Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #196

[Vern]

Nobody really knew what all Libby had captured on her cell phone except LE. We were all still debating what it may have contained before the recent hearings.

Can't wait for trial. My hope is he kept an item of clothing he wore that day and it can be connected to the crime scene through fibers.

They've absolutely got evidence to connect him.

- 11 000 tips in the first month;
- thousands of interviews;
- a tonne of (often murderous) individuals investigated and ruled out (just see the earlier threads here on the site to see the sheer volume of them (that's BG!!) over the years; but
- just one guy ever charged.

There's a reason for that; that reason is evidence that links that one guy to the actual crime and did not link any of the multitudes of others to the crime.

I can't wait for the trial to begin.

 

[Ravenmoon]

My remark wasn’t an “excuse” -it was an actual question. It’s a shame you can’t appreciate that there is an actual science to the investigation of stomach contents that would include the same question. I’d wager the investigators have asked the Patty’s the same thing at some point - what did they eat last, and at what time. The link I posted made it pretty clear that this information can be important to know when trying to determine the PMI.

JMO,

The coroner or ME will have the knowledge necessary to determine as accurate as possible time of death.

Reading articles is good and can be helpful for those of us that have limited to no education or experience in this particular science, but it won't make any of us experts.

I look forward to expert testimony.

The professionals know what they know, and any debate about this issue can't and won't change facts

JMO

 

[Soulmagent]

I am pretty sure they can directly connect him to the crime ..even if they cant , and lets say they found his deceased pets DNA all over the crime scene ,but the cat died before the crime happened ?
Could he have invited the real murder to his cat viewing ? I dunno . I reasonably doubt it. Pretty clear evidence I think . We really dont know what they do ..

 

[FrostedGlass]

Like has been discussed, sometimes people can have more than one jacket of the same kind because they really like the fit/style. In six years RA could have gotten a new one exactly like the old one. Looking in the fire pit after 6 six years is a shot in the dark but sometimes garments like jackets or jeans have specialized metal zippers and tabs or metal buttons that could survive many fires. AJMO

Ok, I'll re-think this.

They entered his home for the search. The gun stuff was the first item of interest and then they went for the blue jacket. However, the jacket wasn't "the" jacket so they went digging up the firepit in search of the one he might have burned up years ago.

I'll wait for evidence.

 

[Soulmagent]

Ok, I'll re-think this.

They entered his home for the search. The gun stuff was the first item of interest and then they went for the blue jacket. However, the jacket wasn't "the" jacket so they went digging up the firepit in search of the one he might have burned up years ago.

I'll wait for evidence.

Don't forget the fence line digging . ..

 

[FrostedGlass]

Don't forget the fence line digging . ..

Yeah... every time I wanted to bury something on the farm, I did it on the fence line. (Not!)
Actually I did forget the fence line.

 

[Soulmagent]

Yeah... every time I wanted to bury something on the farm, I did it on the fence line. (Not!)
Actually I did forget the fence line.

Well if you ever go metal detecting . do not forget the fence lines , the new ones or the historical ones.

 

[statt#1]

It'll be interesting to see the real evidence. Investigators have a whole bunch of stuff. I've thought through some of these items, and wondered what it all could mean?

The swabbing from the driver's lap belt, and shoulder belt, hmmmmm.

The swabbing from the passenger floorboard, and under the spare tire in the trunk, hmmmmm x2.

Then the boots. I've though a long time about boot/shoe/print analysis. And then there's the potential match of material in/on the boots to material at the scene, maybe as simple as it being the same dirt, or a certain kind of dirt, found on the boots, or the carpet swabbing. Or how about an exact match to a print found at the scene, or a shoe size match? That'd be a problem.

Not to mention the huge trove of electronic stuff. I don't think any of us even have a clue of the depth of that evidence, if it's applicable or not.

And then there's that darn Aquafina water bottle......

Boots, knives and car carpeting: What police seized from Delphi murder suspect’s home

DELPHI, Ind. — Among the over 110 documents unsealed Wednesday in the Delphi murders was a search warrant for suspect Richard Allen’s home and a list of what Indiana State Police seized. Alle…

fox59.com

 

[Ravenmoon]

It'll be interesting to see the real evidence. Investigators have a whole bunch of stuff. I've thought through some of these items, and wondered what it all could mean?

The swabbing from the driver's lap belt, and shoulder belt, hmmmmm.

The swabbing from the passenger floorboard, and under the spare tire in the trunk, hmmmmm x2.

Then the boots. I've though a long time about boot/shoe/print analysis. And then there's the potential match of material in/on the boots to material at the scene, maybe as simple as it being the same dirt, or a certain kind of dirt, found on the boots, or the carpet swabbing. Or how about an exact match to a print found at the scene, or a shoe size match? That'd be a problem.

Not to mention the huge trove of electronic stuff. I don't think any of us even have a clue of the depth of that evidence, if it's applicable or not.

And then there's that darn Aquafina water bottle......

Boots, knives and car carpeting: What police seized from Delphi murder suspect’s home

DELPHI, Ind. — Among the over 110 documents unsealed Wednesday in the Delphi murders was a search warrant for suspect Richard Allen’s home and a list of what Indiana State Police seized. Alle…

fox59.com

Definitely most curious about the Aquafina bottle!

The mind boggles.
There are so many possibilities.


JMO

 

[Trebor5591]

Snipped by me:
I think RA backed in and parked at the old CPS building to keep it away from being seen at the main trailhead parking area. His car there would be more noticeable to trail goers and more easily identified.
In regards to the Hoosier Harvest store's camera? Did he even know of it's existence?

So if he walked back to his car along the road, after killing the girls, "muddy and bloody" as the cops said, did the Hoosier Harvest store camera capture him walking by?

 

[FrostedGlass]

It'll be interesting to see the real evidence. Investigators have a whole bunch of stuff. I've thought through some of these items, and wondered what it all could mean?

The swabbing from the driver's lap belt, and shoulder belt, hmmmmm.

The swabbing from the passenger floorboard, and under the spare tire in the trunk, hmmmmm x2.

Then the boots. I've though a long time about boot/shoe/print analysis. And then there's the potential match of material in/on the boots to material at the scene, maybe as simple as it being the same dirt, or a certain kind of dirt, found on the boots, or the carpet swabbing. Or how about an exact match to a print found at the scene, or a shoe size match? That'd be a problem.

Not to mention the huge trove of electronic stuff. I don't think any of us even have a clue of the depth of that evidence, if it's applicable or not.

And then there's that darn Aquafina water bottle......

Boots, knives and car carpeting: What police seized from Delphi murder suspect’s home

DELPHI, Ind. — Among the over 110 documents unsealed Wednesday in the Delphi murders was a search warrant for suspect Richard Allen’s home and a list of what Indiana State Police seized. Alle…

fox59.com

We've seen the return for items taken in the search. On the "lab exam" we've seen the boxes that are checked and those that are not. What do you make of that? Did they just forget to check those boxes?

We've seen the analysis on the gun/cartridge. Surely there would be no reason for secrecy on the other items?

I'm very surprised they apparently did not analyze the dirt on the boots. What would be the reason for that?

pg 13

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

 

[statt#1]

We've seen the return for items taken in the search. On the "lab exam" we've seen the boxes that are checked and those that are not. What do you make of that? Did they just forget to check those boxes?

We've seen the analysis on the gun/cartridge. Surely there would be no reason for secrecy on the other items?

I'm very surprised they apparently did not analyze the dirt on the boots. What would be the reason for that?

pg 13

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

I don't know, I'm not too smart when it comes to such things as whether or not the items that are unchecked were simply disregarded. I don't know what 'lab' means in the context it is used on this document. Is it possible the 'lab exam' box is checked for a specific purpose, but an unchecked box doesn't necessarily exclude that item from being examined in some other way? Might that 'lab exam' box be for items they sent away to be tested for DNA, or some other specific outcome, whereas the other items were scrutinized in some other manner and not necessarily excluded from testimonial evidence?

I'd be amazed if all the items on the list attached, (which I've looked over pretty close over the past weeks) that are not checked in the 'lab exam' box are, or have been found by prosecution to be of no use.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

 

[Vern]

We've seen the return for items taken in the search. On the "lab exam" we've seen the boxes that are checked and those that are not. What do you make of that? Did they just forget to check those boxes?

We've seen the analysis on the gun/cartridge. Surely there would be no reason for secrecy on the other items?

I'm very surprised they apparently did not analyze the dirt on the boots. What would be the reason for that?

pg 13

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

I dunno for sure, but something tells me those were the immediate items tested at the Indiana State Police Lab only.

I say that due to it containing the weapon and an unfired bullet that were seized during the search. Didn't the PCA lay out that they had determined that the round left at the crime scene had been cycled through this weapon? Ergo that ballistic item was tested against this weapon fairly quickly between the time of seizure and time of the PCA and arrest. And I suspect the round found in the "wooden keepsake box on the dresser" was of particular interest too to determine right away if any tool markings found on it were also present on the round recoered from the scene. Perhaps a trophy??

So, 3 boxes checked:

- Sig Sauer;
- Round in Wooden Box kept on dresser; and
- The cuttng of carpet taken from beneath the spare tire. Did they sprey it with that Luminol perhaps? Do they have a witness seeing him toss something into his trunk/under the spare? Time will tell on that particular piece.

I highly suspect that the other items were either sent away for testing at another lab, sent away later for more in-depth testing, or were not sent for lab analysis with the same priority that these three items obviously were. The first two were obviosuly critical to establishing the link that allowed for his immediate arrest very soon after being seized in the search.

 

[ClearAhead]

I don't know, I'm not too smart when it comes to such things as whether or not the items that are unchecked were simply disregarded. I don't know what 'lab' means in the context it is used on this document. Is it possible the 'lab exam' box is checked for a specific purpose, but an unchecked box doesn't necessarily exclude that item from being examined in some other way? Might that 'lab exam' box be for items they sent away to be tested for DNA, or some other specific outcome, whereas the other items were scrutinized in some other manner and not necessarily excluded from testimonial evidence?

I'd be amazed if all the items on the list attached, (which I've looked over pretty close over the past weeks) that are not checked in the 'lab exam' box are, or have been found by prosecution to be of no use.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

I don’t think I’m ready to jump on the box-is-not-checked bandwagon either. I’ve never heard of a case where analysis of an item seized during a search couldn’t be entered into evidence just because a box on SW wasn’t checked.

This SW page was photocopied and entered into discovery at a certain point in time. What if testing was still ongoing, would the photocopy of the SW contained in discovery showing a brand new checkmark beside an item be updated each time someone decided it was prudent to send something to the lab? That doesn’t make sense. We don’t see LE logs, notes or lab reports shared with the D either but I doubt a check mark tells the whole story of how items seized during the search were scrutinized. MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I dunno for sure, but something tells me those were the immediate items tested at the Indiana State Police Lab only.

I say that due to it containing the weapon and an unfired bullet that were seized during the search. Didn't the PCA lay out that they had determined that the round left at the crime scene had been cycled through this weapon? Ergo that ballistic item was tested against this weapon fairly quickly between the time of seizure and time of the PCA and arrest. And I suspect the round found in the "wooden keepsake box on the dresser" was of particular interest too to determine right away if any tool markings found on it were also present on the round recoered from the scene. Perhaps a trophy??

So, 3 boxes checked:

- Sig Sauer;
- Round in Wooden Box kept on dresser; and
- The cuttng of carpet taken from beneath the spare tire. Did they sprey it with that Luminol perhaps? Do they have a witness seeing him toss something into his trunk/under the spare? Time will tell on that particular piece.

I highly suspect that the other items were either sent away for testing at another lab, sent away later for more in-depth testing, or were not sent for lab analysis with the same priority that these three items obviously were. The first two were obviosuly critical to establishing the link that allowed for his immediate arrest very soon after being seized in the search.

The search warrant return was filed on May 1, 2023 so that gave them plenty of time to get the items tested, IMO.
pg 13

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

 

[FrostedGlass]

I don’t think I’m ready to jump on the box-is-not-checked bandwagon either. I’ve never heard of a case where analysis of an item seized during a search couldn’t be entered into evidence just because a box on SW wasn’t checked.

This SW page was photocopied and entered into discovery at a certain point in time. What if testing was still ongoing, would the photocopy of the SW contained in discovery showing a brand new checkmark beside an item be updated each time someone decided it was prudent to send something to the lab? That doesn’t make sense. We don’t see LE logs, notes or lab reports shared with the D either but I doubt a check mark tells the whole story of how items seized during the search were scrutinized. MOO

It's filed as "State's Exhibit 2" and dated.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

 

[shonyakay]

It'll be interesting to see the real evidence. Investigators have a whole bunch of stuff. I've thought through some of these items, and wondered what it all could mean?

The swabbing from the driver's lap belt, and shoulder belt, hmmmmm.

The swabbing from the passenger floorboard, and under the spare tire in the trunk, hmmmmm x2.

Then the boots. I've though a long time about boot/shoe/print analysis. And then there's the potential match of material in/on the boots to material at the scene, maybe as simple as it being the same dirt, or a certain kind of dirt, found on the boots, or the carpet swabbing. Or how about an exact match to a print found at the scene, or a shoe size match? That'd be a problem.

Not to mention the huge trove of electronic stuff. I don't think any of us even have a clue of the depth of that evidence, if it's applicable or not.

And then there's that darn Aquafina water bottle......

Boots, knives and car carpeting: What police seized from Delphi murder suspect’s home

DELPHI, Ind. — Among the over 110 documents unsealed Wednesday in the Delphi murders was a search warrant for suspect Richard Allen’s home and a list of what Indiana State Police seized. Alle…

fox59.com

The attorneys also argued that nothing relevant to the case was taken from Allen’s home.

“The affidavit failed to connect generic items to actual items that were possibly used in the crime,” the attorneys concluded.

Just curious as to what you make of this statement from the defense team? Are they claiming nothing connects Allen to the crime that was found in his home?

If this were true then why were they trying to get the PCA thrown out?

 

[ClearAhead]

It's filed as "State's Exhibit 2" and dated.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

But we don’t know for what period of time after the search, if at all, is LE required to go back and place check marks on the SW if they choose to send away an item for testing.

Furthermore I’m missing the point of why a check mark or lack of one is so important that the subject keeps getting mentioned?

JMO

 

[Salah11]

Well the gun directly ties him to crime and that was found in the home. So the Defense spinning more falsehoods. Moo

 

[shonyakay]

So if he walked back to his car along the road, after killing the girls, "muddy and bloody" as the cops said, did the Hoosier Harvest store camera capture him walking by?

It depends on where he emerged from the woods at and where exactly on 300 N Sarah says she saw him. All we know atm is she was driving East on 300 N and the man was walking West.