky kids in the state if not the entire country that day to be walking a basic trail in broad daylight, and meet their killer on the that trail. Incredibly awful and incredibly unlucky. I wonder if we will ever know if RA is the real killer or if he played some role in all of this? I wonder if we will ever know if this was truly random, or if there was some plan in place that day. :(
Unfortunately females and children are preyed upon disproportionately in our world. </3
 
IMO

Clearly, the defense attorneys are making a record in case he's found guilty. They are laying a solid foundation for the appellate attorneys. As @AugustWest pointed out, if it's not done in the lower court, they can't take it to the higher courts.

If it's true, as many here think, the defense has no case, then they are doing a very good job of working with what they have.
 
not at all shocked. Disappointing but expected IMO. Rinse Lather Repeat. Shrug. Tick Tock.

ETA, the ruling they want overturned extended the ability to present compelling allowable evidence to make their case before JG should they have any. Rather than do that they have filed an appeal to have her ruling overturned. While I get that some of this is gamesmanship to establish things for a future appeal, IMO, if they had any allowable evidence they would have presented it in the 3 day hearing, or would have requested an opportunity to present it post adverse ruling.

The fact they haven't suggests to me they have none. The judge ruled properly IMO, so this newest appeal will not succeed and then will come another request to extend the trial date out because - unprepared.

very frustrating to watch it all unfold.
It's not gamesmanship. This appeal is simply doing the job they were hired for. If they hadn't raised this issue, it would be waived. If they make a screw up like that, it is ineffective assistance of counsel. People should not be surprised by this at all, nor should they think negatively of them for it. I know people will; they are darned if they do/don't. I only post this so that maybe just one person out there will understand this is what our judicial system looks like.
 
It's not gamesmanship. This appeal is simply doing the job they were hired for. If they hadn't raised this issue, it would be waived. If they make a screw up like that, it is ineffective assistance of counsel. People should not be surprised by this at all, nor should they think negatively of them for it. I know people will; they are darned if they do/don't. I only post this so that maybe just one person out there will understand this is what our judicial system looks like.


I will openly admit I judge them because they had a chance to present their evidence in a 3 day hearing and fell flat on their faces as they have absolutely no proof of anything they are claiming.

MOOOOOO
 
I will openly admit I judge them because they had a chance to present their evidence in a 3 day hearing and fell flat on their faces as they have absolutely no proof of anything they are claiming.

MOOOOOO
Yes I am judging them as wasting time as they haven't presented a nexus or any shred of evidence. They won't be presenting it to a higher court either. I appreciate the judicial system, I don't appreciate this defense team.
 
It's not gamesmanship. This appeal is simply doing the job they were hired for. If they hadn't raised this issue, it would be waived. If they make a screw up like that, it is ineffective assistance of counsel. People should not be surprised by this at all, nor should they think negatively of them for it. I know people will; they are darned if they do/don't. I only post this so that maybe just one person out there will understand this is what our judicial system looks like.
I do understand your point. And perhaps gamesmanship is not a word you would choose, but it is mine. They could remedy the situation by providing allowable evidence rather than hearsay, conjecture and speculation. Also just my opinion.

I have developed a personal distaste for this specific defense team and I freely admit it biases me.
 
I do understand your point. And perhaps gamesmanship is not a word you would choose, but it is mine. They could remedy the situation by providing allowable evidence rather than hearsay, conjecture and speculation. Also just my opinion.

I have developed a personal distaste for this specific defense team and I freely admit it biases me.


Don’t worry you are not alone :D
 
not at all shocked. Disappointing but expected IMO. Rinse Lather Repeat. Shrug. Tick Tock.

ETA, the ruling they want overturned extended the ability to present compelling allowable evidence to make their case before JG should they have any. Rather than do that they have filed an appeal to have her ruling overturned. While I get that some of this is gamesmanship to establish things for a future appeal, IMO, if they had any allowable evidence they would have presented it in the 3 day hearing, or would have requested an opportunity to present it post adverse ruling.

The fact they haven't suggests to me they have none. The judge ruled properly IMO, so this newest appeal will not succeed and then will come another request to extend the trial date out because - unprepared.

very frustrating to watch it all unfold.
So fustrating. Can you imagine how the families of these girls' feel? Justice delayed, is Justice denied.
 
I only post this so that maybe just one person out there will understand this is what our judicial system looks like.

I genuinely appreciate your input as an attorney.

I see what we always see…a tug-of-war between the defense and the prosecution.

But in this specific case, what is the rope that’s being yanked by both sides?

In this PARTICULAR case, not in every case, as a layperson I see facts, evidence, rule of law on one side, and fanciful narrative on the other with no concrete factual evidence that can be admitted.

I agree with you of course, the D must do everything within their power to get their client out of trouble. Where is something demonstrable that will undergird their push to overturn the judge’s ruling?

As I see it, the D had many flaws in their version of what happened. Their story conflicted with the physical evidence (scant blood at the scene, girls hung upside down, an F rune).

I thought JG was the one who had come to the playground and said “playtime is over.” I’m content to have the appellate court do that, if necessary.

Yet this is unbearable for the girls’ families who are still awaiting justice.

All JM layperson’s O.
 
It’s amazing to me that they are so awful at their job. If only they had actually done their job the first time and presented evidence of what they are claiming at the 3 day hearing.

But they have nothing but rumors and hear-say and it was rightly dismissed.

moo

Maybe an assured income stream?

This case demonstrates that people facing criminal charges who have been diligent savers all their lives are disadvantaged when it comes to the legal system. How much ‘defense’ is affordable? Better to be an indigent criminal approved for court appointed attorneys with unlimited financial resources who can potentially delay a conviction for years. MOO
 
<modsnip - quoted post was snarky. The word nexus was used by the judge in her ruling about other suspects and Odinism>


A connection.

“In an order issued on Sept. 4, the judge said “the burden is on the defense to show a nexus” between the other suspects, Odinism, and the murders.”
 
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I genuinely appreciate your input as an attorney.

I see what we always see…a tug-of-war between the defense and the prosecution.

But in this specific case, what is the rope that’s being yanked by both sides?

In this PARTICULAR case, not in every case, as a layperson I see facts, evidence, rule of law on one side, and fanciful narrative on the other with no concrete factual evidence that can be admitted.

I agree with you of course, the D must do everything within their power to get their client out of trouble. Where is something demonstrable that will undergird their push to overturn the judge’s ruling?

As I see it, the D had many flaws in their version of what happened. Their story conflicted with the physical evidence (scant blood at the scene, girls hung upside down, an F rune).

I thought JG was the one who had come to the playground and said “playtime is over.” I’m content to have the appellate court do that, if necessary.

Yet this is unbearable for the girls’ families who are still awaiting justice.

All JM layperson’s O.
@Arkay Good post! Thanks for your candor and kindness.

On the instant decisions, the two last decided by Gull, one side lays out the law favorable to them, the other lays out the law favorable to them. Neither issue has a black and white law, codified like a statute. It is common law, and thus requires interpretation. That is why I asked @vinayd "what constitutes nexus?" The answer to that question governs one of the decisions. Lawyers (and I am including Gull, as she is one) often disagree. We have an adversarial system, and that is just the way it is.

In making your decision above, you mention lack of blood at the scene, girls hung upside down, F runes. So you accept the version of the State's witnesses. That is fine, but it is the jury's job to weigh evidence and determine fact, not the judge. The judge determines points of law.

There are certain points I agree on in Judge Gull's ruling, and in others I don't. That's fine, and our rules allow for attorneys that disagree to get another opinion, thus appeals.

I agree it is unbearable for the girls' families. No one can bring them back. It's a terrible thing. This isn't disputed. But RA represents every man and woman in this country (at least Indiana) who faces trial. He should be considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Imprisoning any man or woman for two years pre-trial in a prison (not jail) prior to having counsel, not allowing them counsel of their choice, not allowing them to put forth a defense, is unacceptable to me. In my opinion, it's not a search for truth anymore. I want to know what really, actually happened that day on the bridge. Not what the prosecution tells me, not what the defense tells me, not what the judge tells me, but what the evidence tells me. And I can't discern the truth when evidence is withheld for my consideration.
 
What evidence is being withheld exactly?

There is no evidence Odins did it and the 3 day hearing proved that.

That is why Judge Gull made the ruling as the defense failed to provide any evidence of what they claiming. They need evidence and they don’t have any.

moo
 
P
If she grants the motion, then first the defense would file the appeal with the Appellate Court. If the Appellate Court accepted, they would make the decision on the issues regarding third party and the exclusion of the confessions. They would make a determination on their own, then order Judge Gull to comply with their order/decision.
Personally, I feel it highly unlikely that she will grant the motion. Who are we kidding here? There’s a pattern and she’s not about to break the mold now. She will likely let the 30 days expire which equals “DENIED.” I’m sure the defense anticipate the same :).JMHO
 
What evidence is being withheld exactly?

There is no evidence Odins did it and the 3 day hearing proved that.

That is why Judge Gull made the ruling as the defense failed to provide any evidence of what they claiming. They need evidence and they don’t have any.

moo
We can't talk about it, but I have linked a motion for you below that specifically states what will be excluded.

First, you must read the State's Motion in Limine:


Then, the Judge's ruling on the motion:
1725997433436.png
 
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