GUILTY Afghanistan - US Soldier guns down 16 civilians, 2012 Kandahar massacre

[michmi]

^^^^the fact that this might have been done by more than 1 person crossed my mind when the story broke. Sadly, it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[essies]

[video=youtube;Lf2Dt3-nwZk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf2Dt3-nwZk[/video]

democracynow.org - U.S. lawmakers want the Pentagon to explain why the soldier accused in the massacre of 16 Afghan villagers was sent back into combat after suffering a traumatic brain injury in Iraq. We look at whether soldiers are receiving the mental health treatment they need with Kevin Baker, an Iraq War veteran struggling with post-traumatic stress disorder from the same base as the Afghan shooting suspect, Joint Base Lewis-McChord. "It's not an isolated incident. It's not unique to Fort Lewis. This is a military-wide epidemic," Baker says. "The military is incapable of helping its servicemembers. These are young men and women from working families that join the military and put their lives on the line. And when they come home, they're not being treated properly." We also speak with ProPublica's Joaquin Sapien, co-author of an investigative series called "Brain Wars: How the Military Is Failing Its Wounded."

 

[annalia]

We also dont know 'that combat situations broke him down.' whatever caused him to do this may just be something inherant in him.
Whatever problems one has arent good enough reasons for murdering women and children.
Many in the military experience stressful situations and deal without slaughtering children .
Its amazing the number of people who if this were a civilian killer wouldnt care less about his damaged little psyche seem to want to extenuate this mans guilt because he's in the Military.
He's a child murderer and needs to pay for his attrocities like any other child murderer.
A good enough 'reason' doesnt exist.Nor should our other military men and women be smeared because of his actions.
Sadly its pretty inevitable others will pay for his actions.
.

Actually we do know that on his third tour of duty he suffered a traumatic brain injury yet he was sent back out on a fourth tour. That's much more serious than a damaged little psyche. It would be like saying a soldier who lost a limb had a little boo-boo. Just because we can't see a brain injury the same way we can see when a soldier loses a limb doesn't make it any less real or serious.

I haven't seen anyone say that he should be excused simply because he's in the military. He's not a civilian, there's no comparison, imvho.

I can't speak for others but for me those factors can't be ignored. It's not making excuses, it's a reality, his traumatic brain injury isn't just made up. We haven't heard anything about this soldier having behavioral issues prior to his accident when he was on his previous three tours.

He'll be charged, most likely convicted, the possibility is there that he may get the death penalty. Discussing whether or not he should have been taken care of when he suffered his injury by the ones who send our soldiers to war, discussing whether a soldier who had already served three tours without incident then suffers a serious injury might have led to this atrocity, isn't going to change that.

Maybe more information will come out and we'll hear that he did have issues and problems even prior to his injury but for now I'm not just going to make things up, I'd prefer to just go on what we know.

JMHO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Actually we do know that on his third tour of duty he suffered a traumatic brain injury yet he was sent back out on a fourth tour. That's much more serious than a damaged little psyche. It would be like saying a soldier who lost a limb had a little boo-boo. Just because we can't see a brain injury the same way we can see when a soldier loses a limb doesn't make it any less real or serious.

I haven't seen anyone say that he should be excused simply because he's in the military. He's not a civilian, there's no comparison, imvho.

I can't speak for others but for me those factors can't be ignored. It's not making excuses, it's a reality, his traumatic brain injury isn't just made up. We haven't heard anything about this soldier having behavioral issues prior to his accident when he was on his previous three tours.

He'll be charged, most likely convicted, the possibility is there that he may get the death penalty. Discussing whether or not he should have been taken care of when he suffered his injury by the ones who send our soldiers to war, discussing whether a soldier who had already served three tours without incident then suffers a serious injury might have led to this atrocity, isn't going to change that.

Maybe more information will come out and we'll hear that he did have issues and problems even prior to his injury but for now I'm not just going to make things up, I'd prefer to just go on what we know.

JMHO

It has been leaked he had serious problems at the end of his last tour.

.......................................................

When the soldier returned from his last deployment in Iraq he had difficulty reintegrating, including marital problems, the source told ABC News, . But officials concluded that he had worked through those issues before deploying to Afghanistan.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - US Soldier Guns down 16 Afghan Civilians

 

[annalia]

It has been leaked he had serious problems at the end of his last tour.

.......................................................

When the soldier returned from his last deployment in Iraq he had difficulty reintegrating, including marital problems, the source told ABC News, . But officials concluded that he had worked through those issues before deploying to Afghanistan.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - US Soldier Guns down 16 Afghan Civilians

After he had the accident and suffered the brain injury?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

After he had the accident and suffered the brain injury?

Yes, the accident happened in Iraq.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I seriously think we are going to find out this guy had enough wrong with him he should have gotten out on a medical discharge. I would not be surprised to find out he was one of these guys from Madigan Hospital.

SEATTLE - The Army Medical Command has identified 285 Madigan Army Medical Center patients whose diagnoses of post-traumatic stress disorder were reversed as they went through a screening process for possible medical retirements, according to Sen. Patty Murray.

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/ptsd-reversed030812/ptsd-reversed030812/

 

[Candy_Pickletoes]

"For if you suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves and then punish them." Sir Thomas Moore Utopia

The military has a duty to take care of the soldiers we send to battle yet they discard them like the daily trash. Veterans living on the streets because they couldn't deal with the baggage they were carrying from war is a very sad reality.

Do I think this soldier should be punished? Absolutely, he should be punished to the fullest extent. Do I think the government/military should act the least bit surprised that it happened? No way, they know what they create, they know the damage done by tours of duty, yet they return people to war who they know darn well should have had an honorable discharge instead.

My father fought in Vietnam, he did three tours. He left a man who loved to be with his family, loved to hug his kids, beamed when he sat and watched us play on the floor. He returned an empty shell, one who left his kids, stole all of the money from the family, and hung up on his oldest daughter any time she tried to reach out to him. I didn't cry the day he died because he may as well have been dead when he got back from Vietnam. His soul was gone, he was nothing more than skin, bones, and a few organs to keep him alive.

War changes people. War molds people. It's not always in positive ways.

I am not surprised this happened. Saddened by it, yes...surprised by it, not for a moment.

JMHO

 

[hambirg]

"For if you suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves and then punish them." Sir Thomas Moore Utopia

The military has a duty to take care of the soldiers we send to battle yet they discard them like the daily trash. Veterans living on the streets because they couldn't deal with the baggage they were carrying from war is a very sad reality.

Do I think this soldier should be punished? Absolutely, he should be punished to the fullest extent. Do I think the government/military should act the least bit surprised that it happened? No way, they know what they create, they know the damage done by tours of duty, yet they return people to war who they know darn well should have had an honorable discharge instead.

My father fought in Vietnam, he did three tours. He left a man who loved to be with his family, loved to hug his kids, beamed when he sat and watched us play on the floor. He returned an empty shell, one who left his kids, stole all of the money from the family, and hung up on his oldest daughter any time she tried to reach out to him. I didn't cry the day he died because he may as well have been dead when he got back from Vietnam. His soul was gone, he was nothing more than skin, bones, and a few organs to keep him alive.

War changes people. War molds people. It's not always in positive ways.

I am not surprised this happened. Saddened by it, yes...surprised by it, not for a moment.

JMHO

:goodpost:

But officials concluded that he had worked through those issues before deploying to Afghanistan.

Uh. . . .obviously not! :banghead:

 

[Dr.Fessel]

And President Obama and Cameron beat the war drums about Iran, Syria and Afghanistan in a news conference and not one single reporter asked a question about the shooting.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Leon Panetta is so scared of our own Marines he makes them leave their arms outside while he talks to them.

.....................................................................................

There were clear concerns about security in the large tent at Camp Leatherneck where Panetta was slated to talk to troops.

Before Panetta came into the hall, Sgt. Maj. Brandon Hall told the more than 200 Marines in the room to take their weapons outside and leave them there. Afghan troops had already been told not to bring their guns in.

"Something has come to light," Hall told the troops. It was a highly unusual order, and some in the audience said they had never seen that happen before.

Asked about the order, Hall said all he knew was that "I was told to get the weapons out."

A U.S. defense official said the request was not a reaction to an immediate threat. Speaking on condition of anonymity to describe security procedures, the official said the base commander made the decision that no one would be allowed to bring in weapons.

The official said the decision was made out of respect for troops from other countries, such as the Afghans, who are never allowed to bring guns into an event. It was not a request from Panetta or his security team, the official said.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/...3-14/Afghanistan-Panetta-shootings/53521552/1

 

[jjenny]

I don't think that's an unreasonable request. Would you want to talk in front of a bunch of armed people? I wouldn't.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I don't think that's an unreasonable request. Would you want to talk in front of a bunch of armed people? I wouldn't.

They are in a War zone and he is the Defense Secretary. If he isn't safe with them armed then it is time for him to step down. He has lost all control and respect of his men if he does not feel safe with them.

 

[jjenny]

They are in a War zone and he is the Defense Secretary. If he isn't safe with them armed then it is time for him to step down. He has lost all control and respect of his men if he does not feel safe with them.

Considering he wasn't the one requesting this to begin with?

 

[MsFacetious]

It has been leaked he had serious problems at the end of his last tour.

.......................................................

When the soldier returned from his last deployment in Iraq he had difficulty reintegrating, including marital problems, the source told ABC News, . But officials concluded that he had worked through those issues before deploying to Afghanistan.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - US Soldier Guns down 16 Afghan Civilians

But we haven't heard anything about him having any issues BEFORE the brain injury.
I would expect him to struggle right after a brain injury which occurred during his 3rd tour.
But hey, don't worry. He is all better now! :banghead:

I guess "we've" asked for these problems by training people to be killing machines. (Yes, I know they are trained for far much more than that, as well.)

Perhaps their psyches cannot handle what they've seen, and have had to do but only within the rules of engagement...perhaps they feel said rules are too restrictive (enemy doesn't fight by any rules), and some of them snap and go outside, way way way outside, "the rules", including bringing violence home.

SIGH. Really tragic, all the way around.

You are right. Several of the suicides have occurred AFTER the soldier actually ASKED for treatment. Begged for it really... and were denied.
Then given orders to deploy again. They aren't getting treatment once they come home.

So you have a suicidal soldier begging for mental health treatment... or even a soldier with previous suicide attempts...
Your response is to say "Sorry dude, you are okay. We aren't going to treat you. But hey, we WILL send you back to a war zone!"

The soldier knew he couldn't handle deploying. Maybe he feared what he would do if he did. What else could the guy do except commit suicide?

Jared Hagemann: EIGHT previous deployments, begging for mental health treatment, ordered on a 9th deployment. Discussed suicide.
Committed suicide at JBLM.

Derrick Kirkland: 3 previous suicide attempts, begging for mental health treatment. Madigan hospital considered him low risk.
Committed suicide at JBLM.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/127623973.html

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/08/ap-5-apparent-soldier-suicides-at-jblm-since-july-081711/

It definitely happens at other bases. I can think of a couple of outrageous ones right now. I'm just posting JBLM because they are relevant. :twocents:

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Considering he wasn't the one requesting this to begin with?

I don't believe that for a minute. The minute he saw all those marines unarmed he should have told them to get their weapons if he did not order it. He has been there enough and knows how things are done.

It was a cowardly act to disarm them but then order them to work and live amongst each other armed.

..................................................................

“War is hell,” he said. “These kinds of events and incidents are going to take place, they’ve taken place in any war, they’re terrible events, and this is not the first of those events, and it probably will not be the last.” He added: “But we cannot allow these events to undermine our strategy.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/15/world/asia/panetta-visits-afghanistan-following-massacre.html

 

[hambirg]

I don't believe that for a minute. The minute he saw all those marines unarmed he should have told them to get their weapons if he did not order it. He has been there enough and knows how things are done.

It was a cowardly act to disarm them but then order them to work and live amongst each other armed.

..................................................................

“War is hell,” he said. “These kinds of events and incidents are going to take place, they’ve taken place in any war, they’re terrible events, and this is not the first of those events, and it probably will not be the last.” He added: “But we cannot allow these events to undermine our strategy.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/15/world/asia/panetta-visits-afghanistan-following-massacre.html

BBM

That literally makes me physically ill. You don't want to hear my interpretation of that statement right there.

 

[essies]

[video=youtube;7XU67f9phg0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XU67f9phg0[/video]
Judy Woodruff and The Washington Post's Craig Whitlock discuss what's known about the U.S. soldier who allegedly killed 16 Afghan civilians on Sunday.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

What Do We Know About Kandahar Killings Suspect? - YouTube
Judy Woodruff and The Washington Post's Craig Whitlock discuss what's known about the U.S. soldier who allegedly killed 16 Afghan civilians on Sunday.

Good report. They are questioning the PTSD coverup at the base hospital.

Bothers me though they are stating so much stuff in the first part of the video as fact just because the army has leaked it.

 

[legalmania]

I was watching a documentary the other day and a pawn broker was on and he said that parents are having to pawn some of their belongings to buy their young soldiers bullet proof jackets because the ones the army are handing out are used and falling apart. One parent said he had to buy his son a helmet because the one they gave him didn't fit right and they wouldn't give him one that did. Stories like this should not be happening. The least we can do is properly give our soldiers the right gear and the right medical treatment. I would gladly pay more taxes if I knew the money would be used for that. I think all soldiers should have to talk to a therapist before they are released. They should have access to a group they can join when they get home, so they can have individual as well as group therapy.