Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #198

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AugustWest said:
Motions in limine are filed routinely and in every case in the country on a daily basis on the eve of trial. "In limine" means "at the threshold," as in at the threshold of trial.

www.law.cornell.edu

in limine

www.law.cornell.edu www.law.cornell.edu
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Just because someone could do something, doesn't mean they should, IMO. Is there no such thing as frivolous motions due to repetition or lack of merit that might do nothing but frustrate the court? At this point I'm only curious.
 
SouthEnd said:
Just because someone could do something, doesn't mean they should, IMO. Is there no such thing as frivolous motions due to repetition or lack of merit that might do nothing but frustrate the court? At this point I'm only curious.
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I am not a lawyer, but I think there is some value in getting EVERYTHING on record, even if it doesn't seem to matter. Some nugget might be in there for the defense to later use on appeal.

jmo
 
SouthEnd said:
TMS just announced a book:

Shadow of the Bridge: The Delphi Murders and the Dark Side of the American Heartland​

.


Rbbm:

Most importantly, in working closely with the German and Williams families, Cain and Greenlee tell the stories of who these two warm, bright, and promising girls were to all who cared for them.

Hopefully this means that the book is going to have Abby and Libby in the heart of it.
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This is a good thing, IMO. Now maybe it will be OK for others to do it without looking bad.
 
StarryStarryNight said:
Hey!
Look everybody!
The defense filed a motion on the Friday afternoon before the trial starts!
How very shocking!
I am shocked that this is even necessary since RA is “factually innocent”.

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yep, they do NOT want inmates who may have witnessed RA's demeanor and mental state when making those 60 plus confessions testifying as to their impressions of his mental state when making them.

MOO those inmates are not medical professionals or experts but they have eyes and should certainly be allowed to describe their general impressions of RA while making them. But they should NOT be allowed to opine or suggest anything one way or another on his mental health. Period.

DT cites 704 of Indiana rules of evidence.

(a) In General-Not Automatically Objectionable. Testimony in the form of an opinion or inference otherwise admissible is not objectionable just because it embraces an ultimate issue.(b) Exception. Witnesses may not testify to opinions concerning intent, guilt, or innocence in a criminal case; the truth or falsity of allegations; whether a witness has testified truthfully; or legal conclusions.

MOO as long as the state doesn't ask them to opine on mental health there is no issue. The state knows better but DT wants them put on warning anyway. Doesn't mean the State shouldn't or can't ask about RA's overall demeanor, behaviors, etc. JMO
 
AugustWest said:
Why do you think this is frivolous? It's extremely normal.
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I suppose it appears frivolous to me as a layperson to say "these witnesses are not mental health professionals". Since imo the judge will say "I know, let's only ask them to report on what they witnessed". Some of the recent motions in limine seems needless to me, the way the 3 FMs appeared frivolous and repetitive to me, again, as a layperson who only had to deal with corporate law.

Edit: JMO
 
SouthEnd said:
I suppose it appears frivolous to me as a layperson to say "these witnesses are not mental health professionals". Since imo the judge will say "I know, let's only ask them to report on what they witnessed". Some of the recent motions in limine seems needless to me, the way the 3 FMs appeared frivolous and repetitive to me, again, as a layperson who only had to deal with corporate law.

Edit: JMO
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If you understood why they are doing it, you wouldn't have a big problem with it. They are doing so for the benefit of the court; for efficiency. This saves the court the time of (1) waiting for the issue to come up during trial; (2) an objection to be made; (3) a sidebar occurring to discuss the issue; (4) the judge asking the jury to get up and leave the courtroom so they don't hear any possibly prejudicial information; then (5) questioning of the witness(es) by both sets of attorneys. Rather than do this, we do it prior to trial so we don't waste people's time with procedure.
 
AugustWest said:
If you understood why they are doing it, you wouldn't have a big problem with it. They are doing so for the benefit of the court; for efficiency. This saves the court the time of (1) waiting for the issue to come up during trial; (2) an objection to be made; (3) a sidebar occurring to discuss the issue; (4) the judge asking the jury to get up and leave the courtroom so they don't hear any possibly prejudicial information; then (5) questioning of the witness(es) by both sets of attorneys. Rather than do this, we do it prior to trial so we don't waste people's time with procedure.
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This is extremely useful for my layperson brain that gets frustrated during sidebars. Thank you for patiently explaining this! I was mostly wondering if something like 'non-experts shouldn't be asked to give expert testimony' was not already a rule of court that didn't need a motion raised, but I suppose the legal system works in its own way.
 
On Inmate Companions in Indiana - an excellent article here. What they are meant to do and not meant to do. Their lack of 'training', but intent to raise the immediate alarm should a 'watched' inmate attempt to, or resort to, self-harm. Used outside of hours when an actual qualified mental health professional cannot be present with the inmate. Indiana is amongst many states that utilize companions and small 2005 study also found using suicide companions in federal settings reduced the time a suicidal individual spent on watch.

Each month, suicide companions in Indiana’s prisons monitor dozens of people on suicide watch. Prisons in Kansas, South Carolina, Michigan and New Mexico also use suicide companions. Federal prisons have used suicide companions since at least the 1980s, and prisons outside the U.S. have similar programs.

“We've kind of gotten this idea of: Let's use our most abundant resource in the correction setting, which is inmates,” said Christine Tartaro, a professor at Stockton University in New Jersey who studies suicide in prisons and jails. “Every prison has an abundance of inmates.”

Tartaro said companions aren’t meant to replace trained mental health staff.

“It could be tempting for budget-minded corrections facilities to just say, ‘Oh, we have these inmates. Therefore, I don't need to hire a psychologist. I don't need that social worker,’” she said.
...
But Tartaro said she sees the benefits of the suicide companion approach. Prisons are often understaffed, especially when it comes to counselors, and people in crisis may trust their peers more than doctors or guards.

In Indiana, the suicide companion program also helps cut costs.

“We're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars saved every year in staff overtime,” said Bill Elliott, a psychologist who helped implement Indiana’s program. “The rewards were as much for the person being the companion as they were for the inmate patient who was being watched. It gave them a sense of meaning and fulfillment.”

A small 2005 study also found using suicide companions in federal settings reduced the time a suicidal individual spent on watch.
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Important to note that, by sworn testimony, RA had access to his professional mental health assistance every day.

www.sideeffectspublicmedia.org

In some prisons, people on suicide watch are monitored by peers, not professionals

People who have threatened to harm themselves can be placed on what’s known as suicide watch, where they’re constantly monitored by a mental health professional. But in some prisons, suicide watch works differently.
www.sideeffectspublicmedia.org www.sideeffectspublicmedia.org
 
Vern said:
On Inmate Companions in Indiana - an excellent article here. What they are meant to do and not meant to do. Their lack of 'training', but intent to raise the immediate alarm should a 'watched' inmate attempt to, or resort to, self-harm. Used outside of hours when an actual qualified mental health professional cannot be present with the inmate. Indiana is amongst many states that utilize companions and small 2005 study also found using suicide companions in federal settings reduced the time a suicidal individual spent on watch.



Important to note that, by sworn testimony, RA had access to his professional mental health assistance every day.

www.sideeffectspublicmedia.org

In some prisons, people on suicide watch are monitored by peers, not professionals

People who have threatened to harm themselves can be placed on what’s known as suicide watch, where they’re constantly monitored by a mental health professional. But in some prisons, suicide watch works differently.
www.sideeffectspublicmedia.org www.sideeffectspublicmedia.org
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Thank you so much for the resources! That was my understanding
 
repeated franks motions aside - LATELY the DT has been filing normal and customary motions. JMO

None of this will or is meant to delay the trial. It will move forward with jury selection on Monday and prior to opening statements the judge will have ruled on the DT's motion in Limine and any other outstanding motions that may be filed by them or the state by Monday afternoon MOO
 
sunshineray said:
Gotta love that Google AI, sometimes they just hit the nail on the head. At the very end of the definition/description of "in limine"...

"While motions in limine can be a useful tool for trial lawyers, they can also waste time and money if filed improperly."

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Google gets a gold star for stating the bleeping obvious.

I have no issue with this motion. It was short and to the point and actually seemed relevant to a sensible defense strategy.

MOO
 
tlcya said:
repeated franks motions aside - LATELY the DT has been filing normal and customary motions. JMO

None of this will or is meant to delay the trial. It will move forward with jury selection on Monday and prior to opening statements the judge will have ruled on the DT's motion in Limine and any other outstanding motions that may be filed by them or the state by Monday afternoon MOO
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thank you so much for the additional clarifications! I feel so burned by the FMs, that I have lost some of my goodwill towards the way the D litigates. Lets see how many sidebars will be in the trial proper...
 
Sillybilly said:
ADMIN NOTE:

Snark is disrespectful and a violation of Websleuths rules. Rather than ridicule others for their opinion, it's really possible just to scroll and roll without the snarky comments.
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My apologies for overlooking a very important Admin Note from the previous thread when preparing this one.
 
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