About the pineapple

[BBB167893]

Super D can you tell us the name of your book and where to purchase it?

The title is JonBenet Ramsey

How Wealth and Politics Won Over Truth and Justice

And at present, it can't be purchased because it hasn't been published yet. I'm working on that.

The pineapple is one thing that really bothered me along with no fingerprints on the flashlight or batteries, oh yeah and the practice note..and on and on. What has haunted me is coverage I heard on TV after Patsy died (my local news comes out of Atlanta) and I thought I heard reported (Please Note this is I thought) that one of Patsy's friends was describing the last time she saw her, or her last minutes, and said Patsy said "somethings you just can't take back" to this friend, I think the last words she spoke to this friend. It was not a special coverage report, just one of the mini wraps of the days news. I have googled and searched to my limited knowledge but is there anyone out there that can tell me how to find where I can research any mention of her death on any of the channels out of Atlanta to see if I "really" heard this. I just remember getting cold chills and thinking OMG surely the friend could see that was a confession, she shouldn't be on TV saying that. But maybe it was a wishful thinking dream.

That was Pam Griffin, I believe.

 

[Becky319]

The title is JonBenet Ramsey

How Wealth and Politics Won Over Truth and Justice

And at present, it can't be purchased because it hasn't been published yet. I'm working on that.



That was Pam Griffin, I believe.

Thanks Dave. I will check out Pam Griffin. I enjoy reading your post, you always have the facts to back up what you say.

 

[Solace]

Hi, I'm new here. I've read a lot about the pineapple evidence in JonBenet's intestines & how a lot of people believe that Patsy was lying when she said JB didn't have any pineapple before going to bed. I think it's very possible that there was no "pineapple coverup" because PR may not have known that JB had the snack. PR was telling the truth. This is what I picture: Patsy & John are in bed & so are the kids (or so Patsy thinks). Kids are notorious for sneaking out of their beds after the parents have gone to sleep. Using a flashlight (there was one in Burke's room & also this could account for a neighbor seeing a flickering light on in the kitchen), it's possible that Burke & JB went down into the kitchen (or Burke might have gone first & JB heard him & followed him). The reason I say Burke may have gone first is because I think the pineapple was originally meant to be Burke's snack. Two things point to this: there was a glass of tea next to the bowl. I remember reading where Burke liked to drink tea in a tall glass. Also, JB's fingerprints were not on the bowl, glass or spoon, but Burke's were. So, there's Burke, trying to have his snack in peace & his pesky little sister comes along & tries to take some of the chunks out of the bowl with her fingers, thus not leaving any fingerprints (I mean no disrespect to JB here - my heart breaks for her - but some of us know how annoying younger siblings can be). Perhaps they started bickering, Burke hit her on the head w/the flashlight - not realizing the deadly consequences. Once JB was knocked out, he panicked & ran to his parents' room & they began the cover-up. OR - it's also possible that NOTHING sinister happened as Burke & JB ate the pineapple. Perhaps they just ate a little bit & went back to bed. This is where my intruder theory comes in. I believe that someone came into the house after the kids were back in their rooms asleep (no forced entry? didn't have to be one - why couldn't the killer have a key or perhaps one of the doors was unlocked, thus permitting easy access to the house? Also very possible that the basement window was the point of entry - I tend to suspect it was the latter). I believe it was supposed to be a kidnapping. The rambling ransom note was written beforehand & carried in the killer's pocket. Yes, the pad & pen came from the house. If the killer had a key or perhaps was known to the Ramseys, he could've easily taken the pad & pen with him at an earlier time when he was in the house (perhaps visiting the Ramseys?) so as to implicate the Ramseys later on. He went up to JB's room (this person was very familiar with the Ramsey house) & stun-gunned her. Why did he need to do this? An adult could easily overpower a 45-lb little girl, right? Right - except why take the chance of the girl struggling or screaming during the abduction, thus alerting her parents or brother? It was easier (and safer) to render her unconscious. Once he got to her bedroom, perhaps JB wasn't sound asleep & did struggle a little bit (thus explaining the hair ties scattered on the floor & the disturbed drape behind the bed). The killer subdues her with the stun-gun, carries her down the spiral staircase (this is where tiny pieces of the green Christmas garland wrapped around the staircase gets caught in her hair). He takes her down to the basement & plans to hoist her through the broken window through which he gained access to. But, something goes horribly wrong. JB woke up at this time & began to struggle & scream (neighbor heard a scream). Panicking, the killer hits her hard on the head w/his own flashlight, rendering her unconscious. But, he thinks that he killed her - thus the kidnapping has been foiled. He decides to cut his losses & leave the body in the basement, but before he departs, he sexually molests JB, using the makeshift garrote as part of a sexual bondage fantasy. Once done, he leaves the scene of the crime, forgetting all about the RN he left upstairs.

the problem is the poiint of entry. There was a spider web on the window undisturbed. No point of entry.

It is an interesting theory, but there is also the problem of the prior sexual abuse and there was prior sexual abuse per the autopsy report.

 

[madeleine]

Oh the pineapple.......

The bowl on the kitchen table
+ Patsy's prints on it
+ JB eating some right before she died

+ "A neighbor to the north would say that the butler kitchen lights were on around midnight and considered that unsual since it was the first time he had noticed that light being on in the Ramsey home." ("JonBenet, Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation Page 45")

+ "She (Stanton)now claimed to have heard the piercing scream of a child between midnight and two o'clock in the morning of December 26." ("JonBenet, Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation Page 71")




What more do you need??
It's just so obvious what happened there.............

 

[madeleine]

One more thing...both Patsy and JB wearing the same clothes as the night before?Sorry,what kind of coincidence is that?They didn't even go to bed that night IMO,maybe Burke...

 

[tumble]

The pineapple, the big bugaboo Lou Smit just couldn't explain.

I really don't like your explanation of the ransom note. You say he wrote it before with a pen he had taken from the house and then bring the pen back on the day of the kidnapping. If he was going to kidnap JB why would he want to implicate the Ramseys with the "pen" scheme? Do you actually suggest that he intended the Ramseys to pay him money at the same time LE would think the Ramseys was paying themselves? Also, why leave the note on the staircase when he decided to leave the body? And why did the kidnapper turn into a molester(not saying I'm sure JB was molested)?

 

[Ames]

The pineapple, the big bugaboo Lou Smit just couldn't explain.

I really don't like your explanation of the ransom note. You say he wrote it before with a pen he had taken from the house and then bring the pen back on the day of the kidnapping. If he was going to kidnap JB why would he want to implicate the Ramseys with the "pen" scheme? Do you actually suggest that he intended the Ramseys to pay him money at the same time LE would think the Ramseys was paying themselves? Also, why leave the note on the staircase when he decided to leave the body? And why did the kidnapper turn into a molester(not saying I'm sure JB was molested)?

Right! And why call yourself a member of a Small Foreign Faction..that took responsiblity for the kidnapping/murder....if you are going to try and pin it on the Ramsey's? That just doesn't make any sense at all.

And right again! Why leave the note, if there wasn't a kidnapping to begin with? The kidnapper supposedly took JB down that spiral staircase...SOOOO..if the note was left before "he" took JB from her bed, then how did he get around it at the bottom of the stairs, he would have had to have leaped over it, like Patsy said that she did...all the while carrying a six year old. HMMMMM. And why would he have left it AFTERWARD....after the killing? Makes no sense at all...none of it. Patsy wrote that note, and it was NEVER on those stairs of the spiral staircase...IMO

 

[madeleine]

Right! And why call yourself a member of a Small Foreign Faction..that took responsiblity for the kidnapping/murder....if you are going to try and pin it on the Ramsey's? That just doesn't make any sense at all.

And right again! Why leave the note, if there wasn't a kidnapping to begin with? The kidnapper supposedly took JB down that spiral staircase...SOOOO..if the note was left before "he" took JB from her bed, then how did he get around it at the bottom of the stairs, he would have had to have leaped over it, like Patsy said that she did...all the while carrying a six year old. HMMMMM. And why would he have left it AFTERWARD....after the killing? Makes no sense at all...none of it. Patsy wrote that note, and it was NEVER on those stairs of the spiral staircase...IMO

Re the note,I agree with H.Lee even if I am no fan of his.Why didn't they use the touch dna technology on the ransom note?
And okay,they found a match on the pants,what must I think now,that he only touched her pants without gloves and that's it?Something isn't right.

What did they do?Did they only check the pants because that's what they needed,one match in order to clear the R's?
IMO by wanting to close a door they opened another 1000.


If there is a match on those pants that can't be the only one.The so called intruder didn't remove his gloves just to remove/put her pants back on.No way.It's either his touch dna is all over the place but they didn't look for it or I don't know what this is all about.(I know but I am tired of talking about M.Lacy )

 

[Ames]

Re the note,I agree with H.Lee even if I am no fan of his.Why didn't they use the touch dna technology on the ransom note?
And okay,they found a match on the pants,what must I think now,that he only touched her pants without gloves and that's it?Something isn't right.

What did they do?Did they only check the pants because that's what they needed,one match in order to clear the R's?
IMO by wanting to close a door they opened another 1000.


If there is a match on those pants that can't be the only one.The so called intruder didn't remove his gloves just to remove/put her pants back on.No way.It's either his touch dna is all over the place but they didn't look for it or I don't know what this is all about.(I know but I am tired of talking about M.Lacy )

I agree! Kinda funny that the ONLY thing that they tested was those longjohns. There are WAY more things that could be tested, than those. Not only the RN, but the blanket that she was found wrapped in, the garotte, the broken paintbrush, the pen that was used to write the RN with, the duct tape...etc. etc. The list just goes on and on. Touch DNA can come from anybody...like if I shook your hand, and you touched something..then MY touch DNA would be found on the thing that you touched. I believe that the Touch DNA that was found on her long johns, was from transference. There is something suspicious about that touch dna found on them, I agree with you.

 

[DeeDee249]

That white blanket, and the tape would be a BIG clue. IF the unknown DNA was also found there, it would at least eliminate JBR from being the cause of the innocent transfer. Why hasn't it been? Because the RST knows it isn't there.
In my mind- the wood latch is also a MAJOR player in the "touch DNA" sweepstakes. NO ONE would "casually" touch that latch, and JBR herself couldn't reach it. So if it is found on the latch, it at least eliminates JBR from the possible causes. It doesn't eliminate the parents, as if their hands had been the source of the touch DNA (through a handshake or some other innocent transfer) one of them touched the wood latch as well. Of course, BR could reach it if he stepped up on that chair...the one that was found just outside the door in the next room just a few steps away. You know- the chair that the "intruder" COULD have used to climb out the window but instead chose to pull it against the front of a door by reaching through the CLOSED door and balance himself on a suitcase that we KNOW would have falle dover as soon as someone pushed off on it. Oh, I see. The "intruder" must have been a ghost and not subject to the laws of physics regarding pulling solid objects through a closed door.
Do you think LE removed that wood latch from the house and put it in evidence?
My vote- NO.

 

[madeleine]

IMo they have to test everything in order to exclude an intruder.The R's touch dna must be all over the place and that doesn't point to their guilt,it was their house,their kid.The absence of an intruder does.

It was the "Jonbenet Investigation" documentary in which was said that it's either "The Ramsey's did it but they can't be linked to the crime because they live in the house" or "It was an intruder,but the BP contaminated or missed what he left" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cw1w3zZXeY (@min 7:29)

IMO there is no evidence of an intruder because there wasn't one but I guess IDI's can argue that it was the BPD who missed what he left,fair enough.Time will tell hopefully.

 

[orb4me]

After reading all of this, and after all these years, ive changed my mind. I knew they had shipped the brother out quickly, but I never thought he had anything to do with it. I guess we will never know.

 

[NanK]

The pineapple and the tea both have me puzzled: Burke's prints were on both objects plus Patsy's was on only one (probably from unloading the dishwasher). If the pineapple was old, like from a day before, it should have been removed and the dishes loaded up in the dishwasher because they were going on two trips back to back unless Patsy was just going to leave it to the housekeeper - that would be gross and unthoughtful and I can't picture Patsy doing this for some reason. They did go to a party, had to drop off gifts too and she wasn't finished packing so her mind was probably set on meeting all her holiday obligations and then rushing at the end to fit in the packing. Giving a child tea late a night requires that someone boil the water, steep the bag and most parents will remove the tea bag after a few dips so as not to keep the child up all night hyped on caffeine. However, giving a young child hot tea in a glass? with no handle? unlikely. Plus hot tea for a child would take a while to consume and so late at night and I don't think Patsy wanted to sit around for that - again unlikely due to the fact they all had to be up very early the next morning and it was all gone evaporated in the crime scene photo. Also, when my kids eat out of dishes I always expect and ask them to clear their dishes to the counter or sink. Now, tea and pineapple are both a hot and cold snack - that's a recipe for a stomach ache for anyone, let alone a child. Personally, I wouldn't have allowed this snack so late at night - maybe weak tea and toast or milk and peanut butter sandwich and again, I have to remove dishes to the counter because I set my table every night to be clean and tidy even at Christmas time. Now, if the tea was cold like ice tea, usually it is pre-made in a pitcher and poured in a glass and the tea bags discarded - also we don't put sugar in and let everyone add to each glass as they like it. So, the large spoon for little Jonbenet would be awkward and the odd late-night snack combo makes me think that mabye both items were not on the table at the same time but just left there Plus they had a big party on the 23rd so those dishes for sure would have been cleaned up - those dishes most likely wound up on the table from morning of 24th to afternoon of 25th. I don't think the perp brought pineapple with him either so because it was Christmas and so much rushing around, I can see how Patsy is wishy-washy sometimes with her answers. Sometimes I can barely remember what I did the day before or what I ate for dinner I am so busy and Christmas falls totally on my shoulders. Maybe Jonbenet went downstairs to get a snack, found the pineapple nibbled on it and bumped into the perp(s) by accident, it's possible. My kids are always snacking on stuff and if they can't sleep then they munch on tons of stuff one after the other. That is my deduction of those items anyway.

 

[NanK]

Your post got me thinking: why would the intruder feel the need to sit there and write out long hand a practice note (the practicing in the house makes me think it was all last minute done on the spur of the moment in the house while the Ramsey's were out) and then a full ransom note on top of that, in the first place - the perp(s) could have just kidnapped Jonbenet and beelined out of the house which would have been faster and less risky for the perp(s) and called the next morning with instructions instead. But was the Ramsey's home phone number listed or unlisted at the time? Was the phone number listed on the home phone itself for the perp(s) to see and this would be risky to pick up the phone and get possible prints on there or DNA so maybe that's why a note was necessary. Plus the Ramsey's had a housekeeper - how did the perp(s) know for sure the housekeeper wasn't going to drop by at some point last minute before their trips - that was a possibility. If the perp(s) were hiding in the basement on the 25th, they could have been found out easily by the housekeeper. To me, this perp(s) had definate prior knowledge of the Ramsey's movements and schedule on the 25th. Also, Jonbenet had a bad cold I've read - how was the perp so sure the Ramsey's wouldn't have returned to the house early or doubled-back because they forgot a gift or something. This perp(s) were very comfortable in that house and took a huge chance lingering in there. As well, the perp(s) would have seen that the Ramsey's had an alarm system so that was a huge risk on their part - Ramsey himself could have decided to set it before bed (so then how would they get out with her without setting off the system) then reset it when the Ramseys left the house for an extended period of time for the trip the morning of Dec 26. Someone knew that the alarm was never used and they didn't have dog present in the house either. Just too much insider knowledge and many big risks taken - either the perp(s) were on drugs with distorted decision-making or just brazen.

 

[Chris_Texas]

There are so many baffling aspects to this case, and I believe that many are red herrings.

First, I believe that the Ramsey's were far more accomplished liars than they are given credit for. I think they often gave false and misleading statements in order to misdirect the investigation.

Was JB asleep after the party? We don't know. The evidence we have comes from a suspect. Did she eat some pineapple? We know she did, and we know about when, but that's it.

 

[NanK]

Also, there was a practice note thrown away in the garbage, if the intruder already had it in his pocket, why would that be there? I do like how you think though because I was thinking the same thing. That the pad and pen could have been taken before that night.

If there was a practice note discarded in the garbage, then this probably indicates that the note was written upstairs in that area which would require turning on a light which would be too risky so a flashlight would be necessary but that also would look strange to neighbours who might catch a glance of a flashlight moving around inside the Ramsey's house while they aren't home. And at that time of year it gets dark very early like @5pm or something and the Ramsey's were gone by then to the party so a flashlight would have been necessary probably. But the perp(s) wouldn't have lugged along a flashlight that was huge with a long handle - that would look suspicious in case they were stopped by a cop partrolling the area on that night. Plus that was an affluent part of Boulder, wouldn't the cops be required to make at least one pass through that neighbourhood at some point? and is there record of that? Also, if the perp(s) left by car - wouldn't they have exited the neighbourhood and possibly been caught on camera surveillance say at an intersection or in front of a store? If the perp(s) came on foot they wouldn't have brought a huge flashlight to carry on their person - it could fall out (which I find very unlikely because how would they get the body out of the neighbourhood without being seen by someone) most likely it was by car which would have meant possibly parking around the corner to allude detection by the neighbours but then that would have meant walking down the street with the body - that's way too risky - which makes me think there was a driver and a kidnapper involved. Also, how was the kidnapper so sure the whole family would just go to sleep - quite often my sleeping pattern is messed up on the holidays from sleeping in and staying up late with friends and I am cleaning, wrapping etc. into the night - so how was the perp(s) so sure things would go smoothly - again a big gamble with the whole family present in the house. You would think the kidnappers would subdue the parents by knocking them out or something so that the kidnapping would go off without a hitch - again, way too many risks taken on the perp(s) part. Plus, in the ransom note they never mention Patsy or Jonbenet's name once (they say: your daughter) her name is unusual and hard to spell so maybe they didn't attempt to spell it because that would give a clue as to their familiarity with her. Also, the flashlight was found upstairs not beside her body - so did the perp(s) hit her on the head and then use the flashlight to make their way upstairs then deposit it on the counter? Just so many unanswered questions.

 

[DeeDee249]

Actually, neighbor did report to police that they saw "strange, moving lights" in the kitchen around midnight. The flashlight was found on a counter in the kitchen area. And another neighbor heard the scream around the same time.
I thought there was a "practice" note (or was in an impression in the paper" still on the pad given to police. Patsy admitted writing the practice note, which consisted of the words "Mr. and Mrs. R..."
She claimed it was the beginning of a party invitation. Odd- usually it is a wedding invitation that begins "Mr & Mrs. XYZ request the honor of your presence..etc".
What I have never seen an answer to is whether LE or anyone ever wondered how Patsy, who admitted to writing the practice note, was not confronted by LE about the handwriting on he practice note matching the handwriting on the RN. She was never asked why or how that could happen. If you saw them side by side, the handwriting of the RN salutation "Mr. Ramsey"....matches the practice note salutation exactly. The only difference is the wording- which changed from being addressed to both parents to being addressed to JR only.

 

[NanK]

Actually, neighbor did report to police that they saw "strange, moving lights" in the kitchen around midnight. The flashlight was found on a counter in the kitchen area. And another neighbor heard the scream around the same time.
I thought there was a "practice" note (or was in an impression in the paper" still on the pad given to police. Patsy admitted writing the practice note, which consisted of the words "Mr. and Mrs. R..."
She claimed it was the beginning of a party invitation. Odd- usually it is a wedding invitation that begins "Mr & Mrs. XYZ request the honor of your presence..etc".
What I have never seen an answer to is whether LE or anyone ever wondered how Patsy, who admitted to writing the practice note, was not confronted by LE about the handwriting on he practice note matching the handwriting on the RN. She was never asked why or how that could happen. If you saw them side by side, the handwriting of the RN salutation "Mr. Ramsey"....matches the practice note salutation exactly. The only difference is the wording- which changed from being addressed to both parents to being addressed to JR only.

Thank you for that information - this is the first time I have read that Patsy admitted to writing a practice note on her writing tablet. Why the cops let that slide about the fact that it may have matched the ransom note is puzzling - so if she admitted to writing on her tablet for an invitation that shows that she is being up front about that information at least. However, I looked at samples of her handwriting online and it changes here and there and sometimes it is even neater on some documents so it was really hard to say definatively that she wrote the ransom note. The ransom note (the writing) looks very unsteady to me like someone was nervous writing it. Interestingly, I read that Burke overheard John trying to calm Patsy down after they found the note and that he pretended to be asleep in his bed. So that is proof from Burke himself that she was upset upon finding it and that Burke heard her being upset.

 

[DeeDee249]

Thank you for that information - this is the first time I have read that Patsy admitted to writing a practice note on her writing tablet. Why the cops let that slide about the fact that it may have matched the ransom note is puzzling - so if she admitted to writing on her tablet for an invitation that shows that she is being up front about that information at least. However, I looked at samples of her handwriting online and it changes here and there and sometimes it is even neater on some documents so it was really hard to say definatively that she wrote the ransom note. The ransom note (the writing) looks very unsteady to me like someone was nervous writing it. Interestingly, I read that Burke overheard John trying to calm Patsy down after they found the note and that he pretended to be asleep in his bed. So that is proof from Burke himself that she was upset upon finding it and that Burke heard her being upset.

Of course the note would reflect the shaky handwriting of a nervous person regardless of who wrote it by virtue of what it IS. It may also not have been written with the dominant hand (as in a right-handed person writing with the left hand). Patsy was said to be ambidextrous, but even people who can write with either hand will show a difference in their writing. Her daughter was dead. So unsteady is putting it mildly. We have no proof that Patsy was upset at "finding" the note. Patsy was upset- that much is certain. If she wrote the note, then she didn't really find it. BR very likely heard some commotion- he admits to hearing yelling and running about. He claims to have pretended he was asleep.
You have to realize that the only CERTAIN eyewitnesses (or "ear-witnesses) to whatever happened in the R home that night and morning are BR, JR and Patsy. And of those three, two are still under the "umbrella of suspicion" and the third would be as well if he had been two weeks older.

 

[meganx3xo]

I find it odd that JB had pineapple in her small intestine- but nothing from the Whites party. Is that correct? Sorry, not super good with the anatomy. I find it odd also about that night. How far did the Whites live from the Rs? I know they stopped, and JB and JR stayed in the car, but shouldn't they have been talking about their Christmas- did you like what you got? Are you bringing anything new to MI or the Cruise? Then again pretty much everything is odd about this case.

Also, where can I see pictures from the White's Christmas party regarding clothes? I think that part of ACR is under construction.

Thanks!