Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #197

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It is possible, but I think when Richard Allen was being interrogated in October 2022 the investigators would have told him they know he confessed and have a sworn statement from a witness who is willing to testify to it at trial. I think they would have told Richard Allen to see whether or not he would be willing to confess to them. Instead, Richard Allen insisted he is not the killer and did not confess to anything at that time.
We don't know what all was said in that interview, just a tiny snippet. I could easily see him thinking they were lying to him and responding with a, well that person is a liar, I never said that. Deny, deny, deny. MO
 
But RA has said a monumental amount of times he's guilty. So now the defense is going to trot out everyone that LE investigated and then some, to prove what, that LE got the wrong guy? Well his defense team must have forgotten to mention that to RA I guess, when they first signed on, as his lawyers. JMO
He also said he’s innocent. Probably as many times, if not more. The jury will decide what to believe.

As always, JMO.
 
He also said he’s innocent. Probably as many times, if not more. The jury will decide what to believe.

As always, JMO.
Professing innocence and confessing to a crime don't cancel each other out, IMO. It would be like saying, ok I did poison someone's drink 61 times, but think of all the other drinks I have made that were poison free?

These are confessions, not a guilty plea, not opinions you can change. They have a very heavy evidentiary value because, they are, evidence. Especially if they reveal pieces of the puzzle within them, especially if the P can paint a cause and effect picture (found religion, decided to unburden, family rejected him, retracted.)
And yes, that is taking the psychotropic medication into consideration. I don't have the stats for the US, but in the UK:

Table 8 describes psychotropic medicine point-prevalence prescribing rates for prisoner patients, stratified by age and sex. Overall, 16.9% of men and 47.9% of women were in receipt of at least one prescribed psychotropic medication.


Almost half of our female prisoners have been prescribed psychotropic medications and yet we never see spontaneous confessions.

Again, all the arguments will be presented in trial, and it is up to the jury to decide.

All IMO
 
I agree.

I think the perpetrator went there, armed, looking for a victim. If it hadn't been Abby and Libby that day, it would have been someone else at some point. The perpetrator had a fantasy, and he made it real. I don't think he knew ahead of time who his victim would be.

MOO

Yes.

For me it doesn't fit a stalking. The digital link was obvious big, but clearly Digital evidence also pretty clearly ruled out that offender and doesn't suggest RA.

So I think we are left with an opportunistic predator. I am not sure why people are resistant to that idea, as its super common in these abduction type cases. Really the only unusual aspect is two victims.

MOO
 
It is possible, but I think when Richard Allen was being interrogated in October 2022 the investigators would have told him they know he confessed and have a sworn statement from a witness who is willing to testify to it at trial. I think they would have told Richard Allen to see whether or not he would be willing to confess to them. Instead, Richard Allen insisted he is not the killer and did not confess to anything at that time.
Agree about RA confessing to LE before his arrest, why would he? He'd gotten away with it for 5+ years. What if RA confessed to someone else during that 5+ year period? A friend, or a relative, especially if alcohol was involved.

We might very well see that happen during trial.

JMO
 
Yes.

For me it doesn't fit a stalking. The digital link was obvious big, but clearly Digital evidence also pretty clearly ruled out that offender and doesn't suggest RA.

So I think we are left with an opportunistic predator. I am not sure why people are resistant to that idea, as its super common in these abduction type cases. Really the only unusual aspect is two victims.

MOO
It very well could be an opportunistic victim situation and I am not resistant to the idea, I just think it's highly coincidental that Abby and Libby were being catfished by a known CSAM account, A_Shots the very night before they were murdered. LE dug deep into finding a solid connection with KAK and it appears they did not find one.

I've thought RA could have been doing it on his own, not necessarily tied to KAK. It's surely a strange coincidence that RA arrives at trails minutes before Libby and Abby, makes a direct B line to the MHB from the Freedom Trails, no stopping, pausing to enjoy his walk. On a mission head down, hands in pockets, with a knife, gun and a face covering.

Hopefully we will find out more from the trial, that has always been one of my top questions in this case. Did RA know Abby & Libby were going to be there and how?

Here's some statistics:

<snipped >

Overall, 76% of female murders and 56% of male murders were perpetrated by someone known to the victim. About 16% of female murder victims were killed by a nonintimate family member—parent, grandparent, sibling, in-law, and other family member—compared to 10% of male murder victims.

Female Murder Victims and Victim-Offender Relationship, 2021

JMO
 
It very well could be an opportunistic victim situation and I am not resistant to the idea, I just think it's highly coincidental that Abby and Libby were being catfished by a known CSAM account, A_Shots the very night before they were murdered. LE dug deep into finding a solid connection with KAK and it appears they did not find one.

I've thought RA could have been doing it on his own, not necessarily tied to KAK. It's surely a strange coincidence that RA arrives at trails minutes before Libby and Abby, makes a direct B line to the MHB from the Freedom Trails, no stopping, pausing to enjoy his walk. On a mission head down, hands in pockets, with a knife, gun and a face covering.

Hopefully we will find out more from the trial, that has always been one of my top questions in this case. Did RA know Abby & Libby were going to be there and how?

Here's some statistics:

<snipped >

Overall, 76% of female murders and 56% of male murders were perpetrated by someone known to the victim. About 16% of female murder victims were killed by a nonintimate family member—parent, grandparent, sibling, in-law, and other family member—compared to 10% of male murder victims.

Female Murder Victims and Victim-Offender Relationship, 2021

JMO
I'd like to know the stats on how many victims of trail attackers know their attacker, but I doubt that's as easy to find. I suspect it weighs heavily to stranger-on-stranger.

MOO
 
It very well could be an opportunistic victim situation and I am not resistant to the idea, I just think it's highly coincidental that Abby and Libby were being catfished by a known CSAM account, A_Shots the very night before they were murdered. LE dug deep into finding a solid connection with KAK and it appears they did not find one.

I've thought RA could have been doing it on his own, not necessarily tied to KAK. It's surely a strange coincidence that RA arrives at trails minutes before Libby and Abby, makes a direct B line to the MHB from the Freedom Trails, no stopping, pausing to enjoy his walk. On a mission head down, hands in pockets, with a knife, gun and a face covering.

Hopefully we will find out more from the trial, that has always been one of my top questions in this case. Did RA know Abby & Libby were going to be there and how?

Here's some statistics:

<snipped >

Overall, 76% of female murders and 56% of male murders were perpetrated by someone known to the victim. About 16% of female murder victims were killed by a nonintimate family member—parent, grandparent, sibling, in-law, and other family member—compared to 10% of male murder victims.

Female Murder Victims and Victim-Offender Relationship, 2021

JMO

I agree stalking (catfishing) would be a huge redflag. I just think there is no evidence of it.
 
Was the girls going to the bridge not a last minute decision?
Yes, 100%, according to family members.

The theory that has been floating around on and off for years, is that the killer might have access to the A_shots account, and gleaned info on the location of the girls, maybe they were posting about their decision an hour in advance (random speculation). So it wouldn't have been premeditated - as in the perpetrator had been planning to get them to the bridge, but more like, an evil chancher found out they would be at the trails, a relatively remote area, and floored it so he would take advantage of the opportunity.

I don't think the LE have managed to establish ties between the A_shots account and RA. He could have very well covered his tracks, he could have very well gotten hold of the login info of the account.

However, more and more I am leaning towards the 'red herring' side of the fence re: all the catfishing and CSAM material. A_shots had contacted, according KAK trial, countless girls in the area, managed to solicit more than 100 images off of them. Sickening as the thought was, maybe most of the girls around Abby's age, with access to SM, had been contacting by that predator, and that connection has nothing to do with what actually occurred, which IMO was a (different) sick man snapping and destroying the lives of two innocent girls and their families.

All MOO
 
Was the girls going to the bridge not a last minute decision?
As far as I remember, the girls wanted to go there, but had to pass some hurdles until they got their permission finally. To me it says, they urgently wanted to go, but weren't able to do it without Kelsi's "taxi service" and Derek's "pick-up service". Maybe, there was indeed a certain plan, stemming out of the phone- or SM-conversation during their woke-through-night. I don't believe, the girls wanted to go "for some nature photos" only. But I may be wrong of course; it was my feeling the whole time. (I remembered old times from my own youth, when my parents didn't know, that I met a male adult in a town park, pretending I was only babysitting my little sister. My age was 14, just like Abby and Libby.)
 
But RA has said a monumental amount of times he's guilty. So now the defense is going to trot out everyone that LE investigated and then some, to prove what, that LE got the wrong guy? Well his defense team must have forgotten to mention that to RA I guess, when they first signed on, as his lawyers. JMO
Yes, I think the plan is to trot a series of criminals before the jury to disgust them and put the idea in their heads that the area is crawling with perps who hurt young girls. RA has no history of that, but look at all the disgusting men who do. I totally think the defense team wants to muddy the waters.

I don't think the jury will fall for it, fwiw.

jmo
 
Yes, I think the plan is to trot a series of criminals before the jury to disgust them and put the idea in their heads that the area is crawling with perps who hurt young girls. RA has no history of that, but look at all the disgusting men who do. I totally think the defense team wants to muddy the waters.

I don't think the jury will fall for it, fwiw.

jmo
100% that's what I also think is happening.

I'm trying to wrap my mind around it. Have we seen another trial in which the D paraded every sex offender in the area even though it was established there was no proof they were on the scene? ... I'm being pedantic, but it boggles the mind.

But also I do understand this is a very unique investigation and the number of "online suspects" were always going to be a problem, with how feverishly a chunk of the public opinion latched on to them. Thankfully not on this forum, but I digress.

All MOO
 
Yes, I think the plan is to trot a series of criminals before the jury to disgust them and put the idea in their heads that the area is crawling with perps who hurt young girls. RA has no history of that, but look at all the disgusting men who do. I totally think the defense team wants to muddy the waters.

I don't think the jury will fall for it, fwiw.

jmo
Great theory!
I've looked at all of them and have found only one tie that binds them. All are from different areas, all are convicted of different crimes. The only thing I've found that they have in common is they are in Indiana prisons.
MOO
 
Great theory!
I've looked at all of them and have found only one tie that binds them. All are from different areas, all are convicted of different crimes. The only thing I've found that they have in common is they are in Indiana prisons.
MOO
Another thing they have in common is they are not BG.

jmo
 
Well I wouldn't call it anti-defense, I think that it's more being leery and a bit jaded because of what these particular defense attorneys have done. It's been a loooong and rocky road. I sure hope there's no more antics from them at trial. AJMO
I think it is not because what these particular attorneys have done, I think it is just that people don't like the defense side in general--because of the nature of their job defending murderers. If you look through the various threads on WS, inevitably there are those who accuse the defense of playing games, of causing more pain and distress to the families of the victims, of lying, of being disrespectful, etc. That is what is occurring in this case, and this is what has happened in numerous other cases, for example, the Alex Murdaugh case, the Barry Morphew case, and the Casey Anthony case. There are more. I will not link posts because it will look like I am targeting individual posters, and I am not, I am just saying that people never like the defense team, and this case is no different. JMO
 
I think it is not because what these particular attorneys have done, I think it is just that people don't like the defense side in general--because of the nature of their job defending murderers. If you look through the various threads on WS, inevitably there are those who accuse the defense of playing games, of causing more pain and distress to the families of the victims, of lying, of being disrespectful, etc. That is what is occurring in this case, and this is what has happened in numerous other cases, for example, the Alex Murdaugh case, the Barry Morphew case, and the Casey Anthony case. There are more. I will not link posts because it will look like I am targeting individual posters, and I am not, I am just saying that people never like the defense team, and this case is no different. JMO
That is one theory, and I don't entirely disagree - in general, I'd expect more people to have sympathy for the victims vs the alleged perpetrator and their team.

I wanted to speak about TMS and their leanings in particular. MS is led by an attorney and a journalist, and they were both VERY critical of the way JG ran the court, they were VERY critical of the probably cause affidavit, and a few of NML moves in the past. I have been listening to them since the early KAK discovery and I remembered being annoyed at how softly worded all their reporting was towards the accused. If anything they 'anti Defence' (or rather 'mad at the D & the internet sleuths batting for the D') has been a recent development, and seeing how the Pro Defence SM talks about them, tearing their appearance to pieces etc, I can't blame them.

PS: There has been a pro-Defence shift in recent years. 100%, compared to the early 90s and the 'curb all crime, punish everyone,' ppl tend to have more sympathy for convicted criminals. We all witnessed it with the Adnan Syed case (which IMO is a very strong open and shut case), and the few cases popularised by podcasts/netflix, see: Making a Murderer. However, in the past year or two, I see a massive popular switch to pro-conspiracy thinking online/anti P, that's altogether different than the 'maybe this person is innocent' and more 'the LE is bad/wrong as a principle'. See Karen Reid case, Scott Peterson's new fandom etc.

All MOO
 
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