Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #196

[sunshineray]

Reconsider Judge Gull's ruling would have been clearer wording. Sorry for any confusion SSR.

Need more coffee.

No worries girlhasnoname!

 

[sunshineray]

I wonder if this is true? Imagine, the trial begins and then is potentially halted for weeks while the D’s appeal is heard?

BBM

Delphi murders trial moving forward after judge blocks defense appeal

Special Judge Frances Gull denied a motion by Richard Allen's defense to make their case to an Appeals Court.

www.wthr.com

On Sept. 11, 2024, Gull denied the motion to certify. That means that the defense will not be able to appeal her decision until after the trial is already underway.

That's what it will be, I bet. In keeping with with their previous filings in this case. MO

 

[sunshineray]

How do the defense solve the issue of RA admitting he was on the bridge at the time the girls were on the trails?

He only changed the time when he knew years later they have video that spelled out the time of when the crime was committed.

They now can not use 3rd parties who were not even in Delphi at the time of the murders.

MOO

They attack DD on the stand, I guess?

 

[Willow Knight]

They had a signed copy by RA they have drug around since August of 2023. I kept waiting for them to file it and mentioned it here ad nauseam.

When they finally did file it in early March 5th or 6th, the Defendant must be brought to trial within 70 days, they waited until 3 days before the May trial date (after the 1st jury questionnaires had been sent out) to withdraw because they were not ready and in that hearing said how unfair it was for the Prosecution to have more time.

<snipped>

The Delphi murders trial might now begin much sooner than expected. Wednesday morning, attorneys for defendant Richard Allen filed a motion for an early trial, and that motion triggers a new clock that starts ticking immediately.

Richard Allen's legal team files motion requesting early trial

MOO

I just had this feeling you would have this info!

Ok, so it was Oct 31, 2023 when the defense team was removed. However the defense team had the speedy trial motion signed as of August 2023.

So Richard Allen signed the ST paperwork in August, he could have been to trial BEFORE they were removed. However, the DT had not even filed it.

Richard Allen being incarcerated this long before trial is their decision.

MOO

Judge officially removes Richard Allen's attorneys from case

Special Judge Fran Gull officially removed defense attorneys Andrew Baldwin and Brad Rozzi from the Richard Allen double homicide case.

www.wlfi.com

 

[Megnut]

How do the defense solve the issue of RA admitting he was on the bridge at the time the girls were on the trails?

He only changed the time when he knew years later they have video that spelled out the time of when the crime was committed.

They now can not use 3rd parties who were not even in Delphi at the time of the murders.

MOO

If they're artful, in the course of their cross-examination and presentation of their (expert) witnesses, raise or create doubt and confusion. Challenge evidence collection, credentials, past statements. Standard defense operating procedure IMO.

Which they should have been focused on and preparing for, and prepared for. Eons ago.

JMO

 

[Andieinsyd]

They attack DD on the stand, I guess?

Agree. IMO the D can attack a lot of the evidence against RA one at a time and they do outline a lot of this in the Franks. However IMO it gets lost in all the noise:
DD was a mistake maker and unreliable, we can’t trust his records, including the time he recorded for RA being at trails, it is incorrect.
RA said he saw three girls near Freedom bridge as he was leaving. This wasn’t the same group of four! girls that the P say saw him. They saw BG but not RA because RA had left.
BB saw a younger guy with pouffy hair on the bridge, AND a big old style car that looked nothing like RAs car. Who was this younger guy with that car, he is actually BG (because RA had left)
LE etc calculated the height of BG as quite a lot taller than RA
The bullet evidence can be argued as unreliable by an expert
The confessions can be argued as unreliable due to significant mental health issues by an expert
RA was home sleeping after his visit to the trails.
Then
RA didn’t act like a guilty person after the murders. He stayed in Delphi, in his public facing job, he kept his car, he kept his gun.
RA has no criminal history, his wife continues to stand by him and comes to court to show her support.

IMO RA is probably guilty and really hope for a fair trial where the evidence is tested and if RA is guilty, this becomes very clear.

 

[sunshineray]

I just had this feeling you would have this info!

Ok, so it was Oct 31, 2023 when the defense team was removed. However the defense team had the speedy trial motion signed as of August 2023.

So Richard Allen signed the ST paperwork in August, he could have been to trial BEFORE they were removed. However, the DT had not even filed it.

Richard Allen being incarcerated this long before trial is their decision.

MOO

Judge officially removes Richard Allen's attorneys from case

Special Judge Fran Gull officially removed defense attorneys Andrew Baldwin and Brad Rozzi from the Richard Allen double homicide case.

www.wlfi.com

Sure looks that way

 

[sunshineray]

Agree. IMO the D can attack a lot of the evidence against RA one at a time and they do outline a lot of this in the Franks. However IMO it gets lost in all the noise:
DD was a mistake maker and unreliable, we can’t trust his records, including the time he recorded for RA being at trails, it is incorrect.
RA said he saw three girls near Freedom bridge as he was leaving. This wasn’t the same group of four! girls that the P say saw him. They saw BG but not RA because RA had left.
BB saw a younger guy with pouffy hair on the bridge, AND a big old style car that looked nothing like RAs car. Who was this younger guy with that car, he is actually BG (because RA had left)
LE etc calculated the height of BG as quite a lot taller than RA
The bullet evidence can be argued as unreliable by an expert
The confessions can be argued as unreliable due to significant mental health issues by an expert
RA was home sleeping after his visit to the trails.
Then
RA didn’t act like a guilty person after the murders. He stayed in Delphi, in his public facing job, he kept his car, he kept his gun.
RA has no criminal history, his wife continues to stand by him and comes to court to show her support.

IMO RA is probably guilty and really hope for a fair trial where the evidence is tested and if RA is guilty, this becomes very clear.

I believe it's going to be the confessions to his wife and mother that do him in with a jury. MO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Agree. IMO the D can attack a lot of the evidence against RA one at a time and they do outline a lot of this in the Franks. However IMO it gets lost in all the noise:
DD was a mistake maker and unreliable, we can’t trust his records, including the time he recorded for RA being at trails, it is incorrect.
RA said he saw three girls near Freedom bridge as he was leaving. This wasn’t the same group of four! girls that the P say saw him. They saw BG but not RA because RA had left.
BB saw a younger guy with pouffy hair on the bridge, AND a big old style car that looked nothing like RAs car. Who was this younger guy with that car, he is actually BG (because RA had left)
LE etc calculated the height of BG as quite a lot taller than RA
The bullet evidence can be argued as unreliable by an expert
The confessions can be argued as unreliable due to significant mental health issues by an expert
RA was home sleeping after his visit to the trails.
Then
RA didn’t act like a guilty person after the murders. He stayed in Delphi, in his public facing job, he kept his car, he kept his gun.
RA has no criminal history, his wife continues to stand by him and comes to court to show her support.

IMO RA is probably guilty and really hope for a fair trial where the evidence is tested and if RA is guilty, this becomes very clear.

BBM
Are you playing devils advocate here?
There is no proof that DD was a mistake maker and unreliable. If he took down the statement from RA exactly as he was told (recorded in his tip sheet) perhaps RA lied about his name and where he parked. He may have told DD his name ended with Whiteman and he parked at the old farm bureau building downtown. He could have lied about how many girls he saw and I think we can all pretty much guess he lied about looking at stocks on his phone IMO
What makes DD a mistake maker and unreliable if he’s simply noting what he was informed in a grocery parking lot?
Also I have never seen any statement that RA saw the group or girls as he was leaving. He passed them as he was entering and they were leaving after they had spent over an hour on the trails between Freedom and MHB.
Where are you getting this information?

 

[tlcya]

For an interlocutory appeal to succeed, however, Gull must first approve Allen's request for the appeal, which she denied. If she had approved it, the petition still hinged on the appeals court accepting the case. So even without Gull's denial, there was no guarantee the arguments about admitting Allen's statements and the defense argument about [the O word] would be heard.

Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen's motion for appeal denied; trial starts Oct. 14

Special Judge Frances Gull denied Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen's request for an interlocutory appeal at the Indiana Appeals Court.

www.jconline.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

They had a signed copy by RA they have drug around since August of 2023. I kept waiting for them to file it and mentioned it here ad nauseam.

When they finally did file it in early March 5th or 6th, the Defendant must be brought to trial within 70 days, they waited until 3 days before the May trial date (after the 1st jury questionnaires had been sent out) to withdraw because they were not ready and in that hearing said how unfair it was for the Prosecution to have more time.

<snipped>

The Delphi murders trial might now begin much sooner than expected. Wednesday morning, attorneys for defendant Richard Allen filed a motion for an early trial, and that motion triggers a new clock that starts ticking immediately.

Richard Allen's legal team files motion requesting early trial

MOO

06/15/2023

Hearing Scheduling Activity Jury Trial scheduled for 01/08/2024 at 9:00 AM.

B&R had the motion for a speedy trial signed so it would be ready when they were ready. It was scheduled for Jan 8, 2024.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

08C01-2210-MR-000001

The judge ordered B&R to stop working on the case on October 12, 2023.

Judge grants 2 new court-appointed attorneys for Richard Allen, dismisses filings from former attorney

The trial for the suspect in the Delphi murders case was expected to start Jan. 8, 2024.

www.wthr.com

B&R finally got back on the case

01/19/2024

Order Received from the Indiana Supreme Court Published Order Order Signed: 01/18/2024

 

[Salah11]

RA could also have come forward like a good citizen when LE didn’t contact him after he spoke to DD.

He could have also had words with him when he next saw him and double-checked why nobody had been in contact considering he was out there at the time in question. That's suspicious in itself when LE is desperate to talk to people out on the trails that afternoon that RA doesn’t find it strange they never contacted him when he places himself on the bridge in the time frame they are looking at.

MOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

RA could also have come forward like a good citizen when LE didn’t contact him after he spoke to DD.

He could have also had words with him when he next saw him and double-checked why nobody had been in contact considering he was out there at the time in question. That's suspicious in itself when LE is desperate to talk to people out on the trails that afternoon that RA doesn’t find it strange they never contacted him when he places himself on the bridge in the time frame they are looking at.

MOO

RA did not put himself on the bridge when he talked to DD in 2017. He only said he was on the trails.
It was when RA was questioned on October 13, 2022 that he said he stood on the first platform of the bridge.

 

[Salah11]

RA did not put himself on the bridge when he talked to DD in 2017. He only said he was on the trails.
It was when RA was questioned on October 13, 2022 that he said he stood on the first platform of the bridge.

Thank you for jogging my memory I will have to go back and look at what he said to DD.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

RA did not put himself on the bridge when he talked to DD in 2017. He only said he was on the trails.
It was when RA was questioned on October 13, 2022 that he said he stood on the first platform of the bridge.

He said he walked from Freedom Bridge to MHB when he spoke to DD.
I admit this does not directly put him on the bridge but it definitely would have him in sight of it. So a helpful citizen at the MHB should have seen the victims and the perpetrator.
Yet according to the PCA his report to DD is he saw “no one” except on Freedom Bridge where he saw the group of girls before he continued on towards MHB.



https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

 

[Salah11]

Where is the bench in comparison to the bridge where he claims he sat?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Well they're going after the warden so maybe Dr. W is next, then the guards? They have to go after the character of the people RA confessed to, I suppose? That's going to get a little tricky with the family phone calls though, I'd think?

Oh and RA seeing the discovery, the murders details, before he started confessing BUT that may prove tricky too because Detective Harshman seems to have all the receipts that isn't the case?

He could change his plea to guilty, I suppose?

Highlighted by me for focus.
I'm curious about what makes you think they are going after the warden? Is it in the 3-day hearing transcripts?

 

[Andieinsyd]

BBM
Are you playing devils advocate here?
There is no proof that DD was a mistake maker and unreliable. If he took down the statement from RA exactly as he was told (recorded in his tip sheet) perhaps RA lied about his name and where he parked. He may have told DD his name ended with Whiteman and he parked at the old farm bureau building downtown. He could have lied about how many girls he saw and I think we can all pretty much guess he lied about looking at stocks on his phone IMO
What makes DD a mistake maker and unreliable if he’s simply noting what he was informed in a grocery parking lot?
Also I have never seen any statement that RA saw the group or girls as he was leaving. He passed them as he was entering and they were leaving after they had spent over an hour on the trails between Freedom and MHB.
Where are you getting this information?

Yes, in the context of what do the defence do now, these are the points I think the D will make. I do think they have arguments to make without the SODDI defence that Judge Gull has ruled out. I don’t personally believe them, but I also don’t think this trial will be completely one sided, particularly if the confessions seem contradictory or seem to be dialog from someone who is
mentally ill.
IANAL and just my own thoughts.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Highlighted by me for focus.
I'm curious about what makes you think they are going after the warden? Is it in the 3-day hearing transcripts?

See attached document filed 9/9

https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aa...3SIG-BqMJTV6vinsyI_aem_GqrHPdOVSZ0pwdKxOLvHOA

 

[FrostedGlass]

See attached document filed 9/9

Adobe Acrobat

Thanks. It was being stated as fact without a link so I thought I'd missed it in the transcripts.