Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #197

[Salah11]

What does this say about the defense and the fact they are willing to use such questionable character’s and it raises big questions on what their vetting protocols were?!

It’s a blessing that his testimony has been excluded from the trail or it would of made the defence look even more shady.

Moo

 

[FrostedGlass]

What does this say about the defense and the fact they are willing to use such questionable character’s and it raises big questions on what their vetting protocols were?!

It’s a blessing that his testimony has been excluded from the trail or it would of made the defence look even more shady.

Moo

These charges came from Dec 21 of 2023 but weren't filed until Sep 26, 2024.
<modsnip>

 

[sunshineray]

I can't speak for another poster so here's what Holeman said that's questionable. IMO.
Emphasized by me for focus.



If he had said: "and we have proof" I wouldn't have given his statement a second thought. Since he worded it the way he did, my question to him would have been: "If you don't have proof now, after all these years, how exactly do you plan to get it?"

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2024/04/Motionpdf.pdf

Well they got it now, godsend or investigative perseverance...confessions with details trumps them both. MO

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Snark is disrespectful and a violation of Websleuths rules. Rather than ridicule others for their opinion, it's really possible just to scroll and roll without the snarky comments.

 

[sunshineray]

The judge left open showing proof at trial on the SODDI stuff...I'd assume at sidebars or out of the jury's presence discussions/rulings.

This just happened to one of their mostly likely to be witnesses (if the judge ruled to admit certain SODDI things at trial when shown relevent proof)

Defense witness Todd Click has been arrested.​

“Defense witness, former Rushville assistant police chief, and Delphi's "Odinism theory" expert Todd Click was arrested. He has been charged with official misconduct, forgery, and falsifying child abuse or neglect information or records”

The Delphi Murders: Defense Witness Todd Click Is Arrested on Unrelated Matters

Defense witness, former Rushville assistant police chief, and Delphi's "Odinism theory" expert Todd Click was arrested. He has been charged with official misconduct, forgery, and falsifying child abuse or neglect information or records. Support The Murder Sheet by buying a t-shirt here...

art19.com

 

[katydid23]

I can't speak for another poster so here's what Holeman said that's questionable. IMO.
Emphasized by me for focus.



If he had said: "and we have proof" I wouldn't have given his statement a second thought. Since he worded it the way he did, my question to him would have been: "If you don't have proof now, after all these years, how exactly do you plan to get it?"

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2024/04/Motionpdf.pdf

Him saying "I'm gonna prove it" does not mean he does not already have evidence to use for proof.

They already had evidence enough to get the PCA and the warrants and they were receiving forensics results, and compiling witness testimony and background reports.

So I don't see anything nefarious about him saying he was going to 'prove it.' To me that just means he plans to take the evidence to court to prove RA's guilt. JMO

 

[katydid23]

If Indiana's attorney general is not knowledgeable about the case, he sure shouldn't be making such comments on it. "Holding it close to the vest" might have been a better way around the question. MOO

I believe the gag order only applies to extra-judicial statements to the public. IMO

Holeman would not have to prove anything in the interrogation room; but I would have expected him to say "we have proof" instead of what he did say. MHO

But there is a difference between 'proof' and 'evidence.'

They can have all the evidence necessary to prove guilt, but until they go to court and take it to trial, they have no proof. Proving it requires sharing the evidence with the court and 'proving your case.'

So I don't see anything wrong with Holeman's wording. He predicted he was going to prove it, because he had the evidence necessary. Simple as that, IMO.

 

[Vern]

D-9 .... .... ....

 

[girlhasnoname]

Is this new?

No, from last year IIRC.

 

[sunshineray]

The judge left open showing proof at trial on the SODDI stuff...I'd assume at sidebars or out of the jury's presence discussions/rulings.

This just happened to one of their mostly likely to be witnesses (if the judge ruled to admit certain SODDI things at trial when shown relevent proof)

Defense witness Todd Click has been arrested.​

“Defense witness, former Rushville assistant police chief, and Delphi's "Odinism theory" expert Todd Click was arrested. He has been charged with official misconduct, forgery, and falsifying child abuse or neglect information or records”

The Delphi Murders: Defense Witness Todd Click Is Arrested on Unrelated Matters

Defense witness, former Rushville assistant police chief, and Delphi's "Odinism theory" expert Todd Click was arrested. He has been charged with official misconduct, forgery, and falsifying child abuse or neglect information or records. Support The Murder Sheet by buying a t-shirt here...

art19.com

Just to remind as the TC actions were mostly likely why NMcL motioned for his records back in April this year? Again, this could affect how the trial's roadmap is laid out, in relation to bringing SODDI stuff on the record during trial (but out of jury's earshot) to protect certain appeals RA could later initiate if convicted.

Delphi prosecutor gets personnel records of police chief at center of Odinist defense

 

[girlhasnoname]

Just to remind as the TC actions were mostly likely why NMcL motioned for his records back in April this year? Again, this could affect how the trial's roadmap is laid out, in relation to bringing SODDI stuff on the record during trial (but out of jury's earshot) to protect certain appeals RA could later initiate if convicted.

Delphi prosecutor gets personnel records of police chief at center of Odinist defense

Oooh, that's got to hurt the Defense knowing one of their key witnesses has been arrested and is being charged with lying, forgery and misconduct. The Defense house of cards appears to crumbling down around them.

Birds of a feather and all that.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Oooh, that's got to hurt the Defense knowing one of their key witnesses has been arrested and is being charged with lying, forgery and misconduct. The Defense house of cards appears to crumbling down around them.

Birds of a feather and all that.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

MOO

Yes, filing false reports and forging signatures, very serious accusations against his credibility. MO

 

[mrjitty]

Well they got it now, godsend or investigative perseverance...confessions with details trumps them both. MO

The judge left open showing proof at trial on the SODDI stuff...I'd assume at sidebars or out of the jury's presence discussions/rulings.

This just happened to one of their mostly likely to be witnesses (if the judge ruled to admit certain SODDI things at trial when shown relevent proof)

Defense witness Todd Click has been arrested.​

“Defense witness, former Rushville assistant police chief, and Delphi's "Odinism theory" expert Todd Click was arrested. He has been charged with official misconduct, forgery, and falsifying child abuse or neglect information or records”

The Delphi Murders: Defense Witness Todd Click Is Arrested on Unrelated Matters

Defense witness, former Rushville assistant police chief, and Delphi's "Odinism theory" expert Todd Click was arrested. He has been charged with official misconduct, forgery, and falsifying child abuse or neglect information or records. Support The Murder Sheet by buying a t-shirt here...

art19.com

I do wonder if the trial will show that Click and co were pursuing something akin to satanic panic because they weren't good at their jobs.

At the very least this calls his credibility into question.

MOO

 

[shonyakay]

Vinnie Politan with Gray Hughes and Barbara McDonald
-GH states in the video that the bullet was found the first day.

Vinnie Politan dissects the killing of Abby Williams and Libby German and the accused murderer, Richard Allen. He discusses the upcoming chance of a fair trial and whether Allen is the perpetrator. (10/03/24

Vinnie Politan Investigates Episodes | Court TV

In this weekday series, Vinnie Politan looks at every angle of cases making headlines.

www.courttv.com

Re: regarding the bullet found the first day...

Holeman also said this when questioning RA in October 2022 before his arrest.

Holeman told RA that the bullet was found, photographed, and logged into evidence on the 14th of February, the day the girls' bodies were discovered.

 

[sunshineray]

What does this say about the defense and the fact they are willing to use such questionable character’s and it raises big questions on what their vetting protocols were?!

It’s a blessing that his testimony has been excluded from the trail or it would of made the defence look even more shady.

Moo

A year's worth of fanciful speculation and illusion that's probably responsible for the dramatic rising cost of the case for taxpayers. MO

 

[Salah11]

Being an outsider, if the Prosecution lost this case, with the amount it’s costing, would there be massive outrage?

 

[sunshineray]

Being an outsider, if the Prosecution lost this case, with the amount it’s costing, would there be massive outrage?

I think if there was a hung jury/mistrial there would be, MO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Yes, filing false reports and forging signatures, very serious accusations against his credibility. MO

TC, even before his arrest, was a perfect example of how dishonest the defense team has been with pretty much everything they have put forth in every motion.
TC’s tale of investigating BH etc was exactly what the defense needed to bolster their big bombshell Franks #1 scenario, that will not be mentioned. They absolutely knew, however, that, in the end, TC could not prove any of his investigatees were in Delphi that day…per his sworn testimony at the hearings…and that he had not even bothered to check out BH’s alibi…per his sworn testimony. So they just didn’t mention that part, and because so many people lapped up the Franks motion as fact instead of half-lies, whole lies and manipulation, this charade continued for almost a year.
The SCOIN must be in cringe therapy trying to come to terms with what their lazy decision in January has done to this case.

Punctuation-wise, obviously working on my use of commas here. Think I nailed it.

Opinion

 

[Megnut]

I must constantly remind myself that criminal cases are brought by the State.

What happened to Abby and Libby is awful, horrific, tragic, terrifying, all the words. There is no justice that can bring them back.

That's not what trials are. Trials are about justice for the State, justice for the defendants. Justice, if RA is BG, I sincerely hope he gets his justice -- a fair trial, a jury of his peers and LWOP. That's what this is about -- the legal test for withdrawing a US citizen's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

No question this was an unthinkable, unfair, outrageous, devastating crime against AW and LG's family and loved ones. From a legal standpoint, it is unequivocally a crime against the State.

You can't have a civilized society where a young-to-middle-aged man (as seen in BG) accost two little girls at gunpoint, force them to undress, and murder them. It's grossly incongruent, and the State is exercising the law to make surethe party they believe responsible can never do it again.

For this heinous crime against those precious girls, for his crime against the State, against order and civility, for his crime against humanity, may the murderer forever lose the privilege of walking among.

JMO

 

[Tealgrove]

I must constantly remind myself that criminal cases are brought by the State.

What happened to Abby and Libby is awful, horrific, tragic, terrifying, all the words. There is no justice that can bring them back.

That's not what trials are. Trials are about justice for the State, justice for the defendants. Justice, if RA is BG, I sincerely hope he gets his justice -- a fair trial, a jury of his peers and LWOP. That's what this is about -- the legal test for withdrawing a US citizen's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

No question this was an unthinkable, unfair, outrageous, devastating crime against AW and LG's family and loved ones. From a legal standpoint, it is unequivocally a crime against the State.

You can't have a civilized society where a young-to-middle-aged man (as seen in BG) accost two little girls at gunpoint, force them to undress, and murder them. It's grossly incongruent, and the State is exercising the law to make surethe party they believe responsible can never do it again.

For this heinous crime against those precious girls, for his crime against the State, against order and civility, for his crime against humanity, may the murderer forever lose the privilege of walking among.

JMO

And there it is. Perfectly said. Thank you @Megnut.