Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #196

[Vern]

The search warrant return was filed on May 1, 2023 so that gave them plenty of time to get the items tested, IMO.
pg 13

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

That may be, but all the documents you are citing are dated 13 October 2022.
See page 13 and the pages that follows for their dates. Search Warrant was requested, granted and executed on 13 Oct 2022. That means that those checked items were sent to the ISP lab for testing as soon as they were recovered in the search on 13 October. The results of those tests were used prior to 01 May 2023 as part of the basis for the arrest.

The other items were not sent immediately.

Perhaps 01 May 2023 is the date they were filed into the sytem for part of the upcoming public release of documents? Regardless, they were on file and used to execute the arrest well-prior to 01 May.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

Those original documents above became the basis for the PCA for arrest of RA.

The originals are not going to be then altered at a later date to show onward movement of other items for testing at lab(s). Rather a new receipt (& chain of custody), and their date, will be drafted/issued for those later items.

And, we already know nothing is being kept "secret" precisely because the other items that were also lab tested also had the results of those tests made public in same delphidocs link. An example is at the post below regarding the ISP testing and detailing that RAs magazine cartridges held 10 rounds each:

Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #195

So in his confessions he admits Motive for the murders. Also why he delayed confessing to the crimes. Ricky’s mum very upset first time he confessed to the crime and then they started to control the narrative and was telling him to stop confessing it seems. Page 11 and 12...

www.websleuths.com

 

[statt#1]

The attorneys also argued that nothing relevant to the case was taken from Allen’s home.

“The affidavit failed to connect generic items to actual items that were possibly used in the crime,” the attorneys concluded.

Just curious as to what you make of this statement from the defense team? Are they claiming nothing connects Allen to the crime that was found in his home?

If this were true then why were they trying to get the PCA thrown out?

I'd guess defense is doing what defense is supposed to do, right?

 

[katydid23]

Do we know what time of day the kids ate breakfast? Was it the last thing they ate before they were killed?

I’m asking because, “Emptying gastric contents is another method used for estimating the post-mortem interval. Small light meals get emptied from the stomach within 1 to 3 hours, and the time of consumption, if known – along with volume and type of meal, can be used to estimate the post-mortem interval.[6] Therefore, the immediate post-mortem phase can be termed as the post-mortem interval between somatic and cellular death, within 2 to 3 hours after death, and usually denotes a lack of discernible changes in the morphology or histo-chemistry.” - Methods of Estimation of Time Since Death - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf.

The ME doesn't only rely upon the stomach contents---thy can also check the intestines to see if the made it through there yet.

Regarding the timeline the morning of the crime and what the stomach contents might have been:

In the podcast Scene of the Crime (which interviews members of the families), BP says that the girls had pizza for dinner the night before, then spent most of the evening working on a painting with the theme of chocolate and watched movies with KG and friends.

They woke up around 10am after staying up late. BP says that DG made them pancakes for breakfast and the girls hung around the house but shortly started saying they were bored. They asked what they could do. BP offered to let them do some work filing for her that she would pay them for; then they could all go shopping later after BP's work was done. The girls agreed to the filing and shopping plan. They also worked on re-painting a desk for Libby's room. But "sometime around lunchtime" (minute 23:03 of podcast) the girls started talking about going to the Monon High Bridge trail. It is unclear whether or not lunch was eaten before they left but the timing of the drop off makes me think possibly so.

https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/scene-of-the-crime-975846/episodes/recent

Luckily, the family will know if they ate something at lunchtime before they left. I am guessing they probably did, since they were bing dropped off somewhere with no access to food source, and they'd need some energy for their hike on the trails. IMO

 

[katydid23]

They knew he had a blue Carhartt jacket and took it during the search of his home. Digging around in his backyard at that time for it would make no sense.

They didnt know if it was the same jacket or a replacement. Carhartt jackets are a dime a dozen---easily replaceable.

 

[katydid23]

I remember following the search for Abby and Libby almost all night , they had people in the woods all night that night and I want to say even the next night as they were still searching for things or maybe it was night time forensics though the night after they found them .

Yes, I remember that too. There was an interview with a couple of first responders who had continued searching after it was called off. They stayed throughout the night and said others had done so as well...and some of the friends and family stayed on too.

 

[photographer4]

I wonder if RA bought a new Carhartt jacket after his October 13th interview and deposed of the old one. That sure would be damning.
The gun would be a lot harder to swap out.
He definitely did what he could to not set off alarms. He did change his appearance quite a bit. But he didn’t go the extremes of selling off his assets.
All my opinion.

I have wondered if they had a team keep an eye on him in the days before and after the Oct 13 interview in order to get a sense of his movements / contacts etc. if he had a tail on him it’s possible his behavior changed in small ways noticed by LE before his arrest. It’s also possible they know if he did try to make a switch imo - again, IF they assigned a detail to babysit him after that interview they may know way more than they’ve even let on to date. Moooo

 

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[Vern]

D-27 until trial.

Justice for Abby & Libby.

 

[mrjitty]

But we don’t know for what period of time after the search, if at all, is LE required to go back and place check marks on the SW if they choose to send away an item for testing.

Furthermore I’m missing the point of why a check mark or lack of one is so important that the subject keeps getting mentioned?

JMO

IMO the checkbox just indicates immediate chain of custody for this return - as it is a receipt of what is held as at that date (13 Oct), when this return has to be completed. It's my understand that the property owner and the court get a copy of this? But i am not that familiar with Indiana search procedure.

We know for instance, that all the electronics were forensically analysed - and that is not shown here. There's almost certainly DNA testing - again not shown. etc.

 

[somequestions]

RSBM/BBM

Whose vehicles do you suppose he saw? My theory is the only vehicles he saw was on his trek back to his car around 3:57pm.
He arrived before KG and BB so where did these cars come from that he saw?
Jmo

Richard Allen stated he saw these vehicles at the Mears trailhead parking lot while he was walking to the Monon High Bridge. If Richard Allen is lying, he came up with some great lies to make it seem like other people could be in the area of the Monon High Bridge around the same time as himself and Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

I agree. Richard Allen arrived before KG and BB so where did these cars that he saw at the Mears trailhead parking lot come from?

 

[mrjitty]

The search warrant return was filed on May 1, 2023 so that gave them plenty of time to get the items tested, IMO.
pg 13

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

The return (exhibit 2) is from 13 October 2022 - the date of the search. You can see the signed/dated certification at p13 from Liggett.

 

[somequestions]

So if he walked back to his car along the road, after killing the girls, "muddy and bloody" as the cops said, did the Hoosier Harvest store camera capture him walking by?

No, he was not seen on the Hoosier Harvest store camera as far as we know. I would like to know if LE even has a figure walking by the Hoosier Harvest store surveillance camera around the time of 3:57pm when SC says she saw a person described as muddy and bloody walking down the road that runs parallel to the Monon High Bridge trail?

The only thing that makes sense is Richard Allen somehow managed to walk back to his vehicle on the Monon High Bridge trail itself and somehow, even though Liberty German's father and flannel shirt guy were there on the trail by that time, no one saw him or remembered him on the Monon High Bridge trail path walking around wearing wet muddy clothes(except SC who was driving).

Once the helicopter news footage and the detail about the creek crossing became known, how many people tipped in someone they saw on the Monon High Bridge trail the day of the crime who was wet and muddy(besides SC)?

 

[mrjitty]

Ultimately, the delay in capturing him 5 years later means physical evidence seems lacking. Also all these crime shows as well means these criminals are a lot more clued-up on how to destroy evidence. MOO

Yes - I agree. That is why they will try and prove this case from 3 sides.

1. The witnesses will say, IMO, that the man they saw is the bridge guy in the video. So IMO the key to the entire case is whether the man the 3 juveniles saw was RA. Based on the PCA, I suspect RA has really hurt himself quite badly by admitted he saw a group of girls. His innocence requires not only 2 Bridge Guys, but a second groups of girls never identified.

2. The confessions (enough said) and 3. Ballistics/forensics - these help with point 1.

What is revealing IMO, is the defence's lack of interest in certain 3rd party suspects. They don't look like Bridge Guy. So the defence understands this dynamic. Realistically the man the juvenile girls saw is bridge guy - so the defence needs Bridge Guy II.

Of now of course they want to shift the focus to where the girls go from the Bridge, but IMO the whole case is decided on what happens before the Bridge. What happens from Bridge Guy on, is not in doubt IMO.

 

[sunshineray]

Ok, I'll re-think this.

They entered his home for the search. The gun stuff was the first item of interest and then they went for the blue jacket. However, the jacket wasn't "the" jacket so they went digging up the firepit in search of the one he might have burned up years ago.

I'll wait for evidence.

It's what I would do with the clothes I wore when I murdered two people, get rid of them. Fire pits seem to be very common in that area. We can't legally burn anything but wood outside in my area. As far as having another jacket, it would make sense to replace it, no questions from friends or wife noticing I'm not wearing my usual jacket...that matches the BG. JMO I can't wait for the trial to start too!

 

[FromGermany1]

Richard Allen stated he saw these vehicles at the Mears trailhead parking lot while he was walking to the Monon High Bridge. If Richard Allen is lying, he came up with some great lies to make it seem like other people could be in the area of the Monon High Bridge around the same time as himself and Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

I agree. Richard Allen arrived before KG and BB so where did these cars that he saw at the Mears trailhead parking lot come from?

I think, RA must have seen the black (??) van with many decals on the rear windshield, which Kelsi saw. (As usual, can't find the exact description atm.) Did RA see this vehicle? Did he identify any vehicle at all?

 

[Vern]

No, he was not seen on the Hoosier Harvest store camera as far as we know. I would like to know if LE even has a figure walking by the Hoosier Harvest store surveillance camera around the time of 3:57pm when SC says she saw a person described as muddy and bloody walking down the road that runs parallel to the Monon High Bridge trail?

The only thing that makes sense is Richard Allen somehow managed to walk back to his vehicle on the Monon High Bridge trail itself and somehow, even though Liberty German's father and flannel shirt guy were there on the trail by that time, no one saw him or remembered him on the Monon High Bridge trail path walking around wearing wet muddy clothes(except SC who was driving).

Once the helicopter news footage and the detail about the creek crossing became known, how many people tipped in someone they saw on the Monon High Bridge trail the day of the crime who was wet and muddy(besides SC)?

I think she was the only individual (who we know of) who saw him leaving.

I think that because I believe he came up the hill from the murder scene to the back of the cemetary; I also think he walked back towards his car while staying in the woods alongside the road. That would keep his muddy and bloody self out of sight of any other possible passing vehicle(s) and anyone who would be on the trail and off of the camera.

Unfortunately for him, he would have had to come out of the woods no later than the Freedom Bridge in order to get back to his car ... with no cover of woods for that last stretch to 'home free'. On the very large turn of W300N where he would be exposed for the shortest amount of time, but time enough and to his bad luck, to have SC pass him by at that very time and location.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.ca

 

[girlhasnoname]

Richard Allen stated he saw these vehicles at the Mears trailhead parking lot while he was walking to the Monon High Bridge. If Richard Allen is lying, he came up with some great lies to make it seem like other people could be in the area of the Monon High Bridge around the same time as himself and Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

I agree. Richard Allen arrived before KG and BB so where did these cars that he saw at the Mears trailhead parking lot come from?

Yes the same man who parked at a fairly vacant lot, backed in without his license plate showing as far back as possible.

Jmo

 

[sunshineray]

I think, RA must have seen the black (??) van with many decals on the rear windshield, which Kelsi saw. (As usual, can't find the exact description atm.) Did RA see this vehicle? Did he identify any vehicle at all?

Not that I've heard

 

[girlhasnoname]

Tick tock RA and B&R let’s go. It’s beyond time.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think she was the only individual (who we know of) who saw him leaving.

I think that because I believe he came up the hill from the murder scene to the back of the cemetary; I also think he walked back towards his car while staying in the woods alongside the road. That would keep his muddy and bloody self out of sight of any other possible passing vehicle(s) and anyone who would be on the trail and off of the camera.

Unfortunately for him, he would have had to come out of the woods no later than the Freedom Bridge in order to get back to his car ... with no cover of woods for that last stretch to 'home free'. On the very large turn of W300N where he would be exposed for the shortest amount of time, but time enough and to his bad luck, to have SC pass him by at that very time and location.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.ca

Exactly He took the wooded area out as far as possible and it was divine intervention that SC saw him on the road less traveled.

Moo